ScifiRonin Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Hi I'm new to Malifaux and have taken a fancy to Lilith, I need some list building advise as well as some Tactics. This is what I've got so far: Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap Lilith -- 5 Pool +Living Blade [2] +Rapid Growth [1] +Summon the Blood [1] Cherub [3] Black Blood Shaman [7] Nekima [13] +The True Mother [2] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] The Idea was to use BBS and Lilith to grow the TTs with Nekima as well as make more TTs if possible, but I've never played M2E (I played a single game of 1.5 and loved it!) so I really need your help. Thanks. JDV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikvar Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 A good start for an alternative crew would be a swampfiend crew, you should try to read these two threads for more info: http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/99513-waldgeist/ http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/99691-the-bad-juju-thread/ In the last thread about the Bad Juju, I have also written a short Batrep so you can understand the tacics behind it a bit more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 One of the biggest stumbling blocks for new players is list building - and this is because Malifaux, unlike other wargames, does NOT encourage or require list design before you get to a game. It isn't until you flip for strategy and schemes that you find out if a particular model, set of models, or plan is actually going to be any use. Remember, it's all about getting those VPs. It does, however, make it very tricky to examine a list in a vacuum and comment on its merits. I think I'd drop a couple of terror tots from the list myself (you'll be getting them back in-game anyway) and add in a young nephilim instead. The 2 stones saved here buy you fears given form for nekima and give you an extra stone in your pool. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oogie boogie Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I think I'd drop a couple of terror tots from the list myself (you'll be getting them back in-game anyway) and add in a young nephilim instead. The 2 stones saved here buy you fears given form for nekima and give you an extra stone in your pool. In my experience "fear given form" on Nekima isn't so good. You usually prefer she kills enemies with her sword (or black blood) because tot and young nephilim grow up; "fear given form" threatens to eliminate possible targets for growing up mechanics. In the list above I've noticed the lack of Barbaros, the third menace you always desire. With Lilith, Nekima e Barbaros, you have a really powerful trident! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 With a young nephilim in the list, a mature nephilim isn't far away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScifiRonin Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 A good start for an alternative crew would be a swampfiend crew, you should try to read these two threads for more info: http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/99513-waldgeist/ http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/99691-the-bad-juju-thread/ In the last thread about the Bad Juju, I have also written a short Batrep so you can understand the tacics behind it a bit more t Thanks for those but I think I'll stick with a pure Lilith Crew One of the biggest stumbling blocks for new players is list building - and this is because Malifaux, unlike other wargames, does NOT encourage or require list design before you get to a game. It isn't until you flip for strategy and schemes that you find out if a particular model, set of models, or plan is actually going to be any use. Remember, it's all about getting those VPs. It does, however, make it very tricky to examine a list in a vacuum and comment on its merits. I think I'd drop a couple of terror tots from the list myself (you'll be getting them back in-game anyway) and add in a young nephilim instead. The 2 stones saved here buy you fears given form for nekima and give you an extra stone in your pool. So I should get most of the Nephilim models In the Future then? I don't know the Fears Given Form card as I only have access to the Main Lilith box set, her expansion (Both from Unboxing articles) and the Wave 2 cards. In my experience "fear given form" on Nekima isn't so good. You usually prefer she kills enemies with her sword (or black blood) because tot and young nephilim grow up; "fear given form" threatens to eliminate possible targets for growing up mechanics. In the list above I've noticed the lack of Barbaros, the third menace you always desire. With Lilith, Nekima e Barbaros, you have a really powerful trident! Ok so what should I replace for Bararos? With a young nephilim in the list, a mature nephilim isn't far away! Yes but they cost more and I would rather grow TTs into YNs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Fears given form is a neverborn generic upgrade - you can find it in the main rulebook. Terror tots are cheaper, but not having to go through the extra step to get a naphilim to mature will save you a lot of time and effort in my 5 turn game. When you get caught up in growing, it's often at the expense of playing the schemes and strategy - keep an eye on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oogie boogie Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 2 terror tot and "living blade", cover Barbaros cost. Via "nimble" he is a good scheme machine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Barrows Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Young Nephilim/Barabos + Liltith + Living Blade + Opposing Master in Lilith's Melee Range = Hilarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScifiRonin Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Fears given form is a neverborn generic upgrade - you can find it in the main rulebook. Terror tots are cheaper, but not having to go through the extra step to get a naphilim to mature will save you a lot of time and effort in my 5 turn game. When you get caught up in growing, it's often at the expense of playing the schemes and strategy - keep an eye on them. I don't own the main rulebook yet but I'll check it out when I get it; Ok so most games are 5 turns (I used play 40k and I presumed that a Skirmish game would have more shorter turns ), so I'll stick a YN in there. 