Omenbringer

Well the common ones are the static value resolution system of the non-fated versus the random value generation system for the fated. The issue is most noticeable at the lower and higher ends of the non-fated ranking. Another is the designed to end aspect which usually occurs just about the time the fated are becoming real players in Malifaux. The last (which has gotten a hell of a lot better as more supplements have been published, well deserved credit to the new developers) is the magic system. In regards to the first, there have been many good suggestions on how to address this with minimal change to the core system. Some don't view it as a huge issue, others see it as a major design flaw. I lean toward the latter, particularly if your group contains a "munchkin" or two who like to game the system (this can also be accomplished inadvertently) or you would like to include Henchman or higher ranked non-fated in your games. The sweet spot for encounters is really at the enforcer level where the non-fated's static value is close to the average value generated by the fated's random resolution system. The second is probably the easiest to alter requiring little more than allowing the party of fated to continue beyond the resolution of the last destiny step or advanced pursuit step for the group. A lot of the initial issues with this was likely attributable to players rushing destiny steps, however some of it probably originates from misconceptions from Malifaux. Fated, even kitted out and at the end of their destiny steps, never really feel on par with Henchman or Master ranked non-fated. The static resolution system, in my opinion, is the biggest contributor to this sentiment. And finally the Magic system. if you only own the first two books it is more than a bit lacking in detail. As more supplements have been published this has become much less of an issue (though increased costs is almost always a turn off for those interested in trying a new game). While I like TtB, if for no other reason than it greatly expands the details of Malifaux (which was once left to vague innuendo and the communities assumptions) I do feel it is better suited as a story telling game as opposed to combat oriented one (White Wolf's World of Darkness series of RPG's is similar in this regard). Players coming from Malifaux tend to be the hardest on the system as there is a bit of an expectation that the game have a more combat oriented focus. If a player strongly favors combat in TtB it tends to place the fatemaster into a much more adversarial role where higher ranked non-fated are utilized to provide a suitable challenge (this is a bit of a double edged sword as it can also showcase the issues with the static resolution values of the non-fated versus the random values of the fated). By no means am I saying the system can't function, I am saying it leaves a bit to be desired in that venue. TtB tends to be more of a connoisseurs game than say pathfinder, D&D, or similarly combat focused systems. Like with most games, setting the players expectations early can be a major key in the success of the game.

TtB has been difficult to get started up in NE Ohio as well (Pathfinder seems to be king), however I think that may change. The Into the Bayou book is the first in the series that really felt like a "Faction" book to me. The others really didn't provide that feeling, though did provide plenty of source material for the game world. Hopefully that trend (of producing books that are more representative of a Malifaux Faction) continues with future books. Unfortunately TtB has some features that sour a lot of gamers, many of which are correctable by the fate masters through modification (many have also been recommended in this subsection).

My wishes are simple: A master for Sparks, The Mechanized Porkchop, and the Survivors. (Gremlin Arcanist, that can utilize Scrap Markers). A henchman that turns dying Bayou Gremlins into low cost summoned spirits or undead. An upgrade that allows Giant Skeeters to Cast Sooey!, returning their previous edition use as Air Traffic Controllers.

I am not saying that my experiences trump any ones, generally I try to view things from multiple perspectives. Those few that have posted battle reports where they were successful against her (and also not reliant upon either an "Ah Ha moment" or a RJ damage spike) have been very helpful to the discussion. Again Reva is beatable, that doesn't mean she isn't outside the power curve and in possible need of re-evaluation. In an ultra competitive environment Reva may be seen as fine, in a more casual environment she (and a few other ultra-optimized lists) can be an extremely NPE. To each their own.

May I just ask that all of you who are either posting from memory or posting without having actually played against Reva please abstain. The former just leads to confusion and a high noise to signal ratio that really diminishes the discussion As for the latter I assure you actually playing against Reva, particularly in the hands of a half way competent player, is a lot different than simply interpreting her cards.

Just for clarification I assume you mean after Toshiro (or something else) has killed the Corpse Candle that he can then attempt to summon an Ashigaru from the resulting Corpse Marker if you have the Command the Graves upgrade attached to him? Corpse Candles and Mindless Zombies are only considered Corpse Markers to friendly models, not opponents models.

