Gencon Masters Tournament Predictions

[DeleteAccount]

That's... pretty damn disgusting actually. I'm sort of surprised that ability hasn't come out more in balance debates.

[Bucket Monkey]

I can honestly say in 2 years of playing I've never played against the poltergeist once, will recomnend it to put local Pandora player, most take the primordial magic instead.

[Guy in Suit]

I played like an absolute chump on Sunday morning, and don't infer it had anything to do with my faction - making very basic rules mistakes which cost me models and VPs. Mr. Crawford played his game and made me pay - he could have been playing a crew of Malifaux Children and stood a decent chance!

(It didn't help that I was popping tums all weekend on the verge of vomiting - Does the race car fuel run off the track and into the drinking water in Indianapolis?)

[Forar]

That is one hell of an ability.

Congratulations on making it to the top 4 Shadai, and sorry to hear your final match was a negative experience. Tournament or not, lucky to be in the spot or not, it's never easy to get blind sided by something you feel utterly powerless to overcome.

I wonder what matchups would do favorably against such a list? Seems likely that this isn't the last time such a list will hit the table at a tournament. Are there any masters/minions that would do well being given free reign to activate in full at no cost to themselves?

[Adran]

For whats its worth I think it was a risky tactic, as the showgirls could potentially got a duet casting Orcestral cresendu 2 or three times against the un activated block.

It would involve killing a performer to give a corephyee re-activate, but since you get get a duet about 24" down table in 1 activation (including the formation), giving it a second shot has a high probability of causing much death.

Of course i am looking with hindsight, and probably wouldn't have thought of that as a route normally...

[Boardgameguy]

That's rough Shadai, but again congrats on making it to the top tier. Seems every year we see some different shenanigan brought from a local group. Reminded me of a recent steampunk themed mini's game I played at our local FLGS, dusted off my models went and played and remebered how much I dislike the, I move my whole crew then you move yours mechanic.

I've been thinking about how I would have played it. I know he had bodyguard but he would have grown impatient (maybe) if you just sat in your backfield and defensive stanced passed a couple rounds. Or maybe future tourney's will start having people save the bodyguard scheme till late so if they turtle up you can as well. Try to wait them out to show their hand first. It seems playing this way seriously undermines how the game is to be played to begin with.

[Forar]

If nothing else, it'd be a pretty anti-climactic game to watch, at least until the end.

3-5 turns of "pass, go" while playing chicken with trying to figure out what schemes/aspsects of the strat you can complete without interference in the last turn or two.

Though I did have an interesting game playing Guild versus Outcasts that played out similarly. We had the Stampede special event and shared Recon (I think? The one where you need to hold 3-4 quarters for points), so we just manuevered for the first 4 turns or so, then the last 2 were a flurry of activity and combat. But I probably wouldn't have wanted to spectate the first 4.

[nix]

It was a Poltergeist and Shadai was playing Webster (bunniegod) who won the masters last year. Very tough opponent for someone who a lower number of games.

Poltergeist was the model referenced.

Aside from that, I am getting on the road for the drive hoe so will post more when we get the final gencon stats up.

[nilus]

It was a Poltergeist and Shadai was playing Webster (bunniegod) who won the masters last year. Very tough opponent for someone who a lower number of games.

Clearly you are mistaken, all my paper work says Dan Weber.

[Boardgameguy]

Aside from that, I am getting on the road for the drive hoe so will post more when we get the final gencon stats up.

And looking forward to the gencon recap podcast

[ravenborne]

Don't feel bad. You were playing our local Atlanta champ, David Webster, now 3 time running Gen Con Master's winner. He is absurdly good at this game and plays the best faction. He has never lost a Malifaux tournament that I know of, and around here the rest of us just play for second place.

---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

I should note not many people realize who he is, as he doesn't post on the forums really and seems to be unknown or unpopular with the podcaters. I wish someone would interview him.

[nilus]

I should note not many people realize who he is, as he doesn't post on the forums really and seems to be unknown or unpopular with the podcaters. I wish someone would interview him.

It doesn't help that he went around telling people all weekend he was Dan Weber

[ravenborne]

Hah! Yeah, for years everyone kept getting his name wrong so he just owned it.

[bashamer]

re-reading what I was doing I'm really happy I lost my masters game. I had a lot of rules screwed up.

