D-A-C

Hi guys. M2E Killjoy arrived for me this morning (what a model!) and I am planning on running him this weekend so I just wanted to clarify his Blood Price ability before using him. Blood Price states at the beginning of KJ's activation if it isn't engaged it must Charge if there is a legal target and that this action only costs 1 AP. So, would Killjoy have to charge a friendly model if it's within his 8" range (6Cg + 2Ml)? Because you can target your own models, with other abilities, so I am assuming you would be forced to do so with KJ's charge to? What is defined as a 'legal target'. Also, something discussed at my gaming group was that a 1AP charge still grants 2 Attack actions, is that true? I have never had a model with a 1AP Charge and haven't faced it either so wasn't too sure (anyone know the page or section this rule is on in the mini rulebook?). Finally, I'm 99% sure, but I might as well ask, Blood Sacrifice states this model may begin the game buried. Obviously the word 'may' means he can start on the table from First Turn, yes? Thanks.

Wow, I really hadn't considered Pine Box in that way before, great replies guys. Now that you all have explained it, and considering how powerful Paralyze is in 2nd because of having less turns, it actually is incredibly powerful potentially locking up a model for even a single turn and causing them to miss and activation. Plus, if your boxed model has the same willpower of 6, and you draw a 13, if you decide, it's not getting out bar a Red Joker, which even then is a hell of a price. Plus as stated, you can always 2AP rebox if you feel like being tricky lol.

Well spotted, didn't look at that part. Seems slightly excessive, but there you go.

The Undertaker ability I Can Use That states that you draw a card when a model is 'killed or sacrificed'. Discarding a corpse counter, which in this case is a mindless zombie, doesn't count as either of those things IMO, either killing or sacrificing so I doubt you draw a card.

Add me to those that dislike the change. Got the Flesh Construct w/ Victim and can honestly say the new card looks cheap as hell. If the change was made to save wyrd money, fair enough I suppose, I understand how small things can have a serious impact on overhead, but it isn't saving monbey or god forbid its more expensive, it is an rubbish and unneccessary change IMO.

With Pine Box offensively I am guessing the strategy is to simply find a 'big nasty' with lowish WP and stick them in the box and hopefully neutralize them for the game? As I said with Death Marshal discussions Pine Box 9/10 only gets talked about for transfering your own slow models safely to the front lines.

Hey guys I was eyeing up possibly grabbing the Lady J Boxset as I both like the models, but also could use some of it to add to my Ortega crews (particularly a Marshal or two and The Judge). However, after looking at the abilities of the Marshal is it really worth 6ss? And would it ever be worth it to buy all 3 of them for 18ss or are they now firmly in a 1 to 2 range? What do they bring for 6ss? 1. H2W - DF 5 - WP 6 : So they are mid range tough with decent WP, probably will take two AP from the majority of models to kill them. 2. Drop scheme markers upon death: Useful for a few schemes 3. Ml / Sh 5 attacks with 2/3/4 and 2/3/5 with Ram Critical and none built in. 4. Pine Box - Not bad, you can transfer slow models slightly faster, but as that isn't a big deal for me it would be used more offensively for me, and you don't see many guides or suggestions for how to effectively use it that way. That's sort of it. This model feels very much like a 5.5ss model, its probably too good to be a straight 5 but its lacking something to make it 6ss. Maybe a built in Ram on the peacebringer Sh attack would have made it solid 6ss territory. Anyone else agree?

CCK is Ht 1 so wouldn't count as blocking him even if perfectly positioned. But that kind of raises another point; seemingly the chances of a 30mm model blocking LoS to another 30mm is rare to impossible, as it would practically be unable to ever fully obsure another models base without even the tiniest bit still showing. Models would literally have to stand in a straight line to do so. I'm not complaining btw, I think walking soft cover human shields would probably suck, but I think for positioning purposes 30mm don't have to worry very much then about another 30mm model blocking line of sight. Suppose that makes 40mm/50mm even more valuable as they can literally block LoS entirely.

