Location of some general rules

[Letifer]

I was looking at the misaki card from the new ten thunders box, she has wicked and reckless. I know what these rules do but where do you find them in the books? I could not find one mention of either of these rules. Appreciate any help.

[Alviaran]

Other cards. Honestly, that's where I've seen them. Every general rule needs to be easily referenced in the rulebook and they aren't. I wanted to check Lifer at least once and everywhere just says Lifer. I had to go find another model with it to check what EXACTLY it worked on.

The Rules Manual was a great step forward for the functioning of the game's rules but is TERRIBLE as a reference. Whenever a MK2 rolls around, I hope they take a page out of Privateer's book and let the index actually work to find these sort of things.

[Idreamofchompy]

Both of those particular rules are never mentioned in any of the table of contents for any of the books including the rules manual. to find them you have to refer to individual model descriptions. Any gremlin model has reckless written out on it (at least in the books) and for wicked you will need to look at even more specific models (Lilith, Lord Chompy Bits, Lelitu, Lilith Avatar, Shikome). There are other models that have wicked but no description to go with it (Seamus Avatar, McMourning Avatar, Yin the Penagalan, Mr. Graves, and Misaki)

[Letifer]

I love malifaux but that is a terrible way to get the rules. Luckily with the books I can look up wicked under the models, plus I already had gremlins so I knew about reckless. Obviously this would be really confusing to someone picking up misaki as their first box though.

[arkno]

there is a little game helper at the end of the manual and 1.5 version with all those little infos you seek just after the table of content.

[keroro623]

I think lifer and reckless con be found in the outcast V2 card pdf

[Marcalla]

It might be nice to have a downloadable with all the "abilities" on it and in one place. Lifer and Reckless being two of more than a few abilities with no description in the basic rules documentation. (I don't have the 1.5 book)

[Omenbringer]

Neither Lifer or Reckless are in the 1.5 edition Malifaux book.

[i_was_like_you]

Or, oh, I don't know, maybe just print the whole abilty on the card. We don't really need 2 pictures of the model when one will do. Reformat the cards a bit and maybe make them a wee bit bigger.

[Mordeqai]

Or, oh, I don't know, maybe just print the whole abilty on the card. We don't really need 2 pictures of the model when one will do. Reformat the cards a bit and maybe make them a wee bit bigger.

We have two pictures?

[i_was_like_you]

Yeah, the one that takes up a quarter of the card (half of one side) and the one that is on the stat side where the wk/cg, cb weapon(s), wds, etc, are. Let's get rid of the one that takes up a quarter of a card.

[hackdZ]

I second the desire for a reference sheet that contains all the common abilities and triggers. (I have found some online, but they don't contain everything)

It's actually kinda mind-boggling that Wyrd didn't think to put these somewhere in the rulebook, they should be there, either in the index, or in their own separate chapter specially for Abilities.

(When I first started playing I had no idea what Flay or Critical strike did, had to download the card pdf's to find them)

[Omenbringer]

It's actually kinda mind-boggling that Wyrd didn't think to put these somewhere in the rulebook, they should be there, either in the index, or in their own separate chapter specially for Abilities.

(When I first started playing I had no idea what Flay or Critical strike did, had to download the card pdf's to find them)

Uh they did...

The vast Majority of the "Common Abilities" are located in an appendix in the back of the 1.5 Edition Malifaux Book, The Mini Rule Book and the old Malifaux Book.

[Ryu]

I wouldn't call that the "vast majority"; there's a good bit left out there. It is still useful, but not complete - which almost defeats the purpose of a reference guide because then people stop referring to it.

[Omenbringer]

I wouldn't call that the "vast majority"; there's a good bit left out there. It is still useful, but not complete - which almost defeats the purpose of a reference guide because then people stop referring to it.

I would be willing to wager that the number of "common" abilities not referenced in them is a very small amount (less than 5 of the "common abilities").

Only Reckless and perhaps Wicked are common enough to really warrant future inclusion. Even those though are clearly described else where in the book though (Wicked in both the Lilitu and Lilith's entries and Reckless in the Gremlins and Pigs).

Aside from those two notable exceptions there really aren't that many "common abilities" (present on more than a model or two) not covered in the current Appendix. I would be willing to bet that these two appear in the next version though (as they have become more "Common").

[Letifer]

No matter how uncommon an ability is if the description is not on the card it should be in the rulebook under the abilities section. No player should be left wondering what the rule is and have to search the net for the rule hoping that someone in a forum asked the rule.

[i_was_like_you]

No matter how uncommon an ability is if the description is not on the card it should be in the rulebook under the abilities section. No player should be left wondering what the rule is and have to search the net for the rule hoping that someone in a forum asked the rule.

