So how is Seamus treating you guys?

[rancor709]

The Nurse is one of those pieces that is finding itself in more and more of my lists regardless who is running the list. The Fact that all but one of there ability quasi paraylzes a model is fantastic. That big nasty about to charge you, nurse gives him some hallocenogens. he can only take ml strikes if nothing is near him he's as good as paralyzed. Or making your opponents hard hitter only able to walk and interact also just as good if not better than a paralyzed.

Hanged + Seamus + sinster rep + corpse bloat is good times.

Although I have really been enjoying bag of tools red chapel as my preferred set up

[Manic Mouse]

It's funny how nurses have become so useful now, can't get over my revulsion at seeing them in lists... Time to get over my old bias.

[Drix]

SO who's been running the Bag? Sinister Rep seems like it just combos so well with so many other models in the faction/ his crew.

[HoboDevil]

I use the bag and sinister reputation about as often myself. If I want to go for the melee/attrition route with unnerving aura I go with the bag. Or if the opponent has a lot of ranged guys. As odd as that sounds. If the opponent has a ranged powerhouse I use back alley and whatnot to engage with it in melee asap.

Edit: My playgroup builds teams before anything else. We know better, but we never do it the proper way haha.

[Drix]

Interesting. UA, is a nice upgrade for that, I think I'm spoiled by having Corpse Bloat and RCK to spawn a corpse token and bounce out of combat.

If you're going the Bag route, it seems like Canine Remains would be useful, they lower both enemy defense and their Rabies trigger lowers willpower. ANd to top it off they can also spawn corpses for Seamus to summon Belles/ teleport away with RCK. OooOoo I like that.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Personally while the bag is neat, and honestly I always envisioned Seamus more as a knife in the dark, I find it hard not to take the rep simply because of the fact that I feel that effect of having a -2wp aura that is always on just gets way more mileage by allowing all my models to use it, rather than the few melee attacks Seamus might get to take in game.

[Evilbleachman]

Seamus and his crew are really nice and well rounded. I enjoy playing them a lot more than I previously did in 1.5.

My only pet peeve in this edition is how powerful his 3 SS totem is. Seamus can pop up anywhere, which is already bad/good enough, as such. But having a little runt pop in as well and then shooting twice for such high damage is just too much, imo.

Given, I do not have the new cards yet (still on old beta files). I kind of wish his (0) skill was a (1) instead.

[Manic Mouse]

Seamus and his crew are really nice and well rounded. I enjoy playing them a lot more than I previously did in 1.5.

My only pet peeve in this edition is how powerful his 3 SS totem is. Seamus can pop up anywhere, which is already bad/good enough, as such. But having a little runt pop in as well and then shooting twice for such high damage is just too much, imo.

Given, I do not have the new cards yet (still on old beta files). I kind of wish his (0) skill was a (1) instead.

I think his melee 5 with decapitate is worse than the high damage shooting! But most totems are really good in M2E so swings and round abouts I guess.

[zFiend]

Wow. Really good info here on how to play Seamus. Can't wait to try these.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Something to note, in my previous post I mentioned 'decaying aura' as being difficult to get off. I meant 'unnerving aura'. 'Decaying Aura' is a solid choice for her, making her even more of a master killer than she already is.

With that said, I still think that in a Seamus crew there are usually better options to take than her (at 9ss). It's a diff story in a Tara crew, but I digress.

I'd like to suggest something a little different than what has been mentioned here for a list.

Now I need to preface this with, I think the belles are amazing in Seamus 2E, but I don't take a ton of them, I expect to usually make 1-2 from my dogs digging up corpse counters and then another 1-2 from enemy models. So a list I've been enjoying is the following:

Canine Remains x3 - 12ss

Punk Zomibie x2 - 14ss

The Hanged x1 - 9ss

Rotten Belle x1 - 5ss

Grave Spirit x1 - 3ss

Seamus - cache of 6 ss (w/Red Chapel (1ss), Mad Haberdasher (2ss), Sinister Rep (1ss)

I love the dogs for objective grabbing, and helping with the Wp debuffing as well as the ability to easily pull off 1AP charges when together. The Hanged is just amazing simply for Whispers from Beyond and the removal of Immunity to Horror Duels.

Finally, while I really see the versatility of the CCK, I think for me with the Hanged that the Grave Spirit provides such a great set of abilities I can't see taking the CCK over it. He adds so much to the pack of dogs running around or to the Hanged getting a little defensive buff. Plus removing cards from your opponents hand is ALWAYS fun (oh yeah and is severe dmg is 5! so he is a minion killer for sure).

