Iron Heel Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 So I was one of the people making a big stink about Wyrd posting PDFs of the cards for us to grab/buy because I was looking forward to playing Levi and totalled the $ needed to have access to Outcast, Undead, and Construct cards. I also have a lovely painted Collodi crew (with Killjoy support: http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?33334-Iron-Heel-Carnival-of-Doom!) and listed to Justin's interview with Malifools. It seems that the effigies have even more cool synergy with Collodi when he picks a particular upgrade. I don't really see many folks picking up a deck and ditching the effigy card (which there will probably be only one of in the deck) if they play that faction so I don't envision these coming up in trade very much. Seriously, I don't want to spend $50+ just to get a few cards as there is no book is slated for wave 2 and the only way to get the finished rules would be to own the cards. :Stuck_Puppet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spifferson Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 and the only way to get the finished rules would be to own the cards. not quite true. As someone who is interested in using/printing? .pdf cards I don't think its much of a stretch to borrow the cards to copy/scan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 not quite true. As someone who is interested in using/printing? .pdf cards I don't think its much of a stretch to borrow the cards to copy/scan. Tru dat. But still. Give us a book, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carasz Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Tru dat. But still. Give us a book, please. Are we not getting a (second) book with the rest if the models? Or do you mean the book will take too long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorbad Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 I think what cards are available for trade will increase once we start seeing more M2E releases of models. For instance I don't own any effigy models so if I buy the models once they are released with cards I'll have those cards spare from the arsenal deck. Doesn't really help right now, but should help over time. About the book, sounds like there are no solid plans for producing it at the moment (that Justin knew of at least) but its been talked about. So better file it under unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Heel Posted October 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Again? It is a wound that keeps getting reopened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 It is a wound that keeps getting reopened. Stop picking at it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Mouse Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Stop picking at it then. Indeed, just "acquire" the cards and print them off. If Wyrd are making it difficult for people to get the official cards then they can hardly blame anyone for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Indeed, just "acquire" the cards and print them off. If Wyrd are making it difficult for people to get the official cards then they can hardly blame anyone for doing so. If by "making it dufficult" you mean "selling their product " Then no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorbad Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Indeed, just "acquire" the cards and print them off. If Wyrd are making it difficult for people to get the official cards then they can hardly blame anyone for doing so. Its not that they are difficult to get really, more that the combination some people need/want is more expensive than they would like it to be. Lots of stuff is more expensive than I'd want it to be, but it doesn't give me any moral right to "acquire" it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Mouse Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) Its not that they are difficult to get really, more that the combination some people need/want is more expensive than they would like it to be. Lots of stuff is more expensive than I'd want it to be, but it doesn't give me any moral right to "acquire" it. For the effigies $36 for 4 cards is so beyond ridiculous in terms of pricing I think it is entirely morally correct to "acquire" the cards. Or do you think $8 per card is reasonable? You would have to be a complete Wyrd apologist to say paying $8 for one card is acceptable. Then again we had Wyrd apologists saying the miscast Viktorias were fine because "people come in all shapes and sizes". One has to wonder what these people would be saying if, say, GW did the same things. It's not merely expensive, it's extortionate and I'm sure Wyrd wouldn't mind one bit - I don't think they're in the business of ripping off their customers, but rather can't really offer the cards any other way. I don't think anyone in Wyrd honestly expects a Colloidi player to pay that money for those cards. If you can trade for them fine, if not I don't think any Collodi player should be forking over so much money for a handful of cards and the only reasonable option is to "acquire" the cards on PDF. Heck, give the money to charity or buy $36 of useful and good value Wyrd stuff, of which there is plenty. Edited October 6, 2013 by Manic Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carasz Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 For the effigies $36 for 4 cards is so beyond ridiculous in terms of pricing I think it is entirely morally correct to "acquire" the cards. Or do you think $8 per card is reasonable? It's not merely expensive, it's extortionate and I'm sure Wyrd wouldn't mind one bit - I don't think they're in the business of ripping off their customers, but rather can't really offer the cards any other way. I don't think anyone in Wyrd honestly expects a Collodi player to pay that money for those cards. It feels extortionate because you only want those four cards. You still pay for and get much more than that. I'd gladly pay 8 bucks for more cards than I need than pay $1 for each card. For all of us who need more than 4 cards it'll soon even out when buying the whole pack than separate cards. And I get extra stuff, which I might use later or sell. Remember, you don't need those cards to play. You can play just as well with the rulebook. As long as someone in the room has the rulebook, you're fine. You want those cards because it makes paying easier. I don't think they expect someone to pay that, they just don't have another reasonable way to do it. It's not worth the time and money to do it any other way. I'd rather they took the time to release more models. Look around if someone nearby needs some cards, you can split the packs. Or sell the rest online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I don't think they expect someone to pay that, they just don't have another reasonable way to do it. It's not worth the time and money to do it any other way. I'd