Math Mathonwy

Technically the Fate Modifiers section on Damage doesn't even tell you what to do with those modifiers so I think that it is a safe bet to refer back to the flips part which does tell you to pick one card as the active one. Note that the Fate Modifiers section under Flips begins with "Normally a player flips one card when performing a duel or a flip..." so a damage flip falls under that part quite nicely. The point of contention here seems to be twofold with a bonus: 1) Is flipping additional cards flipping cards? Which seems kinda clear-cut to me but whatever. And 2) Does "When a model flips a card" only refer to the active card or to all cards that have been flipped. Which is a more legitimate question that I can honestly see going either way and I really don't see a watertight interpretation one way or the other based on just the rules text. Especially if one considers other abilities as well. And finally, bonus) if number 2) goes a certain way, are Lawyers really stupid? Which is a bit of a silly question as obviously they aren't that stupid (does someone legitimately think that there is going to be a FAQ entry that says that yes, you get all the status effects from the flipped cards?) but, again, whatever.

Of course not - you take the active card and use that one for damage the same as you take the active card and use that for a duel. You do flip the other cards but you don't set them active. I'd agree with Solkan in that the Lawyer (and similar others) are written wrong.

Your argument is (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the shorthand isn't "ram card"? It produces a single active card. You flip several cards and have several cards flipped. "Whenever flips" is consistent with the latter. All this is IMO extremely obvious from the quotes I gave.

But how did you get the three cards that you choose from? You flipped them. According to the book's nomenclature, at least. From page 27: "[modifiers] force a model to flip additional cards", "the models will flip one card plus one additional card for each...", "the maximum number of cards a model may flip is four", "once all cards are flipped, the model chooses one to use as its active card." It consistently speaks of flipping the additional cards. "Whenever this model flips a ..." uses the same language. "Whenever this model chooses a as an active card in a duel" would be consistent with your POV. Lucky Draw works on cards flipped during Duels.

As noted, I don't think that Lucky Draw is interested in which card you finally choose as the result but it is interested in the cards that you flip. And according to the rules text on the twists, you flip additional cards. I can quote that passage if you want but I don't think that that is your contention.

But the thing we are discussing is the positive/negative twists (to use the 1st ed term) and there it talks about flipping the additional cards.

But that part hasn't yet gotten to the and and there it talks about flipping additional cards. You naturally get only a single suit and a single number for the duel but Lucky Draw isn't talking about the result but about flipping.

If the Blood Vik is Buried, Aionus can give her Slow which might help a tiny bit?

Yeah, Roosters are fine balance-wise. I wish they were just a tiny bit less likely to backfire but if you pack Pushes they are nice. I think that anything that obsoletes Roosters (Burt) is too powerful, not Roosters being too weak.

A counter point was presented in the form of The Guild Lawyer: (1) OBJECTION!!! (Ca 6 / Rst: Wp / Rg: 1): Target suffers 2/2/2 damage. If Moderate damage is flipped or cheated target gains Slow, or Paralyzed in the case of Severe. I don't think that anyone would argue that if you are doing damage at a and flip a severe and a weak, the target is Paralyzed.

Lucky Effigy can give this Condition: "Lucky Draw: Whenever this model flips a in a duel, it may immediately heal 1 damage." If the model with a Condition has suffered four damage and then has for a duel and flips 12, 11, and 2 does the model heal two as it flipped two Rams cards even though it is forced to choose the two of crows? Also, does the model heal when flipping a Red Joker? I'm guessing that the answer to both questions is yes, it heals in both cases. But there was some discussion about this one in a game today.

No idea what these would be but:

Has anyone come up with especially useful uses for this one, btw? I mean, it naturally depends on terrain and strat quite a bit but are there NB Minions or Enforcers who would in general really love From the Shadows?

Yeah, not to mention Incorporeal Henchmen/Masters with seven or more wounds, any Master with 14 wounds, and so on and so forth, but I think that Panzerharris' point was that being able to threaten with 14 damage is a potent threat even when it doesn't materialize which I agree with.

I can't think of many models that wouldn't flinch (other than any Gremlin with Stilts, natch!) but I can think of several dozen models who can survive it with extreme certainty (anything with HtK, for one). Most of them would prefer not taking it in the face, though, so I think that the point kinda stands.

Not quite sure whether you meant that by factoring in the base size but note that Leap isn't Place (it's a Move that ignores terrain and models) so the base size doesn't really matter - other than as a possible hindrance, basically, in that you might not be able to cover the whole distance due to terrain/models being in the way of where you wanted to land. I agree with Paddywhack on Crooked Men - they are really close to being fine. That Paralyze Trigger is crazy nasty and often forces the opponent to cheat high in fear of you having a suitable Crows in hand when a Crooked Man attacks something juicy.

If they dropped the damage but gave non-Trigger-Slow (or gave the attack the gun icon and took away to positive), BoP could give additional Triggers to Tomes and Rams (give out Fragile, take the Action again against a different target) or give his Summoning the Masks baked in or something. Lots of options.

Huh? He may have a better damage track but the way Moon Shinobis treat negative modifiers (which are extremely common in damage flips) certainly edges them over Sparks in my books. Have you used Moon Shinobis lately, out of interest?

Ant Hoult (one of the most accomplished UK players) thought (maybe still does but this was before Wave 4) that Dead Rider is the Ressers' best beatstick. There was a thread about it.

I've suggested Embalmed before and still think that it would be fine. Even the name fits!

Double post.

Basically reinforcing your point, but note that Wesley can cast Brewie's actions only once per turn so it's just one modifier per activation. I have had a Nurse put Downers on a Moon Shinobi and use one to hold up a choke point extremely well keeping half the enemy crew occupied but that is expensive, complex, and cannot be done using Brewmaster. (And most of the time the Nurse is better used just for Paralyzing enemies.) I do very much agree that Moon Shinobis could do with a bit of a boost and especially when taken with Brewmaster.

I seriously love this one. It's just a very, very nice design. I wonder if we'll see someone painting the model according to the colour scheme used in that art, though! A shame there was no "making of" video as it would've been interesting to see how all that texturing was made.

I never had the 13 of Masks on hand on turn one and when I did get it on later turns I had a plan for it which I felt was better than getting a Changeling. But I do agree with you that it certainly isn't an automatic no-go even if it might seem like a "waste" to go so much above the TN. I'm really hoping that my luck turns around! I haven't been all that disappointed with the Emissary, actually, even losing out on the Changelings. She's a tricky piece to use but quite versatile. I think that she is the best designed Emissary of the bunch, actually. Shadow is obviously more powerful but Mysterious offers different things to different Masters and is quite simply just a whole lot of fun. Good but not OP.

I've had five games now with the Emissary and I have never succeeded in Summoning even one Changeling In one Collodi game I spent all possible Actions on the first turn trying to Summon even one and failed (that's going through over 20 card without hitting the TN). I've never had a Mask high enough in hand during the first three turns barring a 13 or Red Joker which I haven't used for a Changeling. ...it might just be that I've been ridiculously unlucky.