misaki vs perdita

[verdinx9]

Perdita is overpowered as hell i want to state that first and foremost. She pretty much killed misaki in one hit, she then killed one of my ten thunders archers in one hit. I have never been as ****ed playing against anyone else then perdita. She needs to be balanced.

[Boshea]

Most people consider Perdita underwhelming at times, but I believe that comes more from trying to play pure family. Pretty much any guild model can one shot an archer with ease if they're out in the open. They want to be hiding in cover to increase the odds of Hasty Retreat. Perdita can ignores this, but her CB will be the same as an Archer's defense.

Perdita and Misaki are fairly evenly matched. They stand equal chances of hitting each other, and similar amounts of AP. Miskai also has Armor 2 until she gets Perdita in melee. Through a combination of "You're Mine" and either of her CB triggers you stand a fairly good chance of taking her down in melee. You'll two shot her with moderate damage, and as long as you can hit her once she can't cheat her defenses without going into Defensive formation first. The trick with guild in general is simply getting into melee.

[Ratty]

The question I have to have is how much terrain do you have on the board? Generally when Perdita is seen to be too powerful in an area, it's due to the group using far too little terrain. Misaki is a fairly good match for Perdita.

[Hoyled]

What Ratty said is pretty much my experience. If the board is barren the Ortega gunline is close to unbeatable. Its how my first experiences with the game went and nearly ruined it for me. So break things up as much as possible.

After you've got enough Terrain use it. Toroswap misaki forward then ninjas dive your opponents models through the wall. Smoke bombs can help cut down on the few remaining fields of fire.

The key to killing Perdita is judging when your opponents hand is weakest and hammer her. Preferably with Misaki herself. Try to hit the decapitate trigger as much as possible and remember to Your mine Perdita for the positive flip.

[dgraz]

Perdita is overpowered as hell

OP? No. Best master in the game? HELL YEAH!!! (Please disregard my avatar for purposes of this comment)

[EnternalVoid]

Perdita is overpowered as hell i want to state that first and foremost. She pretty much killed misaki in one hit, she then killed one of my ten thunders archers in one hit. I have never been as ****ed playing against anyone else then perdita. She needs to be balanced.

Alright lets break this down a bit further. I will start off by stating that I don't think Perdita is overpowered, nasty, sure, but not OP. She might be hard to hit but when it starts happening she tends to drop faster then most masters with her 8 wounds and no real damage reduction outside of evassive and soul stone reduction. Her defense is not to be hit, when it does happen it tends to stick. Anyhow, Breakdown;

You said she pretty much killed Misaki in one hit, a bit of a surprise if this was at range. With the built in Critical Strike her damage spread is 3/4/6, with an additional +1 for any extra Rams. With Bulletproof 2 Misaki does have some armor against this as long as it is outside of melee and gunfighter. So even if she gets an extra Ram and manages Severe damage against Misaki at range, it is only 5 wounds. It will take at least 1 more of these to drop Misaki and she still has the possibilities of damage reduction with Soulstones on both. Now if the Red Joker comes up, lets be honest but the Red Joker is the bane of anyone's life in this game. The sheer upswing on damage output is sick. Before any Critical strike, Perdita's damage goes to 7-10, with at least +1 from critical strike, often +2. So even at Worse case that might come up Perdita plays the Red Joker, had an extra Ram in the attack, and flipped a second severe for the extra damage. That is 12 damage, with Misaki's Bulletpoof reducing it to 10. Ya that is oneshot with out Soulstone reduction, but at the same time that is also the Red Joker and pretty much the worse case that could be in this. These things happen with the Red Joker is used or flipped.

Now if this happened in melee, then ya, it will hurt a tad more. But much like Misaki is sort of a martial arts flying whirling death blade, Perdita is a shoot them to hell and back sort of gunfighter. She has some other tricks but at her core she is a lethal person with that pistol.

To One Shot the Archer, She would have needed Severe damage and the +1 from Critical Strike. But again that is Severe damage. With Severe damage Misaki one shots the archer in melee.

Much like Misaki, if the Perdita player gets lucky, gets a decent hand, and then possible refine it, she can be all sorts of deadly till she blows through those cards. But there are ways to try and minimize her offensive powers. As said, Torakage can help. Possible use of Smoke bombs by them, maybe with their trigger for added length of concealment, can prolong Misaki's life. Despite having two pistols on her Alt model, Perdita does not have paired weapons. Meaning any sort of Cover you can get will hurt her offense. The smoke either means she can't see you, or if you think she will move to see you then you can stand in it and just get the cover. A negative to the attack flip for Perdita will stall the shot, and if he really wants to take it he will have to cast Bullet Bending first. That is a 7+ he needs, and his CB drops to 5, giving you the slight advantage in the duel. It means if you both use the same value of card you win, or even a value one less then Perdita you win. It also increases the likelihood of him having negative flips to damage if he does get through. Which increases the odds of getting weak damage. Even with an extra Ram on weak damage she is not doing alot to Misaki. Also with out Instintual, having to cast Bullet Bending means she can't use the other three (0) Actions she has.

With Your Mine, it is not that hard for Misaki to possible get Strait Damage flips for all her swings that do hit a target. Her first can be a charge, giving a positive flip, then after that you can have the Your Mine for positive damage flips. With only 8 wounds and damage reduction flips from Soulstones, she can't take alot of hits. And each Soulstone she uses for damage reduction is one less she is using to blow your brains out. A Severe and a weak, or two moderate, will kill her unless she reduces it. Your Mine can also be used defensively, as if you are in combat with one of his models and you use the action on it, then Perdita can't charge on in with out suffering that negative flip to hit, and if she shoots she might hit her own model and you still have Bulletproof.