Thanks, seems surprising thats not the case. Strange that Seamus can't hide behind one of his Belles for dear life and use her as a human shield lol! Thanks for the quick reply.

Hi guys. If a model is between you and a target, partially covering it from LOS does the target model get Soft Cover? So for example: A -------------------------- C A B C A B C B So model A is shooting model C, but model B is between the two obscuring one side of model C's base from LoS. In this instance would model C gain soft cover. Thanks.

Seamus and McMourning Cards would still be nice McMournings could include making Flesh Constructs, summoning dogs, guild autopsies? As for Seamus... well would still be nice dammit!

Hey guys. I was just wondering if anyone knew the material used in the making of the official cards and then now to print double sided so they turnout the same (rather than sticking them together which I doubt is the actual method used?) The reason I ask is that when using Wave 2 models it feels really weird having cards made from A4 standard paper and even cutting them out and prit sticking them back to back still feels very meh when using them alongside the offical ones. Any help would be much appreciated.

I havent used this crew since the Wave 1 beta so I will be honest and say actually didn't realise that about Lure on Belles. So this is where I start to get bogged down, because its a walk and not a push, the only requirement being the walk ends as close as possible to the luring model you can: 1. Move around intervening objects/models, the movement would still have to be in a straight line as its the fastest point between A. and B. and all that, but you can take a walk over a height 1 terrain piece or circumvent a model between the Belle and the target. 2. Get disengaging strikes? That sums it up doesn't it? Or am I missing anything. Thank for raising that point, I was just going to use it as a push to be honest lol.

Had thought of that, but she is 6ss, could just buy a Dead Doxy for that and save all the bother. Its basically if there is a method that doesn't take you too far out of what you A. Would naturally bring B. Isn't too resource / Ap intensive. Don't forget Seamus, more than likely will have a chance to summon at least one naturally in every game, so its more of a first Turn try to sneak in a more valuable model (6ss) for less than the asking price. Its a good sign though that we have largely moved away from all that stuff in 1.5 of Kirai, McMourning first turn nuking things to get some 6-10ss of extra model for usually a Desperate Merc and something else equally cheap and expendable.

Would Sybelle going down a Corpse Bloat be too much do you think? Corpse Bloat is in of itself useful for exploding corpses too and Seamus tends not to use many Corpse Counters in a given game anyway (usually 2-3 I find unless you use Red Chapel Killer of course). She features in 90% of Seamus lists, is comparitively cheap, 8ss (10ss with Bloat) although that immediately drops her down to 6 Wounds which isn't the best for 10ss investment. I am trying a Nurse in lists this week so healing is available, but your losing a full activation to heal due to paralyze on Take Your Meds Heal, and your into more card resources / AP if you go down the healing up route. There is always the middle option I suggested, take a dog, shoot it with 50. and baring a black joker its dead as min dmg is 4, then arise my sweet and continue with turn. This saves you two SS unless you need to burn 1 for a crow suit, but you still save 1 which is a bit meh. EDIT With this method you could combine it with the Found a Bone method, as draw your control hand and if you have the necessary crows your home free and can keep the dog, and if not just slaughter it.

Some good responss guys. What do you all think of my summoning suggestions? Can you uys think of a good one that is cheap on AP and has decent reliability for a good Soulstone Saving, that way you can first turn summon one rather than pre-purchase so to speak?

This could sound really condescending (it's not meant to be lol!) but how did you lose Seamus on Turn 1? Don't forget you can burn SS to prevent damage if your getting wittled away, and with Impossible to Wound your opponent can't cheat damage, and Hard to Kill as a last line of defence and that's not even considering Mad Haberdashery or Sinister Reputation upgrades for damage prevention and more healing. Anyway, some models that work well with Seamus are: The Hanged - Works well with anybody really its just solid as a model, plus a few nice Wp Horror duels and stuff that Seamus likes in his crews Yin - Again, just a solid all round model with some nice Wp related stuff Dead Doxies - Seamus can summon them and they have a very nice debuff on their more advanced Lure Crooked Men - Excellent survivability vs Shooty crews due to their many buffs against ranged attacks, as well as some solid abilities (a really underrated model I find) Flesh Construct - Its cheap, solid and with 13 Wounds and basically regen 1 as it heals of its poison, it is an excellent damage sponge, and as its a 40mm base can be great for Seamus to Back Alley behind to get out of LoS. Nurses - They are apparently solid models in this edition, although I am yet to try them. Canine Remains and Necropunks are ok models, but they don't really do anything specifically for Seamus . If your planning on using Molly down the line then Crooligans and Rogue Necromancy could world well with Seamus. Crooligans have some great abilities for 4ss and a Rogue Necromancy is just a solid big nasty model. Hope that helps.