Keep in mind the Woodland Scenics Water Effect is not a "whole surface" product. It is intended to produce mainly "rough" or "falling" water effects. In short it accents other products. The other two woodland scenics products are better for covering large expanses of water. The Realistic Water is a "wet" product that is pretty good over a painted subsurface that creates the illusion of depth, though not good for projects where you want actual depth. E-Z Water is a "hot" product and while it dries very quickly it can peel paint from the edges as it cools. It is better for creating "deep" water pieces, particularly swamp effects as it does have a slight yellow tint to it. Be sure to get a dedicated pan to melt it in cause it is exceedingly difficult to remove without damaging. Probably the best product for creating somewhat deep water effects is Envirotex Lite. It is a two part mixture that creates a durable surface and water with some depth. You do need to be careful with the measurements as too much of one will causes issues drying. It does also take a while to dry, and unfortunately it is also a bit of an expensive product. If you want depth though there isn't much that really beats it (you can pour several layers to really provide depth if you want). The cheapest option that also produces decent results (if you are just looking to make the water areas look wet, i.e. no actual depth) is to use Liquitex Gloss Medium (or equivalent) over a painted subsurface (gradated from light at the edges to darker in the middle). It will also dry a lot faster than the other stuff, except for Woodland Scenics E-Z Water.

So your thinking is that experienced players (some of whom have played the game from the start and assisted in closed play testing for Malifaux) can not anticipate Reva's shtick and prepare appropriate counters? Reva is not that gimmicky, she is exceedingly good at what she does and is very straightforward in design. Seeing it coming doesn't mean that you will be able to counter it. Speaking historically these same defenses were made with 1st edition Hamelin when only a month after release the community noticed he was significantly above the power curve (it is worth mentioning that virtually every one of the recommended "fixes" was adopted when he was finally errated years later). The wait and see approach didn't work then and it is unlikely to work now. The "bleating" as you call it is coming primarily from the US/ UK communities because those are the largest organized communities and also happen to have fairly experienced and competitive scenes. It might also have to do with the fact that both those communities are normal purchasers of pre-release products. Additionally many of the "bleeters" have actually played against Reva in games rather than simply looked at her stats on line or in the book. As I have stated many times, while comparisons to Rasputina or the Viks (or any other Master) might seem relevant they really aren't, Reva doesn't require support models or Upgrades to do what she does. When you add those support models and upgrades however she is really ramped up. Reva also doesn't suffer from many of the disadvantages that the other comparison models do, particularly Rasputina. As for the Dreamer, his summoning is hardly "no resources," he requires an expensive upgrade in order to summon anything other than Daydreams. He requires a suit, it has a high TN, the summoned model comes in with only 1 Wd, and also gives the Dreamer a Waking +1 condition which can take him out of the rotation if it gets high enough. Additionally, as you point out it also usually requires a few stones and cards to do consistently, those are resources and in the case of Soul Stones one which does not replenish (normally). Lelu-and Lilitu is also a 14 SS investment unless you summon them, which of course requires an 11+ with suit requirement (so either SS or sacrifice of a Daydream), 2 AP to summon the pair, gives the Dreamer the Waking +2 condition, and they both are vulnerable until they can heal on their activation. You can disagree that Reva is outside the games power curve but that is in no way any more valid than others opinions that she is. I tend to favor the group stating she is, as they are providing a bit more clarity on why they think so than the other argument that essentially boils it down to "learn how to play."

Wyrd has done a much better job with the new plastic releases than the older ones. Assembly is much more intuitive and clear. Cuts and joins are better positioned. And finally, event the small pieces are thought out. The Mechanized Porkchop I put together last night was a breeze despite having the ears as separate small pieces.

If you haven't started your cobbles yet I have two suggestions that will make it a bit easier. The first, is to get a couple lengths of brass tube from a model railroad or RC hobby store. I would recommend a few different widths. Cut these lengths into pieces about 5" long, this should allow double what you purchased. Grab all the cut lengths and hold them together. Then wrap the bunch with tape or rubber bands. Throw some taoe on one end as well for padding. Now you will have a neat little "punch" for making your cobbles. The second method is one that I use as it is so easy and time saving. Go to the grocery store and by a few bags of lintel beans. Buy a big jug of wood glue. Paint the wood glue on the surface you want cobbled and then pour the lintels on top. Once it dries go back and apply another layer of wood glue, though this time water it down a bit. Quick and easy, plus it looks great. I can link you to some photos of the end result. The biggest problem with using this method is it can curl your base material if it isn't strong enough but you shouldn't have to worry about that at all.