Anyone else tried something similar to this? I know its nothing spectacular but its simple and works. Oh and one final aside, its really great against Lilith grow lists...can anyone spot it?

[rancor709]

Personally I prefer the bag of tools. The -2wp is nice but if I'm going up against someone like raspy or crews with lots of ranged attacks the 6in aura of horror starts to lose some luster for me. While the bag of tools generally gels better with my playstyle of using the belles to set up for assaisantion runs by seamus who if something gets close uses his victims corpse to then jump away.

The base load out is

Seamus-Unnerving aura, Bag of tools and Red Chapel gang you could very easily swap out unnerving aura for Mad habadeshery if you don't think you can keep seamus up. This is supported by

Sybelle with Corpse bloat and bleeding tongue

and 2 belles that's the core I start most of my seamus lists with unless its a game with assassination in play. I prefer the aggressive style seamus that is less reliant on the terror duels at range. I find I actually get more bang out of the bag but I'm also not afraid to trade my master for an enemy piece or to that will prove problematic if I don't remove them.

Sinister rep is good and it definately lends to a safer playstyle that puts the pressure on your opponent to pass the wp checks. At the end of the day either style seamus is just as squishy he's defense 4 with a terror check, do not engage seamus with a big hitter unless you can darn near guarantee the kill in either style. Someone like Kang or another beater isn't a great match to take on with the bag unless you've got the cards.

[Cornelious1424]

Well, I wasn't thinking of now as 1.5 vs. 2e, but more now vs. the original book 1. And I know it's a nitpick, but technically Performers and Beckoners didn't have Lure in 1.5...(sorry, I can't help it).

Cornelious, could you be more specific about what Seamus (or his crew) have lost? I really don't see anything he's lost access to, other than the choice between the Bag and his Rep (sinister rep being more similar to old school Seamus).

Specifically Undead Psychosis. This is an ability I exploited in 1.5 and I felt it was one of his best ways of surviving the full 6 turns of a game. It was also a way for my crew to survive as well, seeing that the enemy couldn't engage me but I could engage them.

[rancor709]

Oh undead psychosis one of causalities of seamus transition from 1.5 to 2.0. there are some games I miss it and many times I don't. He's a much more workable package in 2.0 than 1.5 and who knows with the upgrade system it be fairly easy to bring something like this back.

[dgraz]

Specifically Undead Psychosis.

I don't miss it.

(I cut my 'all beast, all melee, Marcus list' teeth against Cornelious1424's Seamus.)

[Silas Cordell]

Specifically Undead Psychosis. This is an ability I exploited in 1.5 and I felt it was one of his best ways of surviving the full 6 turns of a game. It was also a way for my crew to survive as well, seeing that the enemy couldn't engage me but I could engage them.

Fair enough, that did get cut. I never really worked it into my playstyle, so I didn't even really notice. yeah, I can see that being annoying.

[Fetid Strumpet]

The reason I tend to prefer the Rep over the bag against pretty much all lists is the vast majority of the models I like to bring, Belles, Sybelle, Nurses, Hanged, and so on all have attacks Vs Wp. Trust me it's golden watching Sybelle focus a shriek at an enemy nearby Seamus and watching them try to stop the blast dmg from coming down. The entire crew just does better against anything nearby Seamus, and the Belle's ability to slow models actually gets through much more often. And in addition to slowing the model, it doesn't pull them out of the 6" Aura, which allows more of them to cast spells to Heal Seamus.

Basically to more Wp targeting attacks you have, the better the rep becomes.

[HoboDevil]

I more or less agree, Fetid. I think the big reason I kind of disagree is that I've been trying to force in as much variety as possible lately rather than fielding the same WP onslaught every game.

This is more of a question than a critique though, but an issue I see with a potential to pop up. If you field a crew dedicated specifically to WP shenanigans then what's the most efficient way to counter the counter? I remember trying a terror list and my opponent played Rasputina and pretty much just giggled and slapped me around for a while. (My 2 hanged would have been more useful in a spelling bee that game.)

Also...I like his new heal 2 when an enemy fails WP more than the old heal 2 when something dies. I've healed 6+ a turn with the new ability. Never did that with the old form.

Sidenote: Every single player I've played against where I've had a Belle use Lure on something already in base contact just to heal 2 on Seamus has almost flipped the table.

