The best Arcanist demo boxes?

[Beaker]

So I am in the process of finding out about the popularity of Malifaux in the nearby gamer crowd (I live in Delaware). Haven't had a chance to do much searching, but I am fairly certain that I might have to run a few demo days here and there, just to generate some interest.

As some of you may have read, I want to basically stick to Arcanists as my faction of choice. That in mind, I don't necessarily want to spend money on a starter set that I use exclusively for demos. I DO happen to own the Leveticus starter set, but I hear from all and sundry that his playstyle is so back-ackwards that it's not a good idea to use him for demos and such. It would be cool if I could simply use a couple of Arcanist starter sets to run demos with.

Again, as some of you may have read, I plan to get ahold of Kaeris to use as my first Arcanist Master. The question is, who to get next? My first impulse is Rasputina, just because according to my research, she is an easy and straitforward caster to learn. Plus the whole "fire vs ice" gimmick has some appeal in playing some Kaeris vs Rasputina matches. My concern is since both masters seem to be ranged oriented, the demos might turn into a gunline shooting match that isn't too much fun. Perhaps that is not correct though?

If I don't go with Rasputina though, I am not sure which other Arcanist to get ahold of for demos. It seems that the other masters either have complex play styles, or need more models than are available in the starter to really get going. Any ideas folks?

[Alex]

Ramos should be pretty good, especially if you magnetize your spiders and can spring for an Electrical Creation. Also, as they are all Arcanists, you can fairly easily swap models between crews to get the balance you are looking for.

[Bunny_Avenger]

I've had some trouble learning Colette, so she may be one to stay away from. Of course, this could just be a personal block.

[twenty4seven]

Rasputina is far and away the best demo master the Arcanists have. She's fairly straightforward and has some fun elements like overpower that new players can get very excited about. Kaeris is also good for demos and is probably the only henchman model I would recommend for a demo crew but it is preferable to stick to Book 1 masters. Ramos would be my 2nd choice if you wanted to stick to all Arcanists. Of course I would highly recommend at least 1 crew of another faction as that will be the very best way to showcase Malifaux if you're serious about growing a community.

[Iamwyrd]

I agree with 24/7. She has everything needed in her box for demoing, spells, shooting, and melee. She was my first crew and still my favorite. I too play leve who is in close runnings for my favorite as well, and it takes a few games to get ahold of his crazy playstyle. But then he is a blast.

[011121]

I guess I have a mental block but I find ramos way more understandable than rasputina. I've never gotten the hang of her ice mirror thing (so I extend my range by casting from another minion but that minion has to be pretty close to me so it really doesn't extend my range much at all and I take a bug hit to casting, what wha?) which seems to be pretty integral to her playstyle. Ramos on the other hand seems to be "I make robots to kill the enemy, or if they get too close I burn them with direct damage spells" That's pretty straight forward. I'm sure there's a lot more subtlety you can do with him, but that's enough to get started with...

[Cats Laughing]

I'm going to add my vote to Raspy as the best Arcanist Demo box. Though I will confirm your fears that this will lead to a shooty bias when you do Kaeris vs Raspy demos. One thing you can look to do to avoid the games from being entirely gunline boredom, is to ensure that the scenarios you present in the demos are not simply shared Slaughters.

Consider running Treasure Hunt to highlight the movement aspect of the game (and also to introduce the Raspy player to the fun of Ice Pillars and Freeze Over). You can also use Claim Jump to force the players to engage.

I think you could also get away with using Marcus's box in these demos as well. While his box is not the best, by any measure, it out manuevers both Raspy and Kaeris and therefore should have a decent chance a certain strategies. You might want to pick up an additional beast or two for Myranda's transform, but you could always wait for the box models to die first before pointing out to the newbies that she can transform. This is just an option, and I'm not arguing that it's the best choice.

I think Ramos can also work well, but he needs another model to even cast one of his spells. That's not a huge issue though and you're looking at demos, not "tourney winning lists" so some lack of ability is ok. I think the lack of any ranged, outside of Ramo's spell and blowing up spiders can make him suffer somewhat against Raspy or Kaeris, depending on terrain and strategy.

Colette properly needs Doves to be played well, but you could use her box in demos. I think without doves she might be underpowered and still hard to learn how to use (moreso because the doves aren't there?). So I would join with those suggesting against her.