rather they took the time to release more models.. Hey printing company, print us off a sheet of the following models cards: X, Y, Z. Thanks. Once a print company already has your saved files on hand, it's just a matter of ordering those specific items that you want them to print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorbad Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 You still got to pay for them though, and doing smaller print runs become relatively more expensive, to the point where a company might not find it worth the resource commitment on their part. What I wonder is if we will only see M2E cards with the plastic models or will we see metal models packaged with the new cards as well, and when that would happen. As I said before once we start getting those cards with the models I think the problem will rapidly go away as people will start having spares of all sorts of things. Its not the ideal solution, and its further complicated if there isn't going to be a book with the second wave models as the cards a will then become the only place for those rules. And I doubt most are foing to have an issue with a copied stat card or a pdf file, but claiming a moral right to 'acquire' something because of being unhappy with the price or similar issues is, when dealing with a luxury leisure item, somewhat problematic. Not that that was what Iron Heel did, just pointing out there is a wider question as well. Rules are very easy to reproduce, but even with miniatures you get recasters and the likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Hey printing company, print us off a sheet of the following models cards: X, Y, Z. Thanks. Once a print company already has your saved files on hand, it's just a matter of ordering those specific items that you want them to print. Yep. Easy as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 A bit off topic, but in which decks will the avatar cards come in? Also if you need to buy the decks for faction generic upgrades, which dont come with the m2e crew boxes aren't you left in any case only with the option to buy the arsenal decks? since avatars arent propably the first ones to get resculpts, cause every master doesnt even have an avatar yet. If that is the case, it isnt an option for making the game easier to buy the decks, you must buy them to be able to play. ---------- Post added at 01:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 PM ---------- And again with the selling their product card, Wyrd themselves said that it was to be done in a nonprofit way as a favour to the players, well it isn't if the only option is to buy a whole lotta arsenal decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 For the effigies $36 for 4 cards is so beyond ridiculous in terms of pricing I think it is entirely morally correct to "acquire" the cards. You get far more than just 4 cards for your $36. If you choose to put the other 200 cards in the bin that's hardly Wyrd 's fault... There are plenty of ways around the issue that don't involve straying into morally grey areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireTrollJake Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Yeh, as a 10 Thunders player (and likely Marcus too), it does suck. But...I'll be getting them all anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Mouse Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) You get far more than just 4 cards for your $36. If you choose to put the other 200 cards in the bin that's hardly Wyrd 's fault... There are plenty of ways around the issue that don't involve straying into morally grey areas. What would you suggest a Collodi player do with the rest of the cards? Maybe build a house of cards? Wallpaper their bedroom? Use them as particularly extravagant toilet paper? I love all the people who aren't affected by this weighing in to tell those who have no option but to pay $8 for one useful card (to them) that they should be happy with that deal. There really is a disconcerting number of people on these forums who can't look past their own and Wyrd's interests, and love to tell other people who are getting a raw deal how wrong they are. At least with wave one the fallback was you could buy the book. Now it's changed to "$8 is a great deal for the few cards that might interest you". The argument that you get 200 other cards that are of little to no use to you is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Any Collodi player is safer waiting until the new Effigy models are released and buying them for the card. The only other way around the issue is to trade, which may not be an option for many people. In fact it's something I think the forum could do with organising - a card trading thread. Edited October 6, 2013 by Manic Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I, for one, greatly approve of the concept of arsenal decks. Before M2E, if I wanted a statcard, I had to order it from the Wyrd web shop and pay for shipping and whatnot. That was a rough deal. And it's not like LGS would ever stock all the stat cards for every model in the game. And in a world of people paying 40-45£ for a single model (looking at you, GW), I don't see how 8£ for an arsenal deck matters much in the end. Plus, it's not like you have to get the card for every single effigy, just like you don't have to get the card for every beast for Marcus. Get them at a need-to-use basis, and it probably won't hurt that much in the wallet. Also, let's not call each other stupid, it gets threads locked in a sad, lonely way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Mouse Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Slightly off topic, but will we be getting an Effigy of Slop and Effigy of Thunder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Heel Posted October 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 One option I posited before was Wyrd posting pdfs of the card sets (full factions +upgrades in one download like the playtest materials). I'd rather pay Wyrd for that than photocopy cards and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledgem Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Uh... Was it ever mentioned that the effigies would NOT all be in the neverborn deck? They are essentially all dual faction neverborn before dual faction existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach_5 Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Uh... Was it ever mentioned that the effigies would NOT all be in the neverborn deck? They are essentially all dual faction neverborn before dual faction existed. I don't think it's been announced either way, though I'd expect they will be packaged with arsenal decks like dual faction models are. Ie, each effigy would only be in the deck of their primary faction (arcane effigy in the arcanist arsenal deck and not the neverborn deck .for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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