Suggestions for Malifaux 2.0 (Non-Avatar Edition)

[i_was_like_you]

As the Malifaux 2.0 rumours thread is highly speculative, I figured I'd start a fresh thread, a la the Suggestion for Mfx 2.0 Helping players use avatars thread, but pertaining to other rules.

[There's plenty to be said for and against the Avatars, so that thread needs to stay as on-topic as possible, imo.]

So, the first things that I'd like to suggest involve Link.

I was reminded by Half competent player curious about Seamus!, which also reminded me of a thread involving Colette and her Mannequins (which I'll post if I find it), and how they lose Harmless when they Link.

He's only one ss to field, they don't get much cheaper:) He can link to your beat stick to make most of them more tanky(rogue necromancy is still kinda fragile) then focus cast Seamus's spells while your tank drags him around.

So, with those things in mind, I'd like to posit the idea that maybe Link shouldn't end Harmless on a model, as it's doing everything it can to hide behind another model and remain as inconspicuous as possible. [I might even extend that to all (0) actions, but that's a whole other suggestion with its own pros and cons.]

I'd also like to suggest that theLinked model gains Companion (Linked Model) (or maybe both models gain Companion (Linked Model)) so that the model being linked to isn't just dragging the other model around, but they can both activate together. This already happens with Totems like Grave Spirit or Essence of Power, if they are linked to a master or henchman. Perhaps we should extend it to all linked pairs.

While I'm on the topic of Link: I went to look for the wording of it, but, like the Mei Feng Lifer debacle, it's only printed as (0) Link on Soul Porter. So I had to go back to Rising Powers (or a stat card from a model from Rising Powers) to find a model with Link. If we're supposed to go with the newest printed wording of an ability, why are the printed wordings being omitted?

So let me reiterate my suggestion to drop the large picture on the stat cards, that takes up a quarter of the overall space available, slide the stat section to the left, move the Abilities and Triggers to the front, and continue them onward through Spells on the back.

I use toploaders for my cards. When it comes to fielding more than one of the same type of minion, I fold one in half so that the stats and wounds are showing, and slide it on top of the full picture side of a second card, where I can still see its stats and wounds, and all of the abilities, triggers, and spells are open on the back.

Like so:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13046[/ATTACH]

Moving things over might result in the backs of the cards being left blank on some models, which is fine. [In that case, I'd just put one facing one way with the other facing the other way in the sleeve.] Alternatively, on models that would end up having blank backs, just make half cards, like Yan Lo's Paths card, with the stats on one side and the rest on the back. [Then I'd either put two of the same model side by side in these sleeves, or maybe I'd use the smaller sleeves for each one.]

Thoughts?

[xKoBiEx]

Link is a very powerful ability that can and would be abused if it didn't end harmless. (0) actions, in general, I would say no to. They are one-use actions for good reason.

Colette, with your ideas above, would be almost unbeatable. Coryphee Duet would chain Showgirl Dummies around it and just smash everything.

[clockworkspide]

If nothing else, the Grave Spirit needs a price boost and the Malifaux Child a price cut. I'm thinking 2 SS and 1 SS w/ Comes Cheap, respectively.

[xKoBiEx]

How many masters would pay 2SS for Armour +2? Yeah, all of them. Good call, clockworkspide.

[i_was_like_you]

The +2 Armor only affects undead, though.

[tadaka]

Far as I know any time a new card is printed with an old ability you use the first rules printed. This only changes if the original model got a reprint. This was why irresistible did not change when litiu (bah i know im getting her name all wrong but i think you know who i am talking about the evil girl twin lol) came out. She was changed to match the older version on showgirls. This has been done a few times.

[i_was_like_you]

Link is a very powerful ability that can and would be abused if it didn't end harmless. (0) actions, in general, I would say no to. They are one-use actions for good reason.

Colette, with your ideas above, would be almost unbeatable. Coryphee Duet would chain Showgirl Dummies around it and just smash everything.