Hi guys. I am planning on giving Seamus a go this week for the first time since the Wave One Beta. Now, with access to all the finalised Wave 2 Beta models aswell, I was kind of curious how you guys use Dead Doxies? I had mentioned during W2 Beta that I thought they were a just a tiny bit little light for 6ss, and currently I am struggling to imagine why I would actively pay 6ss to start a game with one. Obviously I could see myself summoning one off of a Corpse Counter at some point naturally in a game, but that's not the issue. So I'll give a quick over view of my interpretation of the model, and would love it if you guys could add some thoughts about how to use them, their strengths and weaknesses, plus this will have the benefit of having a nice resource to base the Dead Doxy pullmyfinger wiki off of, as it is currently empty. So my thinking is a Dead Doxy has to be situated against a Rotten Belle, in other words why bring along a Doxy at the start of a game and not just a Rotten Belle which is pretty solid all round for 5ss?: Mobility Both possess the exact same Wk and Cg characteristics and both benefit from Sybelles Cathouse Madam ability for +1Wk so there is no difference between the two in terms of movement. Defense Compared with a Belle the Doxy has +1Df and + Wp which is good, but is also unfortunately -2 Wounds with only 6. They both have H2W which is solid but the Doxy, unlike the Belle, comes with a Defense / Willpower Trigger Hands Off! which with a Mask which allows the Doxy a 4" push if damaged by an enemy Attack. The only other thing of note, is that a Doxy, when it dies it makes a single model with 4" Fast for the Turn, which can be a nice little bonus giving perhaps a high power model in your crew an extra AP. Overall then there isn't much seperating these two models defensively, they are about as solid as each other given the buff on Df and Wp for Doxies at the expense of a couple of Wounds. The Doxy may just have the edge due to the Trigger that allows them to get a push after taking damage, but as it requires a Mask it isn't a given, so it's only a slight edge in the Doxy's favour. Offense Both models possess the Pounce ability, and crucially both models also can take advantage of the ability internally during their own activations and both possess a means to get an enemy model to move into their melee range via a Push ability, so they are even here. In Melee the Doxy has a clear advantage with a Ml of 6 vs the Belles 5 and a damage track of 2/3/4 vs the Belles 1/3/4. Both posses triggers on their single Melee abilities, with the Doxy gaining a positive to damage with a Ram, and the Belle Preventing opposing models from taking Walk actions on a crow. In terms of abilities The Doxy only possesses one, Take the Lead, which on a successful willpower duel allows the Doxy to Wk and then push the target its Wk in any direction, so its an advanced type of Lure, albiet with 8" less range at only 10". However, the ability does also have a Trigger, Confusing Feelings, which on a Mask gives the opposing Model a negative to all opposing duels in which it is the defender for the rest of the turn, a very, very nice ability. Although just to reiterate that is only on a Mask, however there shouldn't be too many other models in the crew competing for them which isn't so bad. On the other hand a Belle possess the extremely powerful (some people might even say OP) Lure with a Ca of 8 and Range of 18, in most instances if a Belle can see it, she can Lure it, and if you manage to Lure with a Crow you force your opponent to discard a card aswell which is always nice. The Belle also has the ability Undress, which gives an opposing model the Slow condition on a failed Wp Duel. Its hard to say that either model has a definitive edge in terms of offense. The Doxy is packing a better Ml and a more advanced Lure with the possibility of a nasty trigger, but is that worth an extra SS of base cost? The Rotten Belle may do nothing flashy but it is solid all round and 9/10 Lures what it wants, when it wants. Summoning Summoning might seem like a bizarre comparison, and in fact its not a comparison at all as Seamus summons any Belle in the same manner, however, what I am interested in, is are there ways to summon a Doxy that would make the whole point of starting a game with one vs a Belle a redundant argument. In otherwords, what resources / costs are necessary to summon a Doxy on Turn 1 with Seamus? Method 1 - Buy a Canine Remain (4ss) Turn 1 Activate Canine and Found a Bone requiring a 8+ of Crows, then Arise My Sweet with Seamus requring either a 9+ of crows or a +9 and a SS. So the total cost then is always a full models activation (Canine) and 1AP of Seamus + either two 8+ Crow Cards or a minimum of a single 8+ Crow and a 9 of any suit + a SS. With this method you save either 1 or 2ss for the above exchange in terms of cards and activations. Method 2 - Buy the cheapest Rezzer model to kill and then summon a Doxy off of it. A canine remain is probably best because of its stats. Seamus then uses 1 Ap to Flintlock the model (cheating up and down as necessary to win the duel) and then 0 Arise with a 9+ of Crows or a 9+ and a SS. In this method you only need realistically a single low card in case you need to cheat the Canine Remians down due to a spectatcular draw for its defense, and then a single 9+ of crows or 9+ and burn a SS and Seamus uses 1AP. So either saving 1/2 SS with this method. Method 3 - Purchase Corpse Bloat for 2ss and place it on either Seamus or a Henchman of your choice. Use the 0 action Corpse Bloat, then have Seamus 0 Arise My Sweet This method is relatively cheap and requires no actual AP, spending only 3 wounds on the Corpse Bloat model and 9+ of Crows or 9+ and a SS. So you could save 3/4 SS using this particular method. Conclusion I had mentioned in the Beta I thought Doxies lack just that little something, nothing much, but just a tiny, tiny tweak to justify that 6ss starting cost over 5ss. Comparing them, I don't feel I am wrong (on card at least) but that may have more to do with Belles being too solid for their cost perhaps? Now, it should be pointed out summoning a doxy as an action of opportunity mid game when corpse counters start appearing naturally is completely fine. I am curious about either starting with one over a Rotten Belle or spending resources with the intention of gaining one first Turn. So what do you guys think? How do you use your Dead Doxies, do you think they justify 1 extra Soulstone over the hiring of a standard Rotten Belle, do you have any methods other than what I listed to summon them first turn?