Altough aColette is speaking a lot more to me these days, lots of neat shenenigans that you can do with them

[Mydnight]

It doesn't help that he went around telling people all weekend he was Dan Weber

Coulda sworn I fixed that....

[Mach_5]

The poltergeist ability has come up before (ie here), but no rules marshals have responded that I've seen. I think it was a legal move as written.

[Shadai]

Thanks for the support guys!

But seriously, I don't feel bad at all. I was just happy to be there!

I don't think I got cheated or anything. I think I just really didn't understand what was coming my way and I got blindsided. Webster at least apologized after he asked if I knew what Pandora/Collodi did and I replied Kinda and no. I thought he was a class guy, just very competitive, which again, was what I was expecting to play in the Masters.

You know in hindsight a Duet bomb might have worked, but A) didn't think of it at the time, and since I didn't know what his models were capable of, if I did think of it I probably would have dismissed it as an overly risky move.

I guess that would work if the following is true:

1. If I kill the Performer and she can give Reactivate to a Coryphee, which when it later forms to be the Duet it gets to keep Reactivate (otherwise, range and logistics might be a problem).

and

2. If six wounds would be enough to kill the majority of the army.

It wouldn't be a bad tactic if it played out right. But it's an all or nothing deal. You are going all in, soulstones and all. Best case: Colette ices the performer, gives reactivate to the coryphee, coryphee activates, sword dance, use soulstone, shambles twice, other one dance partner, uses the 0 action to get the :masks to ca and cb, move, attack. Reactivate it, crescendo 3 times using SS each cast. Cassie activates (hopefully remembered to push her straight at the army to start), nimble move another 5, hopefully that is within 18 for her to dance partner, follow up with SS augmented Flame Breath for blast.

Possible really. I'll try it next time I face that (if I ever face that kind of army again), but at least the next time I'll have the foresight to know what I'm looking at. All part of the learning experience.

[Sybaris]

Then Pandora wanders over by where my Duet was, and starts casting bad $$$$$$$$. I'm flipping decently, but I need a bit more so I reach for a soulstone and say "I'll use a soulstone."

He looks at me and says, "You can't."

I'm sure I had a quizzical look on my face when I replied "They have Use Soulstone."

"No, you didn't say you used the ability."

"I used it on the Corphee before they danced together."

"No," he said with emphasis, "You didn't actually say it."

This is the part i don't understand. What must you say beforehand in order to use soulstones with the coryphée? I can't find anything but i am no colette player.

[Cunning]

This is the part i don't understand. What must you say beforehand in order to use soulstones with the coryphée? I can't find anything but i am no colette player.

You need to announce they're using the action which gives them use soulstones. Just as you would have to for any action that any model wishes to use.

Edited August 21, 2012 by CunningStunt
Brain fart..

[DeusInnomen]

You need to announce they're using the action which gives them use soulstones. Just as you would have to for any action that any model wishes to use.

A lot of us are so used to playing certain models and always activating certain abilities of theirs that we start to forget to actually announce it because "why wouldn't you always use that ability?" I'm guilty of this with the Witchling Stalkers and their Disrupt Magic (0) action. I saw at least one session during the tournaments where another player did this with triggers on Wicked Dolls and Marionettes. It was a source of frustration for the opposing player and it was complicated by the fact that the player in particular had never actually played against Collodi before and didn't know the abilities of its forces.

So, long story short, we all need to be better about always declaring a Trigger when it's being used (even if it's cooked into the stat) and if we "always use an ability" it needs to be okay with your opponent up front. This will avoid completely unnecessary arguments and frustration, which is a better experience for both players and us tournament judges.

[Adran]

Thanks for the support guys!

But seriously, I don't feel bad at all. I was just happy to be there!

I don't think I got cheated or anything. I think I just really didn't understand what was coming my way and I got blindsided. Webster at least apologized after he asked if I knew what Pandora/Collodi did and I replied Kinda and no. I thought he was a class guy, just very competitive, which again, was what I was expecting to play in the Masters.

You know in hindsight a Duet bomb might have worked, but A) didn't think of it at the time, and since I didn't know what his models were capable of, if I did think of it I probably would have dismissed it as an overly risky move.