Edited September 5, 2013 by HoboDevil

[Fetid Strumpet]

There really isn't a counter to a WP based crew, in the sense of it being a hard counter, like Running a Terror list versus Raspy, other than running alot of high WP models.

I've found the counter, in a way, to a Lure list, depending on your make up and theirs is to run straight at the luring models with yours. If you let a lure list you in piecemeal you'll get cut to ribbons.

[HoboDevil]

Yeah, the Belles provide an awkward psychological effect on the game I think. Most people are very concerned about getting lured to a point of playing too defensively and trying to avoid them. And we all know the Belles are just too darn purdy to avoid! (18 inches of pure friggin' beauty!)

[Drix]

I posted this in the rules forum, but I figured this was a relevant place to ask as well:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?46544-2e-Can-a-Rotten-Belle-s-Lure-be-used-on-models-already-in-base-to-base&p=615562#post615562

Can Belles Lure models already in base to base contact? As in an enemy model is in base contact with a Belle. I activate the Belle and cast/succeed using Lure on the enemy model, do I HAVE to psychically move the Lured model? Can I just cast Lure on the model, leave the model where it is, and count the action as a success?

This is important for 3 main reasons:

1. It would count as a failed WP test and trigger Seamus' healing while within 6" due to Feast of Fear.

2. If it counts as a "move" regardless of the model being physically moved; it would still trigger Pounce and engaged Belle(s) would get a free attack vs the enemy model that was Lured.

3. You can force a discard via the Lure's trigger.

Also- Can I move a Lured enemy model out of base to base contact with the targeting Belle as long as it finishes its move back as close as possible to the Belle that Lured it? (Which I assume means back in base to base contact, even it it's a different spot along the Belle's base.)

That is, could I move the enemy model out from the Belle's base to end up elsewhere touching her base? This would also include moving it out from base to base, and then around other models (friendly or enemy) and then back into base to base contact with the targeting Belle.

This is to either open up room for other models to move in and/or move the enemy model into range of another Belle's engagement range to trigger more Pounces.

Thanks in advance!

Edited September 5, 2013 by Drix
typo

[HoboDevil]

I think your questions were answered pretty soundly in your other thread, Drix, but you've actually inspired a question in me!

Who controls the movement? If I lure Enemy Model X, does the opponent (owner) move the piece or do I? I've been playing it that the enemy gets to move their model so long as it gets closer. If not...Glee! So much of it. So much Glee that you guys can have some of my spare Gleefulness. (Note, it might just be garbage I found.)

[Drix]

From a rules perspective, the owner of the Belle is dictating where the model goes, that seems pretty clear from the text of Lure.

If the player owning the model wants to physically move it themselves that'd be fine with me as long as they put it where I say. I can totally understand not wanting grubby neckbeards to touch my precious models.

As for my rule question, it just seems ridiculously good that I can have a model in b2b with a Belle while simultaneously engaged with another Belle and via Lure, Pounce, and Chain activations from Companion that I can have a total possible 8 attacks(!) between the two Belles. (Each Belle gets to Lure twice; each of which could trigger 2 attacks each via Pounce.)

And that's before you even consider that each successful Lure can heal Seamus if he's in range.

[edonil]

It's also about the only real way Belles are threats in combat though. They don't exactly have the most damaging sets of abilities.

[HoboDevil]

From a rules perspective, the owner of the Belle is dictating where the model goes, that seems pretty clear from the text of Lure.

If the player owning the model wants to physically move it themselves that'd be fine with me as long as they put it where I say. I can totally understand not wanting grubby neckbeards to touch my precious models.

As for my rule question, it just seems ridiculously good that I can have a model in b2b with a Belle while simultaneously engaged with another Belle and via Lure, Pounce, and Chain activations from Companion that I can have a total possible 8 attacks(!) between the two Belles. (Each Belle gets to Lure twice; each of which could trigger 2 attacks each via Pounce.)

And that's before you even consider that each successful Lure can heal Seamus if he's in range.

Yeah, reading the card it's the most obvious thing in the world...I don't know why I assumed that the opponent got to choose, but my playgroup all went along with it! (Including my Henchman. That cur! Haha.) but he froths at the mouth regarding my Belles so I can't blame him...

So much glee now!

[Fetid Strumpet]

It's A good tactic, but its not ridiculously powerful. I tend to favor using it, but mainly because after four years I can play a belle centric Seamus list and not just be destroyed. There are some serious weaknesses to the tactic that can be exploited by a canny opponent. I'm not saying the combo isn't good, but its around the level of the combos other masters and crews can do.