steamborg executioner???

[dgraz]

So, yeah, more stone users might seem to imply faster usage, but it doesn't have to be.

I guess so. But I've tried it and I do tend to use the resources I have available. Especially when you're trying to protect those few valuable models. If you're not using SS, then you're not taking advantage of one of the biggest advantages Henchmen have.

[Sybarite]

i really liked running a Steamborg with Bleeding Edge tech and 3 rail worker friends That gang packed a punch and was quite resilient.

[Dracomax]

I guess so. But I've tried it and I do tend to use the resources I have available. Especially when you're trying to protect those few valuable models. If you're not using SS, then you're not taking advantage of one of the biggest advantages Henchmen have.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. It depends on the henchman, but SS use should always be situational, and it should always be another tool. I think the ability/threat of using SS is more valuable than actually using them.

Honestly, I'd say the biggest advantage that henchmen have is adaptability. They can take up to 2 upgrades, and most of them have abilities and stats that make them worth the cost even without the threat of Soulstoning.

That being said, I will admit that SS use can be a huge advantage. You can use it to ignore soft cover. You can auto-trigger abilites, or decrease damage with them. This means that so long as you have Soulstones left, your opponent doesn't know which model is going to use them, and has to take them into account when dealing with your henchman. However, with Henchmen, you always have to be even more careful with spending them than with masters. It's easy to use too many in early rounds spreading them around, and not actually accomplish anything useful.

Personally, I've said ever since they lowered the max number of SS that there aren't enough now, but the rules are what they are. You have a very limited number of the resource. Henchmen don't bring them in with them the way masters do. If you are bringing henchman with the idea that you are bringing another soulstone user, IMHO, you are using them wrong. It's much better to think of them as Super-enforcers who can also spend a SS once or twice a game if you need them to. SS use should absolutely not be a core component to their use or your strategy for it, for the same reason that resource management was the mark of a master in M1E. It's a trap that's built into the game, and it's easy to fall into.

I'd rephrase your statement to say, "If you never use a SS with a Henchman, you are not taking advantage of one of the Major advantages Henchmen have."

Because the main advantage to SS on them is the threat of using a SS with them, followed by the ability to use SS with them after the master is down, and only after both of those (and their core abilities) does the ability to use SS in general play have value.

If you use them right, a crew composed of 2-3 Henchmen can be devastating, even to swarm crews. It depends on the Henchmen you bring, of course, but the tricks they have available and the extra upgrades they can bring can make a huge difference, and absolutely even the game up enough that strategy and luck are the main deciders of the game. However, if the primary reason you are bringing them is to add another SS node, you are going to be dissatisfied.

[dgraz]

Personally, I've said ever since they lowered the max number of SS that there aren't enough now, but the rules are what they are.

Well I'm sure that's one of the reasons it was reduced....that you could have multiple SS users in play. SS do give a lot of nice abilities, I'm fine with the 7 pool max.

[Dracomax]

I'm sure it was. I just felt like the increased the number of things Soulstones could do dramatically, and increased the number of soulstones available. Being less than M1E doesn't make a lot of sense to me. but it's a minor complaint, at best.

[Ender101]

i really liked running a Steamborg with Bleeding Edge tech and 3 rail worker friends That gang packed a punch and was quite resilient.

Oh that is cruel. I love it.

I agree with a lot of what Dracromax said above about henchmen and soulstone use.

[Gorbad]

Maybe is just me, but I find 'Im bringing less soulstones in M2E than I would in 1.5. As long as I have 5 I feel that's fine for most purpose. I certainly dont feel I need to strive for a max cashe the way I did in 1.5 and I don't think I'd want to bring say 9 except in very special circumstances. But then I played Collette in 1.5 where you quickly learned that just because someone could use soulstones didn't meant you had to.

[Sybarite]

Not trying to play Mod here but perhaps we should discuss the steamborg in this thread?

A mate of mine is worried the steamborg is overpowered, but he hasn't actually played against it yet. Do you think it's balanced? It's certainly really scary and butchers stuff but it's very expensive and not the most resilient piece in the game.

[Barbagianni]

It's very killy, especially if you have luck/can cheat with the decapitation, but I managed to bring him down with a couple of ronins with relative ease (actually, he killed the gunslinger and a ronin, so I guess it was a tie). And I'm not sure, but wp based duels might be trouble for him.

[decker_cky]

It's not particularly resilient, particularly for how much it costs. It's a classic glass cannon with a little utility for 12SS.

[i_was_like_you]

But it does have nimble, now, so it can get into position and then flurry or charge further or attack 2 models hoping to decapitate both.

[Dracomax]

It feels less glass now than it did in the previous edition, though. the Armor buff really helped, and the ability to add upgrades for things like an additional point of DF are really good. Add in being able to keep it in range of Ramos Arcing screen until you are ready to activate, and it isn't all that easy to kill. Bring Johan along, and you have to take it out in one turn with it getting armor and double card flip to all DF flips, or it heals back up. (Ramos can do this too, at the cost of a scrap and taking an upgrade).

Wp is still going to be a problem, but if you suspect a heavy Wp duel crew is coming at you, none of Ramos crew are great against them. You might be better off focusing on spiders, or killing other models before they can hit you.

Personally, I don't think that it's going to sit on the shelf this time around the way it did last time, because it has enough extra survivability to accomplish a lot of goals, and if you play it right, it is an awesome tarpit.

[bearn]

The change of the cloud from 3-4" was really a strong change for it and it adds great rng survivability along with allowing a couple models to use it as a screen on their approach.

[Sybarite]

What armour buff? Didn't it have armour 1 last edition too or are you talking about armour being better in general now?

i like protecting it and a clump of models while going in with the Vent steam and steam cloud combo It's pretty hard to hurt it then.

[Dracomax]

The change of the cloud from 3-4" was really a strong change for it and it adds great rng survivability along with allowing a couple models to use it as a screen on their approach.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this, as it doesn't really make the steamborg more survivable. In first edition, it would have made him untargetable by anyone outside the :aura4 cloud, but here, it just imposes a standard to target anyone within 4 with a .

It makes the steamborg a better support model, but it realy doesn't add much if anything to its survivability.

@sybarite: you are right. While armor feels like it works a bit better in this incarnation, it wasn't really a buff. the Terrifying, on the other hand... It may not be more powerful in terms of absolute numbers, but the expansion of the number of living models and the changes to what trigger terrifying make it much better.

[Chrisgossett]

is anyone taking any upgrades on this guy other then the one to give him fast ?

[Sybarite]

Dracomax: Yeah terrifying is really nice. Must remember not to forget about it. i'm not used to playing with terrifying models and the whole "have to test when shooting a terryfing model" is easy to forget.

Yeah bleeding edge tech, unless i've got something else to stick it on. i really like that upgrade. Only played the steamborg twice though, but i liked bleeding edge on it too. Fast is awesome though.