Hamelin and Nekima - could we get an approximate update timeline if possible?

[Sybaris]

Hello,

I was just wondering if it was possible to get an approximate timeline for the update to Hamelin and Nekima. Back this summer, both were mentionned as getting their turn eventually.

I understand this takes time, so I am not in a hurry or anything, but it'd ease my mind if i had an idea of how long the wait would go for those two. I believe i am not the only fan as well, hence this post.

Thanks for any imput.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Sybaris

[Sliver Chocobo]

When was the said?

[Sybaris]

It's in the FAQ rule sticky:

click here for thread

Item 6

6. Never fear, Hamelin and Nekima will get their turn. [...]

Again, i am not hurrying anything, but i look forward to this and it's been a while so i thought i'd ask for a hint.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Sybaris

[Orboros]

There was also an interview with a Wyrd employee who stated that they are working on Hamelin right now and that we can expect changes in the near future. Sorry for not posting the link but im on my phone and have no time searching it in the forums. Should be on Malifaux Matters page 2 or 3.

[Kadeton]

I suspect this is a large enough problem that it's on a "done when it's done" timeframe. Major changes like we all expect for Hamelin would take multiple rounds of playtesting. I agree it would be nice to know what stage of the process they're currently at, though... have they settled on a new core mechanic, are they somewhere in the initial design stage, the playtesting stage, fine-tuning, who knows?

Nekima has a barely tenable position, to my mind - the fluff posits her as the former leader of the Nephilim by ferocity and fighting prowess, yet she's clearly inferior to Lilith in a fight (if for no other reason than she can't use Soulstones). To make her fluff seem plausible, she would really need to gain Use Soulstones and probably up her combat stats - but do the Neverborn really need another big melee beater when the Nephilim crew already has the Matures (who are better in combat and cheaper, but still a bit pricy)?

It seems like Nekima was designed specifically to make the Growth list viable instead, which is a neat concept... yet almost nobody takes Growth lists because there are so many significantly more powerful options in the faction. It might be more viable if Nekima was cheaper, but then we're really getting away from her fluff as a ruthless fighter and putting her more into a motherly (albeit monstrous) role. It's hard to say what would be best for the game.

[Wake of Godzilla]

Just to add my thoughts as well it would be great to see something - I really like the idea of both these models but as things stand I wouldn't pick either of them up. No one would want to play me if I had a Hamlin crew and Nekima needs some tweaking.

So it would be great to get some new rules for them!

[Kadeton]

Hamelin is so rare in my area that people are usually pretty keen to play against him, simply because they haven't seen him in action before. I find it helps that I play him with just his Book 2 minions (not taking advantage of his Ht 1 hiring ability), don't take advantage of the fact that he can generate ludicrous numbers of soulstones, and generally play him the way I feel he was intended rather than to the full extent of shenanigans permitted by the rules. That usually makes the game more fun for everyone - and if the opponent manages to win, they get a kick out of beating the "overpowered" Master.

It would be nice to not have to add those artificial restrictions, though.

[Sybaris]

House rules and self-imposed restrictions can work for some time, and serve to ease our mind and be patient until the official word is out.

But it'd be much easier to wait if we knew a little timeframe for it to happen. There's a difference between "when it happens" and "around next summer", at least from a fan point of view. I don't expect nor ask for a precise date either, so that the devs have all the time they need...just a bone before christmas

Edited November 15, 2012 by Sybaris

[notmikehill]

It took a long while for Nekima/Lelitu to get the cuddle bat. It also took a good amount of time for the Alp cuddle as well. It's all a matter of time! I believe that perhaps they'll make sure the model is viable before making it cuddled.

It seems to be a trend whenever a model is fixed a lot of players don't approve and internet pitchforks and torches are drawn.

[Sliver Chocobo]

It took a long while for Nekima/Lelitu to get the cuddle bat. It also took a good amount of time for the Alp cuddle as well. It's all a matter of time! I believe that perhaps they'll make sure the model is viable before making it cuddled.

It seems to be a trend whenever a model is fixed a lot of players don't approve and internet pitchforks and torches are drawn.

And when they don't change

[Sybaris]

There's no way to satisfy everyone, that's obvious. But i am not talking of knowing what's going to be changed and to what extent, i was just wondering if we'll have to wait for a year or if it's coming in the next months, that kind of thing.

Say for example, if it's due in a year or so, i'll continue working on my house rule project, but if it's coming within around 3 months, then my priorities will be different.

no torches and pitchfork involved

[Omenbringer]

It seems like Nekima was designed specifically to make the Growth list viable instead, which is a neat concept... yet almost nobody takes Growth lists because there are so many significantly more powerful options in the faction. It might be more viable if Nekima was cheaper, but then we're really getting away from her fluff as a ruthless fighter and putting her more into a motherly (albeit monstrous) role.

I would say its more because the Terror Tots are amazing in a lot of situations (especially when you consider Nekima costs as much as 4 of them plus 1 SS for the Cache).

I would also say that her high cost is probably attributable to the theoretical SS savings she can generate in a Grow list (3 for each Young and 4 more for every one that makes it to Mature). Between Nurture Nephlim and Nephlim Heart it is ridiculously easy to Grow then Mature a Terror Tot to Mature Nephlim (providing you can pay the Blood).

