Fighting Jack Daw

[Ray]

Having some trouble fighting against Jack Daw. I play mostly Levi and was wondering if you guys have any tips or ideas on some better minions, henchmen or enforcers that I could bring to out scheme Jacky. 

[RiotX]

I play Jack Daw quite a bit, what type of trouble are you running into against him? 

[Ray]

Between his pull using jakanaume and Hazardous, to simply out damaging me, I seem to lose models very quickly against Jacky. Add a canny use of Johan, Nurse and Old Magic, I can't seem to do enough damage to negate his effectiveness. I basically lose control over the engagements. I'm thinking Hannah may be a good shout considering she's a Construct and nullifies all built in suites thus preventing a lot of Jacky's curses from proccing. Are there any efficient models in the Outcast pool that is able to nullify Jack from the get go?

[Cedar]

Trappers with their  to attack flips are good counter against Jack, same as Wokou riders, although you must remember about his guillotine injustice. 

Edit: In case of Hamelin, rat kings are free units that simply wrecks him.

[Ray]

9 hours ago, Cedar said:

Trappers with their  to attack flips are good counter against Jack, same as Wokou riders, although you must remember about his guillotine injustice. 

Edit: In case of Hamelin, rat kings are free units that simply wrecks him.

I haven't quite tried the Wokou Raiders in a Levi crew yet. They would make good up field solutions I suppose and be another good anchor for the Waif. I'm definitely gonna bring the Sapper against most masters with Levi. 

Are there other models that I'm not seeing that have similar abilities or effects that help cancel out a lot of Jack's suits? I can only think of Hannah. 

[Virtus]

The Freikorps Librarian can also remove suits.

[daniello_s]

Anything with  attack flips and targeting Df is his abomination - Trapper, Convict Gunslinger, Sue, etc.

[Ray]

10 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Anything with  attack flips and targeting Df is his abomination - Trapper, Convict Gunslinger, Sue, etc.

Thanks for this. Alrighty, I'm going to finish up Sue and the Wokou raiders before Saturday. Haha

[Richard matthews]

23 hours ago, Ray said:

Between his pull using jakanaume and Hazardous, to simply out damaging me, I seem to lose models very quickly against Jacky. Add a canny use of Johan, Nurse and Old Magic, I can't seem to do enough damage to negate his effectiveness. I basically lose control over the engagements. I'm thinking Hannah may be a good shout considering she's a Construct and nullifies all built in suites thus preventing a lot of Jacky's curses from proccing. Are there any efficient models in the Outcast pool that is able to nullify Jack from the get go?

You've got it anything that make his suits and triggers harder and can negate his negatives, I run jackdaw almost exclusively, Sue s very good against him as positive to attacks and with return fire and man in black it makes him good against all casters

[Seadhna]

If you have anything that forces simple Df duels (like, say, Abominations, Deso Engine or A&D and then Ashen Core) on his measly Df 4, you'll find that he's very easy to put down.

Other notable things are blasts onto nearby models (see Hannah or Lazarus) and henchmen with good attack stats spending Soulstones to hit (see Rusty Alyce).

Without his in-built suits to give out/rip off curses Jack's damage output will plummet (see Hannah or Librarian).

A damaged Mad Dog will also shotgun Jackie to final repose very quickly.

Otherwise, just use the Focus action and shoot his face

 

The trick to getting rid of Jack himself is downing him before a Nurse gets to heal him up again.

Then, it's activation control: he kinda likes expensive models, so a little bit of summoning won't hurt. To help you Levi players out there, Jack's thematic crew all have low Wp, so a Levi with Desolate Soul can have very favourable trades of turning Jaakuna Ubume or Guilty into Abominations.

[Ray]

3 hours ago, Seadhna said:

If you have anything that forces simple Df duels (like, say, Abominations, Deso Engine or A&D and then Ashen Core) on his measly Df 4, you'll find that he's very easy to put down.

Other notable things are blasts onto nearby models (see Hannah or Lazarus) and henchmen with good attack stats spending Soulstones to hit (see Rusty Alyce).

Without his in-built suits to give out/rip off curses Jack's damage output will plummet (see Hannah or Librarian).

A damaged Mad Dog will also shotgun Jackie to final repose very quickly.

Otherwise, just use the Focus action and shoot his face

 

The trick to getting rid of Jack himself is downing him before a Nurse gets to heal him up again.

Then, it's activation control: he kinda likes expensive models, so a little bit of summoning won't hurt. To help you Levi players out there, Jack's thematic crew all have low Wp, so a Levi with Desolate Soul can have very favourable trades of turning Jaakuna Ubume or Guilty into Abominations.