The new crew coming out with book 4 looks to be self contained in the box (includes totem) so perhaps that is another option.

I guess I have a mental block but I find ramos way more understandable than rasputina. I've never gotten the hang of her ice mirror thing (so I extend my range by casting from another minion but that minion has to be pretty close to me so it really doesn't extend my range much at all and I take a bug hit to casting, what wha?) which seems to be pretty integral to her playstyle. Ramos on the other hand seems to be "I make robots to kill the enemy, or if they get too close I burn them with direct damage spells" That's pretty straight forward. I'm sure there's a lot more subtlety you can do with him, but that's enough to get started with...

Ice Mirrors is pretty easy for anyone coming over from Warmachine (except maybe Khador players who avoided the Old Witch), and adding 6" to a 10" spell is a 60% boost in range, or pretty substantial in this game. There's also the 'not needing LOS from Raspy' aspect that makes ice mirrors more than just a range boost. 6" is also 1/6th of the total board length/width. Imagine if Snipe added 8"s of range (the equivalent 1/6th of a 4'x4' table) in Warmachine...

The Ca penalty is a pain, but I find it's easy to work around, as long as I'm not directly targeting the opposing master.

I find that I actually haven't needed to use Ice Mirror as often as you might think. Turn 1-2, yeah, but by turn 3, in many cases, I'm blasting away directly as things get closer to Raspy.

Also, the whole splitting swarms and swarming spiders thing may be a bit complex for demos, whereas just shooting stuff is pretty simple to explain. I don't think Ramos is a bad choice, but the summoning and swarming/splitting thing is somewhat complex.

[Beaker]

Thanks all for the advice! Yes i had already scoped out that Rasputina was considered a great demo caster - that info is pretty easy to find. My main concern is with Kaeris. Purchasing her is "locked in", So to speak (for I want her for my own personal playing). So the big question is - would a Rasputina vs Kaeris demo be any fun? The scenario suggestions from above seem good.

My financial situation is such that i dont want to get any other non-Arcanist models, but in the interest of generating players, I might (repeat MIGHT) consider grabbing a starter from another faction. In light of this, which box would be a good match against either Rasputina or Kaeris?

[Adran]

I would think the Kaeris box should be fine for demo purposes.

From memory its under 25 stones, but should be ok for demoing.

It has only 3 types of figure, which helps, and can do a range of melee, combat and magic.

My personal favorite demo box is the Justice box. This would do well against both 'Tina and Kaeris.

[Beaker]

Sorry but i have to veto the Justice box. I absolutely loath the lady justice model. I mean its well sculpted and all, but it sort of represents everything I hate about female miniatures (ie - she looks way too much like a really archetypical porn star). I get that a little bit of "fan service" is natural (like in the kaeris model, for example), but LJ just looks completely absurd.

But anyhow, mini-rant off (sorry lol) - are there any other possibilities?

[TimH]

Rezzers are generally avoided for intro games (they are a bit complicated and need extra models). The book 2 masters are all a little on the complex side compared to book 1 so I'd avoid them as well. I'd say go with either the Viktorias or Perdita. Both boxes are fun for new players on account of all the models being unique characters, Viks have some complexity from their dual master role but are otherwise a straightforward close combat battlegroup, Perdita is a nice simple but strong set. The reason for avoiding Sonia is that she is such a counter to Rasputinas play style in a beginner game, Pandora adds all the complexity of morale duels, Zoraida has all sorts of strange stuff going on and Lilith would require a few extra models.

[Cats Laughing]

Rezzers are generally avoided for intro games (they are a bit complicated and need extra models).

For Nicodem, Mcmourning and Kirai, I would agree, but Seamus is a great demo crew that works straight out of the box, plays very differently from both Raspy and Kaeris and can highlight other aspects of the game. There is also a very nice background story in book 1 (iirc, maybe a wyrd chronicle?) that shows a battle between Raspy and Seamus that actually mirrored my own first game of Malifaux quite well.

As for other crews I would suggest for demos:

Lady J (yeah, I know she's not an option in this case, but I thought I should list her in case other prospective demoers decide to read this thread).

Sonnia would normally also be good, but she does counter Raspy quite strongly so I wouldn't suggest her in this case.

Ophelia and Perdita are both options, though Ophelia does need a blister of Slop Haulers or Young'uns or Bayou Gremlins to get to 25 stones.