Looks like you have a really good start there for both Som'er and Ulix. I might recommend another box of Bayou Gremlins though, there are times you will have more than 4 on the table. Also agree that your purchases will provide both Masters with great options. The Stuffed Piglets are nice but I am not a fan of them with the Pigapult, they come with an awful lot of downsides compared to just the regular piglet ammo.

You do some wonderful work. Hard to identify a favorite.

I love the 18" by 18" floor tiles for the base boards. Cheap, durable, light, and easy to transport. Might I suggest felt for the backing instead of paper. It greatly aids in keeping the boards from slipping around.

Raspy has to worry about many things that Reva ignores, chief among them is cover, a close second would be engagements. Also I don't think Reva's Charge shenanigans have really been fully explored yet for full potency. I suspect that there is some really nasty potential there as well but of course why risk exposing her to harm when she is so effective from distance. And you forgot Reva's 0 Action which is also damaging though is more dependent upon her succeeding well for damage (not affected by Hard or Impossible to Wound either). The Vik sling shot is not a single model interaction, Reva's is. Again I am not stating she is unbeatable. I am saying she is substantially above the power curve and needs some more attention before general release (this is an issue with a hard publication date, short play test cycles, and a ton of models to test). Also consider that many are trying the recommendations that have been posted here, perhaps some positive battle reports will begin showing up. I am however sensing that this thread is nearing its inevitable nadir where sides dig in and nothing constructive happens. If you think there is nothing wrong with Reva and that everything will pan out in the wash, that is cool, others disagree and would prefer it be addressed. I consider this discussion to have been productive regardless but will be departing it.

I appreciate the tenor in which you posted. The first point I feel are the crux of the issue. Errata-ing Reva soon, before her general release is perferable to later when there are many more cards in circulation. The second point, well some I agree with and some I do not. Leaving a problem model (and yes Levi has been a problem since first edition and was even pushed back a book in second edition) is not a good option. If simply possessing a model can make players leery of playing you that is not good for the community or for Wyrd (this applies whether we are talking about Reva or Rotten Belles or Guild Austringers). Problem models need to be addressed, obvious game imbalances work against community building. Also a "pre-release" model (or any model honestly) shouldn't come with the expectation that things will never change, especially if the model is skewing the power curve substantially. While I don't think anyone is arguing for a subscription service (one of the reasons I am no longer interested in Dark Age), we don't want the other extreme either where you have to purchase the newest stuff to have a decent chance of winning (i.e. a lot of card games and Games Workshops model). Malifaux's big selling point was the low cost of entry and the "character" of the game. I would hazard the opinion that most of us got into it because of the aesthetics of one particular crew and not because we knew they were the most competitive option. It is in Wyrd's best interest to insure their game has a relative balance that is as close to perfect as possible. This sells more of their models and assists in recouping those production costs. Not doing so hampers sales. As always my opinion. I am sure Wyrd is watching these threads and discussing things behind the scenes. As I have said previously it is our job as a community to identify issues, it is Wyrds job to figure out what to do about them.

I did not have that experience. All the glues I used took a long time to form a solid bond that would not come apart. I also utilized the rubber bands and temporary substructures to keep the buildings from collapsing while the glue set to get the best fits (and no gaps). Perhaps my pieces had more mold release on them, I don't know. What I can say for sure is that the curves did not help with construction, adhesion, or gap reduction. It was most difficult in the smaller Train Halt than it was in the larger Train Station.

If you recall many of those posts about Perdita's brokenness were from players utilizing the extreme low end of the terrain recommendations (25% as opposed to the higher 50% from the 2-player starter). Even on tables utilizing the high end of the terrain recommendations (70% coverage with 1/3 blocking and 1/3 cover providing) Reva doesn't suffer. I would be curious to hear how exactly you cope with a 22" threat range and minimum damage 3 across 3 Attack actions which can target the lower of WP or Df while also having a high acting value that bypasses cover and can nullify a lot of defensive tech. Particularly with your scheme runners who are there to score your VP. Many of the suggestions in this thread just don't pan out in actual play. Reva has a panoply of advantages and virtually no disadvantages, this is unlike any of the masters she has been compared to.