Thanks Seadha! I wish this came in just a little sooner. The player who plays Daw in my area is a particularly good player hence why I was looking for tips and advise. I played wrongly and lost badly in my first game, losing me the third position in the tournament. Ah well! There will be next time! 

[Harrower]

Jack is one of the most versatile Outcasts masters;  but Jack is key to much of that flexibility.  As others have intimated, kill Jack or put him under significant pressure and it significantly increases your chances

[Bakunin]

On 7/22/2017 at 3:59 PM, Seadhna said:

To help you Levi players out there, Jack's thematic crew all have low Wp, so a Levi with Desolate Soul can have very favourable trades of turning Jaakuna Ubume or Guilty into Abominations.

Not to disagree with any of the other points, but aren't Hanged Wp 7? Or were you just referring to the boxed set models?

[Seadhna]

40 minutes ago, Bakunin said:

Not to disagree with any of the other points, but aren't Hanged Wp 7? Or were you just referring to the boxed set models?

Mostly to his box set, X7, Jaakuna Ubume and some models that are good with him.

[Bakunin]

I'd argue his thematic crew is anything that's Tormented. Which have the following Wp:

7 - Jack Daw, Hanged

6 - Drowned, Crooked Men

5 - Jaakuna, The Seven

4 - Nurses,  Papa, Guilty, Montresor, Ligeia 

So I wouldn't say all of his thematic crew have low Wp, just about half of them. If the issue is Jaakuna and the Drowned, then they have average to good Wp.

[Seadhna]

On 27/07/2017 at 6:46 PM, Bakunin said:

I'd argue his thematic crew is anything that's Tormented. Which have the following Wp:

7 - Jack Daw, Hanged

6 - Drowned, Crooked Men

5 - Jaakuna, The Seven

4 - Nurses,  Papa, Guilty, Montresor, Ligeia 

So I wouldn't say all of his thematic crew have low Wp, just about half of them. If the issue is Jaakuna and the Drowned, then they have average to good Wp.

technically you're right, but hiring Drowned or Hanged is somewhat of a handicap tbh

[Bakunin]

Hanged are a handicap? Sure, I'd rarely if ever take more than one, but it hardly seems like self-sabotage.

[Adran]

On 29/07/2017 at 10:22 PM, Seadhna said:

technically you're right, but hiring Drowned or Hanged is somewhat of a handicap tbh

I don't really agree that drowned are a handicap. 

They are very hard to kill once they get engaged with models. 

[Seadhna]

2 hours ago, Adran said:

I don't really agree that drowned are a handicap. 

They are very hard to kill once they get engaged with models. 

It's all personal experience, I guess. 

For me neither Drowned nor Hanged have served any particular role on the table.

Hanged are control pieces, but Nurses and Jack himself do it better. Hanged's wound-halving attack isn't doing much against armored targets and suboptimal against any model with less than 9 Wd.

Drowned are objective-holders, but Johan does the same for same cost, while Guilty do the same for less.

Then again, I'm not pretending to deliver universal wisdom, it's just how they work for me in my meta and with my playstyle.

[Davos]

On 7/19/2017 at 9:39 AM, Ray said:

 I'm thinking Hannah may be a good shout considering she's a Construct and nullifies all built in suites thus preventing a lot of Jacky's curses from proccing. 

Hannah is not a Construct, fyi.  Though the nether flux is really nice, its saved me more times than I can count against other masters/models.  I've never faced Daw but I'd imagine its useful to strip all of his builtin, cause in looking at his card, his attacks really aren'tgood without the triggers/suits.  

[Freman]

Fighting Jack Daw is a good name for a boxer.

[Bakunin]

18 hours ago, Seadhna said:

It's all personal experience, I guess. 

For me neither Drowned nor Hanged have served any particular role on the table.

Hanged are control pieces, but Nurses and Jack himself do it better. Hanged's wound-halving attack isn't doing much against armored targets and suboptimal against any model with less than 9 Wd.

Drowned are objective-holders, but Johan does the same for same cost, while Guilty do the same for less.

Then again, I'm not pretending to deliver universal wisdom, it's just how they work for me in my meta and with my playstyle.

Hanged force tons of Horror Tests, something which Jack and Nurses don't have, and the trigger on Whispers From beyond shuts down crews with lots of healing. Whispers isn't their only attack as well.

I would rather have Crooked Men for scheming and holding stuff, they can also paralyse and punish enemies who mess with your Scheme markers. The Drowned I bring for their hazardous terrain shenanigans, a lot of my tables have some, and they help support Jaakuna as well.