Hi guys. I have been shuffling through the boards old posts because I haven't been here in a while. I am noticing, that in the 2E there is an awful lot of positive responses towards Nurses, not just for McMourning, but also for Masters such as Seamus. I was just curious if any of you could share some of your tips, strategies, because atm I am not seeing Shennanigens with them just by looking at their stat cards. The only way I can see using them to Heal, would be to take Chiaki to remove the Paralyzed Condition, but that is costing you an extra 6ss. What am I missing here guys, what are the Nurses doing for you?

Hi guys. I absolutely hate working with metal, pinning is a pain, and models lovingly painted eventually chip. So I have made a commmitment to only use the Plastic Kits. So far I have the Seamus and McMourning Starter Sets along with all the plastic Yan Lo crew (boxset, Yan Lo, Izamu etc). So in order to add to my pool of models I have been taking a really taking a long hard look at Killyjoy. Not only do I love the model, but ruleswise he seems really solid. 0 Action 2/3/4 Heal (his only zero) 4/5/7 Cleaver that allows free Healing on Kills and with a tasty repeat action Trigger Terrifying (All) 13 Black Blood Can Start Buried Enforcer Those are just a few of his highlights. So I was wondering, do you think, at a hefty pricetag of 13ss (base 12ss +1 Merc Tax) he stands up to the other heavy hitters we have such as Izamu or possibly the Undead Rider? What Masters do you think get the most mileage out of his inclusion? Personally, I find that few of the Rezzer Masters are dependant of large fixed crews and can often slide by with a few cheap minions and an appropriate Henchman. As an Enforcer that gives him access to Rez Upgrades, even though he is expensive, would Corpse Bloat be nasty considering his 0 Action heals and high Wound Count or are there any other shennanigans you guys can think of? So what do we think can Killjoy bring anything to the Rezzers or do we already have enough in house that we don't need to bother.