I would really hope Wyrd does listen to the internet wisdom as it has discovered many of the broken interactions for Malifaux (both editions) and also offered many of the final "official" fixes (often within a few weeks of release/ observation). While I will conceded that often cries of "broken" or "OP" are thrown around with way to little merit (often due to omissions or misunderstandings of the rules) not all of them are unwarranted. Many of the posters have been playing Malifaux for years (and also play tested for the game at various points). Just because a model hasn't been out long or is straightforward doesn't meant that players can't see that it is above the power curve substantially. Reva does not equal Rasputina. Rasputina has many disadvantages while using her Ice Mirrors that Reva doesn't suffer from. Reva doesn't care about cover, Rasputina does. Reva can bypass Defensive Stance by targeting WP instead, Rasputina can not. Reva can create her own nodes for no AP expenditure, Rasputina can not. Reva's nodes are tied to an 18" bubble (nearly the entire board if she is near the middle), Rasputina's are tied to a 10" bubble. Reva is Ht 3 so can see more than Rasputina who is Ht 2. Reva can use her nodes as long as she can see them, Rasputina can only use them if she can see them and they are not engaged. Reva attacks through her nodes at full value all the time and can always use her triggers through them, Rasputina must attach an expensive upgrade to be able to do that and the triggers are at a - value. Reva has a much higher minimum damage; meaning she can rely on simply hitting a target rather than Rasputina who wants to hit well and trigger to equal Reva's damage output. Also despite what common wisdom on the forums is stating, Reva is not a fragile little waif that falls easily, she has good resist values and also an extremely long threat range that keeps her out of the direct fight while still allowing her to influence it. Also consider that getting to Rasputina shuts down the majority of her offensive bite (leaving only a 0 action for attacking), getting to Reva just means she doesn't have to rely on her nodes to deliver her aggression. Lastly, while there are models that can remove Corpse Markers, they are usually in a small radius, require AP expenditure, and do nothing to stop Reva's Corpse Candle or Mindless Zombie mobile nodes (as they are only Considered Corpse Markers for Friendly models). Emissaries, particularly the Arcane and the Carrion have been complained about long before Reva was spoiled, especially Shards of Nythera. Both of those Emissaries pack a lot of potency for their cost. We will just have to disagree on the last paragraph as Ressers without Reva are hardly a gimped or noncompetitive faction. I would also caution against assuming that Wyrd intended Reva to be this potent, many overly potent interactions can and have slipped through play testing over the years (when you have this many models it is inevitable, variations in play tester skill also plays a large role). It is our job as a community to mention them, it is Wyrd's job to address them. While many are calling for a "wait and see" approach, historically speaking this has done nothing other than sour new potential players to the game (because it really showcases the imbalances between crews), causes communities to ban the models (already happening), and finally just prolongs the required fixes (many of which are provided by the community within weeks of release). It is worth mentioning that even Reva players are talking about her potency and the need to dial it down, so it isn't simply a sour grapes discussion. Is she the worst, that is debatable (I personally place Sandeep above Reva). Is she the only one that is above the power curve, definitely not. This is why many in the community have called for a dramatic slowing of the new model releases. Each successive book makes things more exponentially more difficult to catch and balance (even a relative factional balance) nearly impossible. As always these are my thoughts and no more or less valued than anyone elses. The discussion is the important piece for Wyrd.

I have used Zap-a-gap, Gale Force Nine, Super Glue, and Gorilla Glue. When I had such little success with these I also tried plastic glue.

Yes Reva can make 6 Corpse Candels (7 if she attaches the upgrade allowing for another free one in turn ones initiative phase). She also typically hires the Carrion Emissary who adds another per turn and don't forget the Shield Bearers also drop one when they die the first time. Yes she can also move them where she needs them or just summon a Corpse Candle where she needs it (though this is at a closer range it still extends her touch out to over 12"). When facing enemies that also use Corpse Counters Maniacal Laugh helps a lot, Mindless Zombies (and Corpse Candles) are only Corpse Counters to Friendly models, they have to be killed before your opponent can use them. Shards does a lot more for Reva than the Ice Pillars or Flame Wall does for their crews, precisely because they add the Mindless Zombie. That is another activation and a mobile attack node for Reva in addition to also providing an obstacle for your opponent to negotiate. The double Pillars also limits the friendly crew in a lot of circumstances. Getting to her with enough to really cripple her is the crux of the issue. She has a very long threat range and there are very few models that can reach her and still have enough AP to do anything significant. So she is not OP because your opponent made some poor placements with their Corpse Candle and Shards of Nythera? Also for a "Fragile" model I am surprised it took so long to kill Reva with Ironsides. Now if you could do it consistently then I might give it some credence.