2 terror tot and "living blade", cover Barbaros cost. Via "nimble" he is a good scheme machine! Ok I'll grab him too (Because he comes with the Lilith Box set anyway ) I think I'll make a list containing just the models I want to buy first (All her plastics including an extra pack of TT) so here go's: 50 - Scrap Lilith -- 4 Pool +Beckon Malifaux [1] +Living Blade [2] +Rapid Growth [1] Cherub [3] Barbaros [10] +Fears Given Form [1] (Because everyone thinks this is great ) +Nephilim Gladiatus [1] Mature Nephilim [11] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uktena Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Almost any list can be good for something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScifiRonin Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Thank for all you Reply's, once I get the rules I think I'll be able to field a descent force, so I thank you again. Now I just need to make some money to buy the Boxes/Books/Cards . Thanks. JDV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 In that list, have someone other than Lilith carry the rapid growth upgrade. A mature Nephilim is a good choice for it. It frees up space on Lilith to take either wicked mistress or summon the blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScifiRonin Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 In that list, have someone other than Lilith carry the rapid growth upgrade. A mature Nephilim is a good choice for it. It frees up space on Lilith to take either wicked mistress or summon the blood. Ok so give RG to MN, take Nephilim Gladiatus away from Barb, and give Lilith Wicked Mistress (Thats 1ss right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 correct - and sounds good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Are you saying you will stick with a box crew, or just nephilim, or what? There really isn't such a thing as a pure Lilith crew. I'd suggest looking at waldgeists, Doppelgangers, and Lilu and Lilitu at least. If you stick to the box crew, you will find you are excellent against some strategies and crews, and awful against others. trying to build one 'all-comers' list is always a mistake in Malifaux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Let me second that last sentence. malifaux is not a list-building game like Warhammer (of any variety) - know your faction and plan on the fly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScifiRonin Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Are you saying you will stick with a box crew, or just nephilim, or what? There really isn't such a thing as a pure Lilith crew. I'd suggest looking at waldgeists, Doppelgangers, and Lilu and Lilitu at least. If you stick to the box crew, you will find you are excellent against some strategies and crews, and awful against others. trying to build one 'all-comers' list is always a mistake in Malifaux. Lilu and Lilitu are Nephilim to, and I'll be getting them when plastic ones come out, I'll be sticking to just things with the Nephilim type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uktena Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Lilu and Lilitu are Nephilim to, and I'll be getting them when plastic ones come out, I'll be sticking to just things with the Nephilim type. Playing the game the way you enjoy it is certainly key, but what they're pointing out is that while your list is drawn from one specific subtype only you will experience challenges in some scenarios and will have very good and very bad matchups and there's not much you will be able to do to change that. So I guess if you only want the Nephilim and that's how you like it then have a ball - just be prepared that your battles might end up mostly uphill depending on who your other players use and what you flip for Strats and Schemes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScifiRonin Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Playing the game the way you enjoy it is certainly key, but what they're pointing out is that while your list is drawn from one specific subtype only you will experience challenges in some scenarios and will have very good and very bad matchups and there's not much you will be able to do to change that. So I guess if you only want the Nephilim and that's how you like it then have a ball - just be prepared that your battles might end up mostly uphill depending on who your other players use and what you flip for Strats and Schemes Yeah I'm happy to have those Challenges thrown at me as I'll only really be playing casual games (and I don't really like the other Neverborn ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jondoe297 Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 don't forge Mr graves and tuco they are nephilim too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 As well as Mr Graves being an amazing looking model, he's also amazing game wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Lilu and Lilitu are Nephilim to, and I'll be getting them when plastic ones come out, I'll be sticking to just things with the Nephilim type. I understand the thinking. However, the fluff justification is a bit thin. The Nephilim thing was a bit stronger in first edition, but she has always been both the mother of monsters, and the Master of Malifaux. As such, bringing other monstrous models, especially swamp and terrain themed, fit right in. Honestly, I think the Waldgeists were made for her, as they don't work as well with any other master, and they fill a weakness of the Nephilim, in that it makes them a lot easier to get into combat with all the shooty crews. Still, if that's what you want, there are still a few good options. Look at the Black blood shaman when you have the chance. Also, Tuco offers a great option in that He actually has a ranged attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScifiRonin Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 don't forge Mr graves and tuco they are nephilim too As well as Mr Graves being an amazing looking model, he's also amazing game wise. I don't really like the idea of taking human in a Lilith list, it seems so wrong but thanks for that anyway. I understand the thinking. However, the fluff justification is a bit thin. The Nephilim thing was a bit stronger in first edition, but she has always been both the mother of monsters, and the Master of Malifaux. As such, bringing other monstrous models, especially swamp and terrain themed, fit right in. Honestly, I think the Waldgeists were made for her, as they don't work as well with any other master, and they fill a weakness of the Nephilim, in that it makes them a lot easier to get into combat with all the shooty crews. Still, if that's what you want, there are still a few good options. Look at the Black blood shaman when you have the chance. Also, Tuco offers a great option in that He actually has a ranged attack. I've already look at the Black blood Shaman and plan on buying two when the model comes out Tuco also looks cool (Like a possessed Cowboy ), I think I'll look into some of the Swampfiends and possible get a few. Thanks. JDV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikvar Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I was wondering... have you actually read the books, and read about Neverborn- what they are etc? This is not to sound condescending in any way, but I just have a very different view about the Neverborn then what it seems like you have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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