Nicodem summoning priority

[graeme27uk]

Rather than create separate post, can I check I am doing his summoning correctly.

 

1) Name a minion

2) work out the TN (Cost + 10)

3) Declare SS use if appropriate/wanted

4) Flip card

5) If card is crow and hits target number then summon minion

6) If not correct card then cheat in a card

 

I assume also:

 

1) You can't change the minion based on the result of the flip. So if you happen to flip a 13 crows and you wanted a Canine Remains you can't change your mind

 

2) You have to declare SS use before the flip so if you flip a crow and the card is high enough you have wasted the soulstone

[David Blank]

YUP

[graeme27uk]

Ok, if that is the way it works, it is really frustrating when you spend the SS and then flip the right crow.

 

Could there not be a triple crow trigger whereby minion comes in at additional health or without slow or something? Just so you haven't wasted a soulstone? I know the answer is probably no....   maybe that could be another upgrade for him?

 

 

On that subject... I had an idea for a new upgrade for Nicodem. What if he had an ability like Obey but one that only worked on Undead? Lower the TN or increase the range or such... it's a mechanic that exists already so it's not "new" in that sense. But it is within his fluff of being Master of Undeath.

[Whut]

I hope this isn't counted as being off topic, but my issue is all about how much I should invest in summoning so I feel like this is as good a place as any to ask.

 

I'm currently thinking of playing Nico at 35ss (our local club just started an escalation league so we're not at 50 yet)

 

I was seriously curious to know how much corpse production one would need in a 35ss game, as well as how many and what utility pieces to purchase and which to rely on summoning to get. Right now my rough list looks like:

 

Nico

- Love thy Master

Mortimer

- Corpse Bloat

Belle

Belle

Flesh Construct

I only have my old beta pdf on me right now so correct me if I'm mistaken but this is currently at 28ss

 

I'm not sure what I should do with the rest of this list... Right now Mortimer is going to have to stay still and not advance in order to make 2 corpses so I'm concerned an expensive part of my crew (especially because it is my corpse production) will fall behind. I also don't know what to do with those last 7ss because I feel like I will want to keep at least 6 (or rather 3 plus Nico's 3 cache) for summoning purposes, but in that case I can only get a canine remains, which seems like it would be over investing in corpse production? I don't know. Any help would be much appreciated.

[Somnicide]

Don't have any substantial to add other than the M2E crew creator on Malifaux.com is pretty sweet http://www.malifaux.com/M2eCrew.php

[entropolous]

I think that focusing on summoning off of corpse production can be a bit of a trap.  Ho ever you do it you are expending a lot of AP resources that are not doing things that directly help you win the game.  Instead, I prefer to look at summoning as a way to upgrade models after they have done their job: a necropunk jumps in to deliver a message and is promptly smacked down...great now I can turn his corpse counter into a punk or student.

[graeme27uk]

I am quite liking taking Toshiro with Corpse Bloat at the moment instead of it on Mortimer. Tosh gives another decent buff to minions and being undead Nico can heal him easily of any damage taken.

 

What are opinions on Guild Autopsies? They are pretty cheap to summon, are significant, have a ranged attack.... they seem pretty ok to me.

[Ausplosions]

I found Autopsies to be amazing in a faction that lacks ranged options.

[Foolsfolly]

I thought only half the students were summonable. Nicodem summons "Undead minions", but the valedictorian is a henchman, and the slithering one is an enforcer. The other 2 ARE minions, but that's only giving the ones strong against undead or constructs to summon. A bit more situational.

[ajay29]

I thought only half the students were summonable. Nicodem summons "Undead minions", but the valedictorian is a henchman, and the slithering one is an enforcer. The other 2 ARE minions, but that's only giving the ones strong against undead or constructs to summon. A bit more situational.

 

Slithering one (Viscera) is a minion in the wave 2 final cards from what I can see...

[Fetid Strumpet]

I saw that too. Probably to even out the summoning options a bit between horrors and spirits for Molly would be my guess.

[Foolsfolly]

Slithering one (Viscera) is a minion in the wave 2 final cards from what I can see...

Ahhh, right you are. The cards that came in the box with the models, while in M2E format, have been changed in the wave 2 final cards.

 

Also seem to have slightly upped their damage, increased their CA, and few other tweaks. Good to know, I'd been using them with their old, pre-wave 2, stats

[DeleteAccount]

Late to the dance, but yeah, my summoning is conditioned by my cards. One that hurdle is cleared, it's a question about what role I need covering at what is the best I can get out to achieve it. If I have a 9 and I need to punch stuff, then it's pretty much a crooked man or bust, if I have a 10, it becomes a debate between a flesh construct or a drowned depending on what they are facing and if I need more being a damage sponge or raw stats. I have an 11? Then it's when the good stuff comes in and it's either a punk or a student depending on my hand and if I need to ignore armor or not. With a 12 it becomes a duel between a slithering student or a shikome, again depending on what the enemy has, my hands, if there is poison on the table and so on, weak damage 3 can be huge if you can get the vengeance going or a slither can cause some mayhem if used well. With a 13, well, I'm not very fond of the hanged as a summon since the times I've gone for him, I've always wondered why I didn't just call a punk, but yeah, if the enemy likes healing or is a life bag, the hanged is your man.

 

If I needed some range support, it's a battle between crooked men, drowned and guild autopsies, none of them are anything to throw confeti about, but they do give you various tastes of gun to go for depending on what you need (put poison on the table, go for blasts or force stat tests on a few models).

 

I don't tend to go utility, though sometimes I'll bring a belle or a doxie depending on cards and what I need to achieve, mostly if it's about moving the enemy or moving my own stuff. for scenario purposes I prefer to bring those in the base list from the getgo, but if I really need to get something to point A for scoring purposes that doesn't require an interact this turn, my go to model is the nercropunk, though canine remains and crooligans get the job done if you are only packing an 8.