Straight forward play style has very little to do with it. The same could be said about Perdita and Lady Justice and yet neither of them have any where near the potency Reva does. Effectively playing against her requires specific factions (some just don't have the tools or are extremely susceptible to her shtick), specific models (which limits your other options), and favorable Strats/ Schemes. Even then the Reva player is hardly neutered, more like on even terms. We will just have to agree to disagree on when addressing Reva should be done. When Wyrd used the "wait and see" approach with 1st edition Hamelin (also identified as a problem soon after release) it wasn't good for the communities. I would think addressing it before she hits general release would be preferable to after when more cards are in circulation and it is more difficult.

The glues I used (and I tried several different types and brands) did not bond instantly or strongly unless I used the Rubber bands to hold everything in place.

Gremlins are an extremely poor choice against Reva. With their propensity to hurt themselves and her ability to target Wp or Df with a high minimum damage, it wouldn't be unreasonable for Reva alone to remove 3-4 Gremlins a turn in a summon factory. While I agree that additional clarification (i.e. a picture of the board) would be nice, I don't think even the high side of terrain recommendation (70% from the 2-player starter booklet with 1/3 LOS blocking) really effects her a whole lot. Below is a graphic representation of Reva's reach if positioned at the center of the table; This is a board from the Malifaux 2e Vassal Module. There is plenty of Ht 3+ Blocking terrain on the board and it is near the high end of terrain recommendations. The part of Reva is being played by Lucas McCabe since a Reva Marker is not present in the Vassal Module yet. The inner shaded portion (purplish) is the range of her AP free Corpse Candle Summon from Forgotten Dead. The outer shaded area (grayish) is the maximum range of Strength of the Fallen. Many of the Gremlins have been placed completely out of Reva's LOS and yet she can target them with Ethereal Reaping Attack Actions through the corpse counter Nodes nearby. So while she may not be able to attack the entirety of the board due to LOS blocking terrain elements, she still easily dominates the scoring areas of the board. Pushing her back behind that Ht 5 hazardous terrain would protect her from LOS from that lower right quarter and yet still allow dominance of the majority of the table. Pushing her to the left or down and behind the Ht 2 crates would provide her Hard Cover (:-fate on both attack and damage) and not inhibit her board presence much. In another thread about Reva there are a lot of comparisons to Rasputina and how she has a similar threat range. While the comparison to Rasputina is understandable, consider that Reva can easily drop a Corpse Marker node where she needs it (for no AP expenditure) while Rasputina has to depend on friendly pre-positioned Frozen Heart models (that also can not be engaged with an enemy model), can not declare triggers when noding unless she also attaches her 3 SS upgrade, and really has no method of replacing them if they are killed (sure she can use her 1 AP December's Touch Tactical Action to give a model Frozen Heart but that is then 1 less AP she has for the activation). Lastly, while Rasputina has the Overpower trigger, so could potentially generate more attack actions, these require a suit and success, are also actions (so Cover modifiers apply), have lower minimum damage, and always target Df (so Defensive Stance can help). Reva doesn't care about Cover and can bypass Defensive Stance by targeting Wp instead. Her minimum damage is also higher meaning she can concern herself with just hitting and worry less about hitting particularly well. Finally, while Reva's triggers are nice she doesn't really depend upon them like Rasputina does.

Mine are greenish brown (a more ruddy look). My recipe uses Citadel Base Paint Death World Forest (over a black primer) followed by Citadel Shade Seraphim Sepia. After that I pull out the highlights with Citadel Layer Paint Elysian Green.

While she is similar to Rasputina, she is at least an order of magnitude away from her. Reva has higher defense, higher Willpower, and vastly superior mobility. Rasputina has to be with in 10" of the Frozen Heart model, Reva has 18" to any corpse marker. Rasputina also can not create Frozen Heart models for free like Reva can (by Free I mean without expending AP). Rasputina's damage is also significantly lower than Reva's and doesn't have the ability to target either Wp or Df. Blasts are nice but you have to hit the required level to generate them meaning you want to hit well, Reva just needs to hit (outside of her 0 Action where you want to hit well for more damage). Lastly, while Reva doesn't have walls on her card, that big Carrion Emissary that is extremely likely to be traveling with her does and also provides a Mindless Zombie for Reva to use as a Corpse node for freezy's. Non-corpse generating crews don't really slow Reva down, she doesn't struggle to generate more than she needs. I will agree with both of your last statements however. No she is not unbeatable (anyone can have an off day), but consistently achieving victory against her really does require a specific anti-Reva crew build, favorable Strats/Schemes, and good play (much more so than the Reva player who can just do her thing).