They don't just chain Mannequins around it now? And if not, what's stopping them with how it's written now? Smashing everything is a given, when we're talking about a 14ss model.

---------- Post added at 12:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 AM ----------

Far as I know any time a new card is printed with an old ability you use the first rules printed. This only changes if the original model got a reprint. This was why irresistible did not change when litiu (bah i know im getting her name all wrong but i think you know who i am talking about the evil girl twin lol) came out. She was changed to match the older version on showgirls. This has been done a few times.

That's when it all the changes happened, though, was book 2. A lot of models, at least in the book, had had different wordings than previous versions, so they ended up streamlining all abilities of the same name to have the exact same wording, regardless of model. But then there's a whole thread of Riposte not getting this treatment between three or more models (which can stay on that thread, thank you very much), which is leading to a ton of rules disputes, all because they don't line up quite like they should.

Regardless, my point is to spell it out on every card, so that we only have to look at the model to know what it does. In odd interactions with other models, we look at the cards of all models involved, read the relevant abilities, and extrapolate what happens from there. No more flipping through the Rules Manual, four books (and growing), erratas, clarifications, other models' stat cards (that might not even be in the possession of either of the players, or, even if they own them, they might not have brought them to the event), and so on. Just the cards of the models involved and maybe, just maybe, a well-indexed, comprehensive Rules Manual.

[tadaka]

I agree it should be on every card. I am yet to see wyrd ever post saying not to go with the original version of a ability rule so that's how I deal with it.

[xKoBiEx]

What I meant by the chain, was a 30 mm Harmless Armour chain (if link didn't kill harmless.)

[Alviaran]

A big personal annoyance is having a Master make a spell literally unable to be resisted by a given model. And in the case of something like Collette's Disappearing Act with trigger, it means you are losing the model with no counterplay even possible. Watching your Rail Golem don a dress and join the other side while holding a good hand is really disheartening. So, two ideas:

-For this particular spell/trigger, instead of just having my model disappear permanently for failing to resist, have me take a Df => 14 duel. If I fail, I never come back. If I pass, I still get buried, but I get to come back (as if she never got the trigger). If she got the trigger, she still gets to have the Mannequin though. It means I can hold a high card to save me when she hits that 24+ casting total.

-In general, have a Red Joker on resist flip ALWAYS resist, regardless of duel totals. It's a rare occurrence, but let's me fight back. It also adds cool defensive counterplay with the Red Joker.

As it is, the RJ on defense is just a high card with a suit to satisfy any defensive trigger you need. Meh. On offense, it has unique applications to damage. I'd like it to be unique on defense in some way as well. It means that when I'm holding it, I have what feel like unique ways to use it regardless of who is activating, tempting me to use it at different times.

And yes, Masters should certainly feel very powerful. I know that. But it just feels that Soulstones get REALLY swingy at times and can make it feel like there is no counterplay against them sometimes.

(Also, I speak specifically about spells here, despite the fact that Masters can also make it so you cannot defend against their strikes sometimes too. But I feel spells are the bigger problem because they tend to have some very debilitating effects at times. An attack is going to be damage and maybe a trigger. Yes, some triggers are REALLY mean. I've been playing a lot of Misaki so I know how dangerous something like Decapitate can be. But I'd rather have that coming at me than Pandora making me flee because she got her trigger and I cannot even hope to resist it)

I have a lot of other suggestions. I'll see if I can post some of them later. I did post a lot in that other 2.0 speculation thread (since I feel strongly about if I have a problem with the way something is, not to just complain but to put forth an idea of how to fix it/make the game better).

Edited April 27, 2013 by Alviaran

[D-A-C]

-In general, have a Red Joker on resist flip ALWAYS resist, regardless of duel totals. It's a rare occurrence, but let's me fight back. It also adds cool defensive counterplay with the Red Joker.