 

So yeah, moral of the story, Nicodem is awesome. As for corpse generation, a vulture with a model using corpse bloat once in the game has been enough for me, if the enemy has no corpse removal, it means I get a corpse into the middle of the table turn 1 and when the vulture dies that's two and from there it just keeps growing.

[dgraz]

I've played against Nico a few times....and I've found Crooked Men to be a real pain against my more 'shooty' crews.

[DeleteAccount]

I haven't had enough chances to use crooked men for their antiranged capabilities, but if I need to get a finish the job going, or more importantly, have a high crow and a decent chance to paralyze, I will go for the crooked one even if it costs me a higher card (this supposing I'm not packing a nurse or in position of course) since that trigger has caused huge amounts of mayhem.

[graeme27uk]

Just pondering.... is McMourning with Moonlighting a "better" summoner than Nico?

 

Sure he hasn't got the variety that Nico has but Expunging is pretty easy to get off and then summoning either full wound Flesh Construct or Canine Remains is pretty powerful.

 

Having stuff summoned in at half wounds without a REAL way to help them heal up is a pain. sure you can use decay but that is only 2 wounds (or full if you hit the trigger but is that likely?). You could get the upgrade that allows you summon in with more wounds but that requires more corpse counters.

 

 

Is taking "Spare Parts" worth it on Nico?

[bigbopper]

For Assassinate, Vendetta or anything that needs to die, I have morti, nurse, and Punk Zombie. Nurse gives hallucinogen to Punk the morti fresh meats him to your target and Nico gives him fast then the punk flurries and attacks target for four 4/6/7 swings minimum damage on all of those is still 16 damage.

Sorry to be that guy, but a model with hallucinogen on it can't flurry. Hallucinogen says the model can only take melee actions, flurry is a tactical action so therefore cannot be taken. Not that this invalidates your tactic though three attacks at 4/6/7 is still brutal. I look forward to trying it some day.

[DeleteAccount]

Just pondering.... is McMourning with Moonlighting a "better" summoner than Nico?

 

Sure he hasn't got the variety that Nico has but Expunging is pretty easy to get off and then summoning either full wound Flesh Construct or Canine Remains is pretty powerful.

 

Having stuff summoned in at half wounds without a REAL way to help them heal up is a pain. sure you can use decay but that is only 2 wounds (or full if you hit the trigger but is that likely?). You could get the upgrade that allows you summon in with more wounds but that requires more corpse counters.

 

 

Is taking "Spare Parts" worth it on Nico?

No he isn't, the wounds thing was a point of a lot of conflict during the beta, but really, you don't need it and if you use Love Thy Master actively or use activation order to your advantage, your summoned models having half wounds is a non factor since they will get at the very least a full activation and a full punk zombie flurry with no slow, fast tacked on and a decaying aura in the area murders most masters quick.

 

Also, the variety of what you can summon is huge. Yeah McMourning's expunge is stupid easy to use to get a summon (I'm still surprised he gets the base suit for it) and if you get a good run going, you can get a good batch of canine remains, but that's the limit of it, you need lure or leap? Only nico can get you one of those when you need them.

 

Also, spare parts seems like dead weight on nico unless you want to go for the rogue, which is a real possibility, but I'd rather just summon more punks and keep the corpses on the table.

[PicklesGrr]

Expunge is an opposed check so I think that's why the suits baked in.  It feels very much win bigger though as if you kill your target you also get free stuff. 
Nico is quite rightly a vastly better summoner than McM overall.

[graeme27uk]

Yeh, tend to agree with the above points. However, having a 13WD flesh construct appear from expunging a target is nasty. Canine remains not so bothered about... though still annoying.

 

Summoning at full wounds is always going to be nasty regardless of what the model is.

 

 

Still.... tenacious and determined as an undead mindless zombie... I will carry out with Nico and become the Master of Undeath!

[PicklesGrr]

I played Nicodem yesterday & ended up with a glut of corpses after bad hands & a couple of Mortimer triggers so I ended up summoning 3 models all at full health - which I hardly ever do as the half health is usually enough to get by & I feel more weak guys is better than fewer healthy ones.  

Flesh Constructs are mostly bags of HP so having them full is certainly good but it's still a bit random - overkill when you are doing well already &c.

[Nicodemic]

I've been thinking a bit about him and I want to try my hand at writing a general rundown tactica for him, i would ask that people gather together their tricks, tip's, and combos so we can throw those on top of what I have and then hopefully edit it a bit so we can point new players to it and add to it over time.

My experience is mostly with wave 1 models but I have played them numerous ways so anyone with lots of wave 2 experience that can help with tricks etc. Is awesome.

[HtUnliving]

If you really feel the need for corpses, that your summoning fails without them, use the Avatar.

But seriously, Strumpet's rundown on discussion page 2 sums it up real nicely. 

 

I haven't thought of the idea of Toshiro w. Corpse Bloat but it does make sense, what with the Zombie Warlord spawning lesser zombies. 

 

How about them Ashigarus? If you ever need something protecting Nico from melee (faced the four Sisters in my first 2E game and they pulled the full combo, by Odin's beard nothing more needs sayin), I'd say these are your minions. Also, if you got enough cards, they can wreak placement with (1) charges and Wall of Steel. Also, they are awesome.

 

Noticed in my last game that Punks aren't always enough so keep an eye out for the University-stuff, and if facing Huggy, anything that has magics or Paralyze. 

Hmm, gotta try the Gaki, they seem like a good combination of Corpses and damage.