First Pandora in the local meta - how to avoid a NPE?

[calgary_cat]

My question about her is:

If she's known as a Negative Play Experience Master, what type of crew would still be fun to play around her without being overwhelming to other players?

My local meta has the following regulars:

• Ramos
  
• Hoffman
  
• Perdita
  
• Dreamer
  
• Nicodem
  
• Lillith
  
• Jakob
  
• Kirai
  
• Lady Justice
  
• And my normal crews: Seamus, McMourning, Leveticus, Colette, Von Schill, and the Viks (I've been playing mostly Levi lately)
  

[Boshea]

Fun is unfortunately subjective, but really the best way to avoid it is by not capitalizing on dominating WP duels. Pandora is a NPE primarily for two reasons. The first is that she generally punishes you for trying to play the game. Every WP duel failed within her aura hurts you, which can cause your crew to slowly whither away if you by simply having some bad WP flips.

The second is she plays a very strong control game, which psychologically almost always has a negative effect on players. Its a weird thing really and their are a couple of MTG articles that explore it. The short version is that a player is more upset when you stop him from casting a creature, versus immediately killing the creature after it hits play. The ability to either dictate the activation order of models, or even effectively stop a model from taking actions at all is generally un-fun. Her other annoying features are that you are often punished for taking strong melee minions against her, and general difficulty to directly target her.

There is also the ever present "OMG Nevaborn mastas are so OP, blargl blargl blargl...." that comes with the faction in general, but there isn't a whole lot you can do about that as a player.

[notmikehill]

As a Neverborn player and Pandora being my first master I can say that if it's a newer player, you'll be having an easier time against him as he learns the subtle rules to her and tries to work on her combos and composition, etc.

That being said, it's one of those master you Dread facing but in the long run you'll become a better player. Her denial is the worst in the game and like Boshea said she is very familiar of Control Decks from Magic in days of old. Learning how to play against her and understand how to dismantle her force will make your meta and play group healthier and more well rounded group.

As a Pandora player, people usually take out the models with force and maneuverability. By focusing on models that require WP duels or force duels upon you you're neutralizing that force before Dora can get to the center of the action mid game.(usually turn 3 or so) Blowing up models that cause you grief and focusing heavily on your strategies, you should be able to out-maneuver the crew and just focus your way into a winning position by doing that.

[calgary_cat]

Thanks for the advice guys! We're all pretty comfortable with rules and our normal masters after a few months of playing, so I'm hoping that Pandora will have a graceful entrance into rotation. I'll let you know how it goes once I've received her package, and painted the crew up.

[notmikehill]

Also, here's a good link to her general playstyle and generalizations of her abilities.

http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/Pandora

knowing is half the battle!

(G I JOEEEEE!)

[Ratty]

Thanks for the advice guys! We're all pretty comfortable with rules and our normal masters after a few months of playing, so I'm hoping that Pandora will have a graceful entrance into rotation. I'll let you know how it goes once I've received her package, and painted the crew up.

I think one of the issues with Pandora is she can throw out a silly number of actions a turn eg. free push when you win a Wp duel, ability to use Pacify again if her Pacify works etc. This can cause an immediate WTF response in players. Possible get some AP counters which you can use on Pandora turn to keep track of things. Explain what your doing.

Also it's important to know when things trigger.. She only gets a push when she wins a duel that she is using Wp in, not every duel where someone uses Wp. So she won't get it if she succeeds in casting a spell. The enemy take a wound when they fail a duel which they are using Wp in.

[Lordgimpet]

I find that when I use Pandora against people who have never faced her before, that the biggest hurdle is negativity that has often been seeded as the player has heard stories or read posts about the woes of facing pandora. So there is this fear that permeates just from mentioning her name, though as each new book release comes she really is not to be a feared as she still is.

I find that minimising the fears before you begin helps make the game less a negative experience, I have even taken the time in some cases explaining how she works and what I will do with her in the game, and point out her strengths and weakneses to boost confidence. Then during the game make it a fun experience for the player facing pand.