[Korrosion]

I dislike sounding like a fanboi but I encourage the "do it right the first time" approach to Hamlin. I also enjoy playing against him as he stands, it feels like Malichess.

[Sybaris]

In my opinion, Hamelin is harder to fix than Nekima, and probably more important for Malifaux as a whole due to the impact and interactions he has (he is a master, has an Avatar model and many minions tailored for him, after all). At worse people see him as a NPE, while Nekima is sometimes seen as a wasted purchase.

From what i can tell, both models are playable, that is not the issue...but their performance is either too good in a case (Hamelin) or too limited and out of theme in the other (Nekima).

[Joel]

In my opinion, Hamelin is harder to fix than Nekima, and probably more important for Malifaux as a whole due to the impact and interactions he has (he is a master, has an Avatar model and many minions tailored for him, after all). At worse people see him as a NPE, while Nekima is sometimes seen as a wasted purchase.

From what i can tell, both models are playable, that is not the issue...but their performance is either too good in a case (Hamelin) or too limited and out of theme in the other (Nekima).

Fixing Hamelin might also be important for wyrd - know lots of people who would buy and use the crew, but are all waiting for him to be "fixed" first.

[nerdelemental]

Be patient. Necessary revision of specific models is very much on our radar and the wheels are turning rapidly. Hamelin's revision, in particular, is very cross-model and so takes a bit more time, discussion, and testing to ensure we get it right.

Thank you all for understanding.

So: soon.

[Joel]

Be patient. Necessary revision of specific models is very much on our radar and the wheels are turning rapidly. Hamelin's revision, in particular, is very cross-model and so takes a bit more time, discussion, and testing to ensure we get it right.

Thank you all for understanding.

So: soon.

many thanks for the update

paitience not a problem, I'd rather have ir right than have it fast.

[Korrosion]

Be patient. Necessary revision of specific models is very much on our radar and the wheels are turning rapidly. Hamelin's revision, in particular, is very cross-model and so takes a bit more time, discussion, and testing to ensure we get it right.

Thank you all for understanding.

So: soon.

That you (Wyrd) are considering a cross model fix is encouraging to me. It makes me think he won't be "Alp'ed" with his fix. Is it to much to ask if "soon" means before third quarter 2013? :Paralyzed_Puppet:

many thanks for the update

paitience not a problem, I'd rather have ir right than have it fast.

Right is better then fast although perfect is the enemy of good.

@Nerd, I'm just giving you a hard time. I mean no offense. I'd rather have it done right and on "valve time" then have another alp situation happen to a master. For example the fixes to Dreamer/LCB were done correctly I think; a subtle cuddle that allowed players to continue to play him as they had, if they were willing to pay the increased cost of doing so while still leaving viable his non-abusive abilities. Thumbs up for those changes.

[Twisted Metal]

Nerdelemental, any idea when the RM's will resume answering / resolving some of the more hotly debated and outstanding rules questions?

[Sybaris]

Be patient. Necessary revision of specific models is very much on our radar and the wheels are turning rapidly. Hamelin's revision, in particular, is very cross-model and so takes a bit more time, discussion, and testing to ensure we get it right.

Thank you all for understanding.

So: soon.

Excellent, thank you so much for the reply

[nerdelemental]

Glad you all seem on the same page with us. We do want to do it right. Not "fast" and not "just give the loudest guy his way" - we know the crew slipped a bit through the cracks of the first playtest (Outcast models have a tendency of that) but now we're entirely focused on him and bringing him in line with everyone else. He should still be strong but not stupid. And he should have good matchups and bad. Players should not flip game tables if you put his crew on it.

Nerdelemental, any idea when the RM's will resume answering / resolving some of the more hotly debated and outstanding rules questions?

Pshuh. No idea. We're busy as a dung beetle in a pole barn over here...(and this is a good reminder of why I don't want a stupid RM badge!)

Sigh. PM me a link to any of these "Hot" topics and I'll see if my stick can reach the hornet's nest.

---------- Post added at 05:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------

That you (Wyrd) are considering a cross model fix is encouraging to me. It makes me think he won't be "Alp'ed" with his fix. Is it to much to ask if "soon" means before third quarter 2013? :Paralyzed_Puppet:

Yes. within a year. I promise.

[Omenbringer]

Players should not flip game tables if you put his crew on it.

Come on it was just the one time.

Pshuh. No idea. We're busy as a dung beetle in a pole barn over here...(and this is a good reminder of why I don't want a stupid RM badge!)

Sigh. PM me a link to any of these "Hot" topics and I'll see if my stick can reach the hornet's nest.

Might want to take a gander at the newer Avatar Viktoria's thread (this is another of the long time questions seeking resolution that has poped up a few times since release).

Yes. within a year. I promise.

Please god let it be so (and hopefully sooner).

[Sybaris]

One update down (which was a success imho), so only one left to go.

Ressurectioning this thread to re-iterate the title's request if at all possible for Nekima's sake, information would help with the wait.

[micahwc]

One update down (which was a success imho), so only one left to go.

Ressurectioning this thread to re-iterate the title's request if at all possible for Nekima's sake, information would help with the wait.

Agreed. One of the many reasons I check the forum every day is to see if her update has been released. The other reasons are because the forums are awesome, and I get bored easily at work.

[amor sanguinis]

Agreed. One of the many reasons I check the forum every day is to see if her update has been released. The other reasons are because the forums are awesome, and I get bored easily at work.

+1