What??? How is her min damage of 4 in any way too high? And how is she an 'auto include' auto include in every NB list. Lets compare her to Teddy and Mature Nephlim, both of which are in the ball park of being similar and are both 2 SS cheaper. Compared to Nekima: Teddy Stats Compared to Nekima: -2Df, -2Wp, -1 Wd, -1Wk, +1Cg / Does not have Flight Offense: Smell Fear - a potential free ML strike for a failed enemy WP duel Hug - A Ml 7 2" strike with 4/5/6 dmg and a Trigger Flurry Gooble You Up - Free movement for a better chance of activating Flurry and + to Att and Dmg flips Defence: Impossible to Wound Terrifying 13 (All) Regen +2 Heal 1/2/3 (On a Trigger) Mature Nephilim Stats Compared to Nekima: -1Df, -1Wp, -2Wds, 0Wk, +2Cg / Also has Flight Offense: Monstrous Talons - Ml 6 2" strike with 4/5/6 dmg and Triggers Flurry Built in + on Monstrous Talons Att Flips Defense: Black Blood Terrifying 12 (Living) Armour +1 Nekima Offense: Melee Expert Melee Master (potentially ... costs death of Lilith by Nekima) Lorelie - Ml 7 3" Strike 4/5/6 with Triggers Blood For Blood - Suffer one damage to give one damage Defense: Black Blood Regen +1 Heal +2 (On a Trigger) So Nekima is two SS more than Teddy or a Mature Nephilim, what exactly makes her so much better than those two similar models? She has a few buffs like melee expert instead of flurry, a few better stats, but her defence is weaker, and she is costing you +2 extra SS. She is also missing useful things like a way to generate positive attacks (outside of burning a SS further adding to her cost) or Terrifying, both of which the other models possess. I'm not saying she isn't a good model, she is, I have used her and cleaved my way through minion models, but she is very delicate and if activated too early will die a swift death. I'm failing to see how she is an auto-include in almost all Neverborn Crews outside of perhaps Lucius? She is very Strategy/Scheme specific and needs the rest of the SS in your pool spent around her to help her maximize her potential.

Hi guys. This is something I don't quite understand. The Black Blood Shaman (as of final beta at least) has an ability called Black Blood Pustule, which on a crow trigger, heals the target friendly model 3 Wounds, but only after having dealt that friendly model 1 damage in exchange for 2 Black Blood Damage to surrounding enemy models. So here was what happened in game that was confusing. I had a terror tot surrounded my two opposing models with only a single wound left. I targeted my Terror Tot with Black Blood Pustule and activated the trigger Clot which, after succeeding allows the Tot to heal three Wounds. However, as the tot only had one wound remaining, the initial one damage I inflicted on him due to targeting him with the ability reduced him to 0 wounds. So, in that situation is he allowed to heal, or does his being reduced to 0 wounds cancel the trigger that allows him to subsequently heal 3 wounds back. Thanks.