That's why I say no matter how common the ability is, it still needs to be written on the card. Knowing what it does, by itself is useful in general, but when we need to see specific wording, to see how it may or may not interact with other rules and abilities, we shouldn't have to hunt down another model that has it spelled out or even a quick reference sheet or an index just to find it. Want to streamline play and make it more accessible to new players, especially those who may not have a local group in the know to teach them, print it on the cards.

[Kadeton]

Yep, I agree that all abilities should be printed, no "common abilities" that have to be looked up.

[Ryu]

Agreed. It's not like there's not enough space on the cards for most minion models. Some masters you'd have an issue - maybe.

[i_was_like_you]

Agreed. It's not like there's not enough space on the cards for most minion models. Some masters you'd have an issue - maybe.

Maybe is right. Unless we're talking showgirls. Then it's definitely.

Still, reformatting the cards so that we only have the smaller illustration on the stat section of the card, to differentiate different versions of the same model, instead of wasting a full quarter of the card on the larger illustration would be nice.

[Omenbringer]

No matter how uncommon an ability is if the description is not on the card it should be in the rulebook under the abilities section. No player should be left wondering what the rule is and have to search the net for the rule hoping that someone in a forum asked the rule.

They are in the models description in the relevant rule books. The only ability that was difficult to find was Drifter and that was because the ability was not relevant once Rising Powers hit the streets (Notice that it isn't even in the Ronin's description in the new 1.5 edition). Add in that with each new model release more abilities are added making a "cheat sheet" less quick reference and more unweildy (look at the fan made Monsterpocalypse quick reference sheet to see a demonstration of how unweildy a complete list can be).

With that said even though the abilities appendix is available, 9 times out of 10 if there is a question in regards to an ability it is easier to go straight to the models actual description or the Model Clarification/ Faq/ Errata Docs rather than to it.

Agreed. It's not like there's not enough space on the cards for most minion models. Some masters you'd have an issue - maybe.

Wyrd has done a great job of actively trying to keep the cards from being cluttered and difficult to read.

As a parallel think back to the days of Warmachine/ Hordes Mk 1 (granted a different system but...) when models had full descriptions on each card and they had to reduce the font size to accomodate everything for ease of reference (making things more difficult to read even with good young eyes). There is a reason that their "common" abitilities where reduced to symbols in Mk 2.

I understand that we disagree on this (and that isn't a bad thing at all) however I am a big fan of the reduced texts allowed by the use of "common abilities". If anything where to really change with the cards I would rather see them printed from an online repository (with any current updates). Wouldn't mind the the option to easily add/ upload personalized model art rather than the stock images.

[Kadeton]

Wyrd has done a great job of actively trying to keep the cards from being cluttered and difficult to read.

Personally, I find that nothing is harder to read than text that isn't there.

Seriously though, I would much prefer that cards were kept uncluttered by keeping the number of rules on them reasonable, not by omitting the descriptions of those rules. Book 2 Masters were particularly egregious in this regard, and the trend now seems to be going away from wall-of-text cards like Hamelin - yet even on cards where there's plenty of room, we still have these shorthand references that require a lookup.

I am a fan of your online card campaign, though.

[Marcalla]

The problem is that we've now got models with abilities that are "common" and that aren't described in a "common" space with no reference as to where we might look for said "common" ability.

If you are going with "common" abilities (which I do really really like) then you need to have those "common" abilities described in the main rules appendices or at the very least a reference point on the cards to point you to the right direction.

[Omenbringer]

The problem is that we've now got models with abilities that are "common" and that aren't described in a "common" space with no reference as to where we might look for said "common" ability.

If you are going with "common" abilities (which I do really really like) then you need to have those "common" abilities described in the main rules appendices or at the very least a reference point on the cards to point you to the right direction.

So to move forward (and makes this constructive for any Wyrd employees that might be lingering in the shadows) what are the "Common Abilities" that aren't listed in the Appendix (aside from the aforementioned Reckless that could be in there and perhaps Wicked which I wouldn't consider common at all)?

[decker_cky]

Lifer really needs to be in there now that Mei Feng has it without description.

[Omenbringer]

How many models in the game have Lifer?

1. Convict Gunslinger
   
2. Taelor
   
3. Mei Feng

I am away from two of my books so can't reference Twisting Fate or Storm of Shadows at the moment (but can only think maybe Sue also).

If it is that few models then I wouldn't consider it "common" at all (though could agree that it should be written out on the card, if it isn't in Mei Feng's Storm of Shadows entry).