[dgraz]

Nice breakdown EternalVoid.

[T4ngo]

I played recently aginst perdita with misiaki, and pertia herself is not the real threat. She stays out of trouble while nino sniper my whole team down.

10T have low wounds and nino shoots 2 shots of his own and due to aim he hits everything. And then perdita obey him to shoot again, and then her totem obeys him aswell.

And you cant take pertita out with ranged attacks, so Misiaki need to get into melee with her, or some realy heavy beatstick as ototo, but if the perdita players guards her well its realy hard to kill her.

Misiaki can jump in and attack her 3 times 10 inches away, if she failes then she is dead, and if she sucessfully kills pertita the opponent have 1 turn to end misiaki with his executioner, before you can pull her out with a ninja.

But by this time half your team is gone due to nino already.

[Adran]

Nino is very annoying, and the whole Ortega clan can be tough to deal with on an empty board. If you are facing them then you need to make use of terrain. Its also worth remembering that if Nino can shoot Misaki, and she can reach him to hit him in melee.

Smoke bombs are obscuring, so will reduce shooting as well as he can only see upto 3" into a smoke bomb. If I remember correctly they will last until the Torkage activates again(possibly on a trigger), so it doesn't matter if you win or lose iniative, you can advance with huge reductions in enemy shooting

Misaki has a defense that is the same as Perditas attack, so she will typically be at a negative flip for damage, so typically doing 4 damage. For her to be hitting you with a cheatable flip after she has used a ram to get +2 damage from critical strike you have either got to have had really bad luck to her good luck, or used up your hand and cache already. (And if thats the case, then learn for next time to save them for such a circumstance)

So don't dispair, Perdita isn't as hard as she may first appear. Yes, the guild can do lots of damage, and she is hard to hurt, but killing isn't the aim of the game (unless you're doing slaughter or somethign similar) so focus on your victory points and keep out of clear line of sight to Nino

[Odin1981]

Why are you complaining about nino when you have smoke bombs that can last till the next activation of a model? How can you not figure out that a ten thunder brother companion of 2 torakage (one bury's to jump out 8" further into the board) into a misaki activation gives you around 20-22" of threat range with diving attack? I would suggest you read your cards and then read them again. Because your master and crew can be taken in a way that would just curb stomp a ortega crew if you actually bothered to see what you could do with them with just a little bit of reading to see how you can deliver stuff into them with no reprisal.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Odin1981

[Setoth]

Maybe we should all tone down the rhetoric just a little. It might be a bit better to open up with "I'm having trouble fighting X Master with my Y crew, a little help" than to proclaim a Master to be OP or imply a single model will always eradicate half your crew. Similarly suggesting someone hasn't "bothered" to read their own cards is a little bit much.

On both accounts, Malifaux is a pretty steep game with lots of special rules and a learning curve. Some people figure out the curve better than others, some Masters are easier to understand on the lower end of the learning curve. It can be frustrating, but that complexity is half of what makes the game fun.

Re Nino: Nino is mean, but he has a couple of significant weaknesses the 10T should be able to exploit.

1. Squishy: He's got def 4 and 8 wounds. He has no real defensive abilities other than the fact that he can ignore disengaging strikes with a 0 point action. If you get to him, killing him should not at all be a problem.

2. Slow: He's got a wk of 4. Even with Scout, which just helps in terrain, he's incredibly slow. Once Nino gets in trouble he's gonna have a very very hard time getting out of it.

3. LOS: Unlike Perdita, he has absolutely nothing that can counter smoke bombs.

What I'm getting so far from what I'm reading is two possible problems. Either you're not playing with enough terrain, you haven't quite gotten a handle on the smoke bombs, or both. Even if Perdita wants to shoot through the smoke she has to lose 2 CB to do it, which puts her down to CB 5. While respectable, your Torekage will be at Def 6, which means she's at a small numerical disadvantage. The odds of needing to cheat or Soulstone just to match you go up significantly and all it's cost you is a Tome card for the smokebomb. Nino can't even do that properly. If he can't see you, he can't shoot you. And he's far too slow to properly reposition for a decent shot if you're smart about smoke bomb placement. And that's just one smoke bomb. If you cleverly use terrain, that single smoke bomb (which is a 0 point action, for the record) is all you need to get high cover from both of them. Hide from Perdita's guns behind terrain you can drop a smoke bomb wherever necessary to avoid Nino. Or vice versa. Either way one Torekage is causing a lot of chaos to the Ortega gunline by threatening a 7 soulstone model that stands little to no chance of hurting your ninja (again, assuming good smoke-bombing and terrain usage).

Equally important to note is your mobility. Torekage move 5/8 which is fast. You can use Shadow Stride which means you have a pretty hard core threat-range. Let's say you have a Torekage move 5 inches, pop a smoke bomb, and use Mistaken Identity to swap with Misaki. She can move another 10 inches (or 15 if she takes a wound or has Yamaziko) to get dangerously close to Nino while still hugging terrain. That's about 15 - 20 inches of movement for her. And then another Torekage uses Shadow Stride, buries, and at the end of the turn pops somewhere within 8 inches of your Misaki. That's a LOT of ground to cover.

Now that's not something to be super reckless about. Don't assume you can pop a Torekage in front of enemy lines and then just kill Nino right after. But it should give you an idea of how you can reposition your entire crew a LOT better than the Ortegas can. If Nino's further behind than the rest of the crew because of his gun range, smoke bombs and zippy movement can get you past the Ortegas real fast and immediately have a small strike team assembled behind their lines. The Ortegas have staggered speed and you can use that to your advantage.

[dgraz]

Nice post Setoth......all around.