I guess that would work if the following is true:

1. If I kill the Performer and she can give Reactivate to a Coryphee, which when it later forms to be the Duet it gets to keep Reactivate (otherwise, range and logistics might be a problem).

and

2. If six wounds would be enough to kill the majority of the army.

It wouldn't be a bad tactic if it played out right. But it's an all or nothing deal. You are going all in, soulstones and all. Best case: Colette ices the performer, gives reactivate to the coryphee, coryphee activates, sword dance, use soulstone, shambles twice, other one dance partner, uses the 0 action to get the :masks to ca and cb, move, attack. Reactivate it, crescendo 3 times using SS each cast. Cassie activates (hopefully remembered to push her straight at the army to start), nimble move another 5, hopefully that is within 18 for her to dance partner, follow up with SS augmented Flame Breath for blast.

Possible really. I'll try it next time I face that (if I ever face that kind of army again), but at least the next time I'll have the foresight to know what I'm looking at. All part of the learning experience.

For what its worth I would play the bomb as follows.

Link Manniquin to corephyee, try to bash performer (although getting the models to ignore weak damage could be very useful at the end for keeping you alive). Linked corephyee sword dances and trys to get masks. Walks past performer and hits her getting extra push try to leave performer below 3 wounds. Continues walk to be 18" beyond other corephyee.

Colette gets reactivate, switchs positions with the manniquin and then again with Cassandra.

Performer tags a corner for power ritual if possible. If its not, then it can be used to walk forward, and siren call the unactivated corephyee nearer the middle. If you are going this way, you can move the original one a little further forward

Dove magician duels Peformer to death, gaining a soulstone to put reactivate on the un activated corephyee.

If you don't have a dove, re-activate colette and make one, and possibly use her to magians duel the performer dead.

UNactivated corephyee dance partners to base contact with first corephyee. Gains use soulstone and +2 willpower. Dances together. walks towards the main group of bad guys, attacking at the beginning if you are going to need the 4" push, otherwise saving the sword dance attack to be on an enemy. Since this is a replace, all effects on the models transfer.

Next steps are more situational in order

Cassandra dance partners to the enemy group. I would probably sword dance, nimble, getting an attack on a problem piece (possibly a stiched) and aimign to get the trigger to allow a cast. Hopefully get the cast If not using the melee version of her breath fire. (it might be best to give her the negative defense flips zero action rather than sword dance, opponent crew dependant).

Re-activate the duet. Either use the area spell to hurt as much as you can, or use the attacks from her walks to kill as much as you can.

Try and use the final move/push to get out of lint of sight of the stiched if you can.

Certainly risky, but there is a reasonable posibility of actualy killing Pandora as well as Collodi and all the crew.

[ravenborne]

A lot of us are so used to playing certain models and always activating certain abilities of theirs that we start to forget to actually announce it because "why wouldn't you always use that ability?"

So, long story short, we all need to be better about always declaring a Trigger when it's being used (even if it's cooked into the stat) and if we "always use an ability" it needs to be okay with your opponent up front. This will avoid completely unnecessary arguments and frustration, which is a better experience for both players and us tournament judges.

With newer players around here we pretty much let them take back anything or redo whatever. When we practice for tournaments or the more experienced player's play each other, we really try and follow a "no take backs and no announcing after the fact" policy. It helps tighten play and makes games go faster.

[LoboStele]

I'll be another one to chime in and say that I didn't help the Arcanist front very well over the weekend, LOL. I went a total of 1 win, 1 draw, and 3 losses, haha. I will say that at least 2 of those losses would have been wins if we'd been allowed to play out the round instead of having to stop right when time was called, and the 3rd loss, my first game in Sundays event, I might have been able to turn around into a win if we'd had enough time to play all 6 rounds. We only got through the first activation or two of Round 5, and that really hurt me.

I think that's one of the biggest lessons I learned though....Know the time-limits, and pick crews that can win fast. Unfortunately, aRamos is not such a crew. I had a blast though, and that's what really counts.

[ravenborne]

I strongly believe the tight time limits make it near impossible for certain masters to win. I have said since I started this game I wish rounds were 2 hours long.

[Wulfen]

I strongly believe the tight time limits make it near impossible for certain masters to win. I have said since I started this game I wish rounds were 2 hours long.

I agree here. If I want ridiculous time limits, I'll play WM Hardcore. And, for what it's worth, I don't think player skill should be represented by how fast they take actions.