TBH, with all my games the biggest NPE from my opponants has been mostly from Colodi, Lilith and Sonnia Criid.

But I wish you luck and hope it comes out in a positive outcome.

[harbinger]

On upside you indicated hoffman will be one your opponents. The wp immunitites in his crew can put pandora in her place.

[FearLord]

On upside you indicated hoffman will be one your opponents. The wp immunitites in his crew can put pandora in her place.

If Pandora is in range to use a Wp ability on you, you have no immunities to Wp...

[96p]

The best way is to be open about your abilitys, help your opponent to recognize hear weaknesses. She's only NPE if your enemy doesn't know how to work against her.

[dbr_83]

That's an excellent point 96p. It's just rather unfortunate that Pandora's reputation usually precedes her, you will find people who have it fixed in their heads that she is broken/cheese/NPE et. al. and no amount of openness will fix that. I have had both experiences, and she was the first master/crew I chose. A friend also chose Dreamer/LCB at the same time. Neither of us knew how the game worked, let alone the masters, and yet we have both been labeled power-players and worse by some people who just won't accept we chose due to aesthetics alone. It rubs me the wrong way and is really quite sad

[xKoBiEx]

That's an excellent point 96p. It's just rather unfortunate that Pandora's reputation usually precedes her, you will find people who have it fixed in their heads that she is broken/cheese/NPE et. al. and no amount of openness will fix that. I have had both experiences, and she was the first master/crew I chose. A friend also chose Dreamer/LCB at the same time. Neither of us knew how the game worked, let alone the masters, and yet we have both been labeled power-players and worse by some people who just won't accept we chose due to aesthetics alone. It rubs me the wrong way and is really quite sad

Aesthetics are the first thing, after the similarities to Mordheim, which drew me to Malifaux. I will not play a master if I don't like their model line. So, I will never inflict an NPE on anyone with Hamelin, for example, as I don't like most of the miniatures in his line. That said, I LOVE The Dreamer's miniatures. Once I get rolling with that crew...sorry. Pandora, I must admit, is a master that I have ordered the box set for...but that is only because I wanted most of the Neverborn options and want to start a Day Care list with The Dreamer, Candy, Kade, Teddy, and a Widow Weaver (Nanny) who makes more Teddies. The list is probably crap compared to most Dreamer lists I've heard of, so I don't think anyone will be crying NPE out of it.

[96p]

The best way to counter that is to take a master they feel is weak and rip their asses open

[xKoBiEx]

The best way to counter that is to take a master they feel is weak and rip their asses open

Cheers and Cheers again to that! I love using crap lists to smash face. I often play lists with no magic items in Warhammer to rub in that tactics are more effective than power listing.

[BumpInTheNight]

The best way to counter Pandora is to do basic melee/ranged attacks that don't involve willpower. At least that's what everyone does to me.

[dbr_83]

But the simple act of targeting Pandora forces a wp-wp duel, which is the main cause of people gnashing teeth, ripping hair and crying to their mothers... They always (conveniently) forget she has a Df of 2 lol. Blast her, every faction has a blaster of some description. But no, I have faced maybe 2 people that have tried (Von Schill's Flamer and Sonnia Criid + 'splosive Witchlings)

[LupusFerreus]

TBH, with all my games the biggest NPE from my opponants has been mostly from Colodi, Lilith and Sonnia Criid.

This made my day.

[Barbagianni]

If they do not hate you for playing colette, why should they hate you for pandora? *wink*

[crohn]

The best way is to be open about your abilitys, help your opponent to recognize hear weaknesses. She's only NPE if your enemy doesn't know how to work against her.

Yes, that's the point.

I'm still trying the game proxying models (I'm still deciding what faction and master to start) and yesterday I fell in love with Pandora.

I played with Ramos against her and it was the best game I ever had.

I really like her mechanics and style. (yes, I used to play blue MTG Illusion of Grandeur decks...)

cheers

[Korrosion]

As someone who is looking forward to starting Pandora this thread is useful.