pushing across terrain

[ommadon]

Ok my search-fu for the forums is not that strong. With the bonuses from EBO I have picked up Pandora and I got a quick question about her movement. The board I play on tends to have lots of terrain of various heights, read that lots of cliffs. Now the rules I can find says if you're moving over gaps and changing heights your movement is cut in half,unless you have jump, flight, float, etc. So if you push Pandora around, or any other models as well, over the gaps in terrain is the distance of the also cut in half?

[Sybaris]

a push down a gap might damage your models (see the rules for falling) depending on terrain elevation (from 3 and up).

The (2) jump action can be used to move half your walk and down or up elevations.

Climbing up or down costs 2" of Wk per inch climbed.

[Piranhamoose]

If you move out over a gap, you can elect to fall down instead of climbing down, this means you don't spend movement changing your vertical height. If you're pushed over a gap, you have to fall. If you have Flight or Float, I don't think you take fall damage, but all other models that fall 3" or more take a damage flip of 2/4/6 for every 3". Jump costs 2 ap so it can't be used if you're pushed. What it does is allows you to fall while reducing the number of inches fallen by the Ht of the model jumping. So a Ht 2 model can fall 4" without taking damage.

[Sybaris]

As a side note, the fall damage take place from terrain Ht 3 and up, which is not always 3 inches depending on where you play (for example here we decided every .5 inch is 1 unit of terrain Ht, so you can take damage from a fall of 1.5").

This is why it is so important to identify terrain elevation on your game board, so both players know beforehand.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Sybaris

[ommadon]

I guess what I'm really asking is if there is a gap between similar height pieces of terrain whatever the height is, such as two cliffs that are 3" apart, and you push a model is on the edge and you push it 4" would it go 2" and fall, or would it go the full 4. The height of the terrain isn't really important and I know about the falling damage.

[tadaka]

If it had a gap it would fall down and need to climb or jump back up the other side if like pandora it does not have fly float

[Sybaris]

Here the way we resolved those cases is that the model would fall down (and potentially take damage) and continue the push from there, but simply stop if it connected with another piece of blocking terrain. It wouldn't "climb" up the blocking terrain during the push. Is that correct?

[dgraz]

The question is a Push.

Pushes are now Placement Effects. If you were to Push 4", you would pick the model up, and Place it anywhere within that 4". A gap between two buildings wouldn't affect that.

[The Godlyness]

? how are pushes placement effects?

to my knowledge they are not lets see

ophelias oooh a girl is pick up model place in BTB ignoring terrain.

pandoras is a a push that is not in btb with anything or any one so is effected by terrain.

ryle just pushes from nearest living thing also not BTB thing so also effected by terrain.

lure is a push and is effected by terrain.

only time a push is not effected by terrain is when it says x model is placed into btb with y.

[dgraz]

It's clearly spelled out in the clarification / FAQ documents in the download section.

[Kaled]

As a side note, the fall damage take place from terrain Ht 3 and up, which is not always 3 inches depending on where you play

Has this changed or been errataed somewhere? The Rules Manual states 'A model falling at least 3” suffers a Damage Flip of 2/4/6 for each full 3” fallen' - so is in terms of inches rather than Ht.

[roboshmoo]

Dgraz,

The clarification for push in the Faq only appies to when the ability specifies pushing into base to base, or a push to within a certain distance of something( such as the victorias ability ), all other pushes are still affected by terrain and such.

Edited September 11, 2012 by roboshmoo

[dgraz]

I believe it is in inches.....but Ht is done by inches, so Ht 3 should be 3"...no matter where you play.

[tadaka]

He had me digging in the changes trying to figure out where he got that. Ya +1 on this answer its for 2 specific types of pushes not all push moves.

[dgraz]

He had me digging in the changes trying to figure out where he got that. Ya +1 on this answer its for 2 specific types of pushes not all push moves.

Yeah...that's why I did it....yeah....just to mess with you....yeah...that was it..............................:facepalm: sorry

[Sybaris]

@Dgraz

The rules manual mentions that terrain elevation should be agreed before the game, or use its height in inches as Ht (p.58).

Its not a mandatory convention and i am very glad for it, because the 1:1 suggestion creates completely illogical and aesthetically unpleasing situations where a certain model can hit stuff 7 inches above ground.

It also proves unpractical when using terraclips, which have 2 inch walls. this lead to falling damage never applying unless you build 4 inch tall structures (which a Ht2 Rg2 model can reach with melee strikes if you consider it Ht4).

[ommadon]

so let me get this straight pushes that say "completely within" or things that say btb ignore terrain while ones that just say a distance DO NOT ignore terrain

[tadaka]

Basicly yes.

[The Godlyness]

Well if you read it again.

Pushes into Base to Base

When an Ability tells you to Push a model into Base to Base, simply Place the model so it's touching the base of the target model

For instance link. Or ooh a girl.

Otherwise standard pushes like lure, Pandora's fading memory are not place effects.

[dgraz]

Its not a mandatory convention and i am very glad for it, because the 1:1 suggestion creates completely illogical and aesthetically unpleasing situations where a certain model can hit stuff 7 inches above ground.

That's why models have a pre-defined Ht.

But you are right about it not being mandatory.

It just doesn't make sense to me to say...well this piece of 2" high terrain will be Ht 3 so you can take falling damage. It is just more intuitive to me to have the actual height of the terrain be the Ht of the terrain.....obviously some rounding would need to be done with home-made terrain....2 3/4" would be Ht 3.

Personal preference though.

[Sybaris]

I didn't want to bring this off topic but...yeah, models have pre-defined Ht, and i came to the conclusion that 0.5 inch was better per terrain Ht exactly due to that; Look at Tailor and place her against a wall that is 5" high. I don't know about you but it doesn't make sense to me that she can reach people that are there with a hammer.

Glad the push thing was pretty much resolved though.

[Dogmeat]

I have to agree with Sybaris. For scale for most games I build terrain as 1"=5' (so that a 2" tall wall would be a 10' wall). For Malifaux, the average model is height 2, which using that same scale would mean that the average person in Malifaux is 10' tall instead of closer to 6' and based on that a wall intended to represent 10' would need to be closer to 4". Sybaris' "scale" of .5 inch per Height with terrain would really work better with my terrain (and most any non-custom built terrain) than actually measuring inches.

Although, for simplicity we just measure in inches and have very stumpy buildings (or very tall people).

[dgraz]

I have to agree with Sybaris.

Although, for simplicity we just measure in inches and have very stumpy buildings (or very tall people).

Kinda my point. Nothing wrong with doing it any way you want, but for ease of play you just measure.

When I'm looking at the board and trying to decide if I want to climb over something I don't want to suddenly realize that I forgot that the piece of 2" terrain....which I should be able to get on top of in 1 action to start shooting people...is actually Ht 3.

With everything there is to remember in this game...having terrain be not what it looks like is just one more obstacle.