As it is, the RJ on defense is just a high card with a suit to satisfy any defensive trigger you need. Meh. On offense, it has unique applications to damage. I'd like it to be unique on defense in some way as well. It means that when I'm holding it, I have what feel like unique ways to use it regardless of who is activating, tempting me to use it at different times.

And yes, Masters should certainly feel very powerful. I know that. But it just feels that Soulstones get REALLY swingy at times and can make it feel like there is no counterplay against them sometimes.

I think that when the Red joker is played on defence it would be great if it was an auto-win for defender with no other card needing to be played AND allowing any defence triggers.

As you say, that way models without use soulstone abilities can perhaps get an opposing Master to burn a high card and possible an extra soulstone flip and can actually block it.

As you say, for some models it really sucks not being able to defend, or some models with Use Soulstones are a bit too auto-win sometimes.

Plus it fits well with Red Joker being the best card (and its only a 1 in 54 chance you'll get it per Turn lol).

Also, it would be nice if they modified RJ a bit on Attack and Defence as when they are flipped during an attack I really feel annoyed because I feel that its a bit of a waste getting 14 and a choice of trigger from it.

The RJ is the best card, so on attack it should be an auto hit with maybe a +damage and Trigger choice built in. That way your guranteeing a hit, probably at least a straight flip, any triggers necessary and hopefully get full damage from it.

That would make it useful on Attack Flips/Defence Flips and would Synergize with the Black Joker being an Auto-Fail, do not pass go, type card.

In the chance of a double RJ on Attack and Defence I would give it to the defence every time as that's just bad luck nulifying the Attack. Maybe that's biased, but sometimes Malifaux feels very killy at times(some games you lose models ridiculously quick to all types of shennanegins), so I doubt tipping one instance of RJ vs RJ towards the defence would ruin balance.

Edited April 27, 2013 by D-A-C

[Alviaran]

I don't want the RJ to be better on offense than it already is. The jokers can already be REALLY swingy. I just feel there is no counterplay sometimes and that adding that to the defensive aspect of the RJ doesn't make it too much swingier while introducing the way to fight against some things that there aren't currently.

[i_was_like_you]

In the chance of a double RJ on Attack and Defence I would give it to the defence every time as that's just bad luck nulifying the Attack. Maybe that's biased, but sometimes Malifaux feels very killy at times(some games you lose models ridiculously quick to all types of shennanegins), so I doubt tipping one instance of RJ vs RJ towards the defence would ruin balance.

Everything except maybe this. With attackers always winning on a tie now, I'd say that if both Red Jokers pop up in an instance like this, we'd just ignore any extra special rules we might modify them with. They'd just be 14 any suit, like usual. I definitely like where both of ya are going with this.

[xKoBiEx]

Personally, I would like to see a Red Joker defense be auto win, too. Currently, no model in the game can defend against a Perdita attack with a Red Joker attack flip and King soulstone flip (or vice versa.) Only a couple models can even negate the resulting damage. There would be more excitement to the game if a defender got a bone once in a while.

[i_was_like_you]

Defending / resisting against a 30 always sucks. So maybe there should be a chance like that. Especially dealing with crews with more than just the leader and totems as ss users, it gets more and more irksome.

[The Godlyness]

Personally, I would like to see a Red Joker defense be auto win, too. Currently, no model in the game can defend against a Perdita attack with a Red Joker attack flip and King soulstone flip (or vice versa.) Only a couple models can even negate the resulting damage. There would be more excitement to the game if a defender got a bone once in a while.

Lilith smites you as does doppelganger perdita (aka a mirror match) 34 is the highest her attack can go. Lilith can be at 35 ('dita also)

[Joel]

LadyJ can get to 40 on an attack I think...

uses sword style and flips+stones rams to go to cb13, then attacks and flips 13 and stones RJ.

....and still might only get a straight flip against the above due to virtue of her greatsword!