Yeah, but in order to get much use out of it you have to spend 2ss and bring his cost up to 11ss thanks to the upgrade My Favourite Shovel so you can double Walk then use it otherwise you've only moved 4" if you single Walk and use it. Plus it uses a 9 so it isnt exactly automatic. That's not a terrible idea admittedly, but why should a 9ss model be forced to take 8ss worth of models to be good (usually you need x2 Canine Remains realisticly to avoid having one shot to pieces)? So your 9ss model does nothing for a Turn? That's almost 1/5 of the crew, its not so bad if your running Bodyguard as you can keep him somewhat back churning out Corpse Counters, but a 4ss Canine Remain has the same action for the same cost minus the built in crow. I understand the built in crow is a BIG difference maker but still, wasting your entire activation with a 9ss model to dig up a corpse isnt great IMO, thats why so many people attach Corpse Bloat to him so he can still move, interact, drop scheme markers etc. That's a somewhat useful trigger, but it doesnt help Mortimer in the immediacy of the combat like Madame Sybelle's Trigger's do for example. So he might very well produce an additional Corpse Counter ... himself, and he can't be resummoned (how cool would it be if there was a Living and Undead version of Mortimer and Nicodem could raise an Undead Mortimer back to life!) Again, its useful, but 9ss useful? Well it does in the sense that Sybelle and Sebastian start with 1 and 2 extra SS in their cache's respectively so that is an extra Upgrade or 2 paid for right away. True, but I'm finding that without H2W he actual gets alot of straight flips against him if your not careful and his Regen 1 doesnt cut it, especially considering he can't benefit from Decay or Rigor Mortis from Nicodem to help him out with either Healing of Fast. If he dies in CC that isnt really a good use of a 9ss model IMO just to get a Punk Zombie to Flurry something. And as I said your really risking him throwing him out there for a full activation while you wait for Nicodem to s Mortimer's also a Henchman, so can carry the likes of Decaying Aura. Combine *that* with the Punk Zombie, and suddenly the Flurry is a little scarier.

Hey guys. Exactly what the title says. How on earth is Mortimer 9ss? He has practically zero defence with thanks to no H2W, because for most of the major melee or shooting nasties defence 5 is no barrier for their 6's and 7's. Sure he has 11 Wounds and Regen 1, but a Flesh construct has 13 Wounds, Regen 1 (thanks to Poison) AND H2W and all for 3ss cheaper. Ok, well maybe his offence makes up for it ... nope. Shovel isnt bad with 2" range, melee 7, but its trigger isn't that much help to Mortimer in CC with something nasty, unlike Madame Sybelles Whip which has useful triggers (and even though you need to by a Bleeder Lash Upgrade it still brings her 1ss cheaper than Mortimer). He can throw Poison ... great that'll stop the Viks, Taelor, Lady J etc charging and killing stuff next turn ... or maybe not. Well, I suppose he also has ... no actually nothing else, a moderately useful Shovel that suffers due to his limited number of AP and a poison ranged attack that is not very useful. Well, at least Nicodem can speed him up with Rigor Mortis ... oh wait, he can't because Mortimer is living, so that's no help. I guess I'll have to pay 2ss extra to have Mortimer walk twice and use Fresh Meat. That sure is 11ss well spent. Honestly, compared to the two other Henchmen Sybelle and Sebastian, how is anyone using Mortimer? I know you can use Corpse Bloat on him, but that plus his extra Ca Action Upgrade puts you at 13ss which is never worth it. So its either one or the other. I suggested it in another thread (that has no responses yet) but it would be better to put Corpse Bloat on Nicodem because he rarely dies in game, has zero CC ability and so could use Corpse Bloat if absolutely stuck, then you could have Mortimer first turn poison Nicodem so he gets regen 1 for three turns thanks to one of his Upgrades. But that's beside the point. There is simply no way I can see that Mortimer justifies his 9ss cost let alone 11ss with an Upgrade or worse 12/13ss. So, am I missing something, or is Mortimer just poor for his cost? Overall he seems like the makings of an 8ss model that needs a few tweaks, but at present I dont think he is worth it at all. Edit Also, unless they edited this in final edition (I'm using Beta) he also has the lowest starting Cache of the 3 Resser Henchmen AND he costs more than them, whilst doing less. So he isnt even good running as a Henchman, especially consideing he has no summons, so one of his abilities is useless on his own.

Hey guys. I was just wondering has there been any news about any dates for future plastic releases? It feels like forever since Gencon and I wasn't particularly thrilled by what was on offer there. I know its great they are taking time and making sure the releases are done correctly, but I'm just curious when we can expect anything new. Thanks.