[Backno]

So what crew would you guys pick to play AGAINST a Ramos crew for a demo game? I am looking at trying to become a henchmen so trying to figure out a good crew for it. Atm I have Lady J and Perdita.

[011121]

Ice Mirrors is pretty easy for anyone coming over from Warmachine (except maybe Khador players who avoided the Old Witch), and adding 6" to a 10" spell is a 60% boost in range, or pretty substantial in this game. There's also the 'not needing LOS from Raspy' aspect that makes ice mirrors more than just a range boost. 6" is also 1/6th of the total board length/width. Imagine if Snipe added 8"s of range (the equivalent 1/6th of a 4'x4' table) in Warmachine...

I never played Warmachine, so maybe that's part of it, I just look at the ability and think "when am I ever going to be within 16" but not within 10" and also not in line of sight but have a model with ice mirror who is in line of sight of me and my enemy and is also within 6" of me?" Frankly just thinking about trying to set it up in order to use it gives me a migraine.

The casting penalty then just feels like insult on top of injury (namely my throbbing headache).

Sadly, when I heard that ability was an important one for rasputina I knew I wasn't going to play her much. She feels like work to play.

[supercalisto]

I started with Colette and shes pretty hard to learn. Having doves and investing in coryphées makes it a lot easier

[HaggisMcMutton]

I personally really like using Rasputina for demo games. If I am teaching a new player, I will give them something like Perdita or viks or something similar that is more straight forward. Then I sometimes run Rasputina cause I like how my crew's paint job came out and I get to show off my custom made Ice Pillars. People seem to like the idea of the Ice Pillars. I also own Kaeris and Collette. I wouldn't mind using Kaeris's box set for demos if I feel that the new player can comprehend both the normal hiring rules and the henchman as master hiring rules.

[Grifonetto]

I never played Warmachine, so maybe that's part of it, I just look at the ability and think "when am I ever going to be within 16" but not within 10" and also not in line of sight but have a model with ice mirror who is in line of sight of me and my enemy and is also within 6" of me?"

You might be surprised. On an indoor board with corridors -- or alternately, Ice Pillars in front of Rasputina to block enemy LoS and then use a flanking model to bounce spells off of. Basically, anytime Rasputina wants to hide from dudes and still shoot them. I would suggest giving her a try without worrying about how you're going to "set up" Ice Mirror and just take things as they come, it might be easier than you think.

---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------

Then I sometimes run Rasputina cause I like how my crew's paint job came out and I get to show off my custom made Ice Pillars. People seem to like the idea of the Ice Pillars.

Rasputina was my first demo game and the Ice Pillars were actually a big sell for me. My Warmachine/Hordes army has a character who is supposed to magically sculpt stone to her will, and the rock wall she makes is about tall enough for Charlie Brown and Linus to rest their elbows on -- but not for too long, because it goes away after a round. Getting to make ice columns that were 20 feet tall (in scale), and weren't going anywhere unless you dealt with them, felt like a real magic spell by comparison.

[El Indio]

I agree on Rasputina. The other choices all have their problems:

Using Colette for demo games is a sure-fire way to make sure you never get any new players. You might as well just throw rules manuals at them until they go unconscious. She's waaaay too complicated to use as a basis for teaching people the rules.

With Ramos, you not only have to instruct new players in summoning (unlike Seamus, who might go through a whole game without summoning anything, Ramos pumps out robots and bombs like a munitions factory with a PhD), but the headache that is swarming/un-swarming spiders.

Marcus's box set is, let's face it, pretty sub-par, and Myranda is either no choices at all (box only) or too many options ("Here, look at every beast card in the game before we start playing.")

Kaeris is actually a really nice box, and she has a lot of potential in demo games, but I am leery of needing to instruct newbies in the subtle differences between Masters and Henchmen. Granted, one of my demo crews is a Henchman (Ophelia), but that's because nearly every Outcast Master is too fiddly and complicated for demo play, IMHO, and I wanted a shooty crew for people who like guns.

Rasputina has a fairly durable crew to offset her weak personal defense and a unique spell-slinging playstyle that sets her apart from the other "easy" starter boxes. In any given playgroup, you'll have the one guy who loves magic-users, and she's one of the best offensive magicians in the game. Pretty straightforward, too, once you get through her spell list.

[Cats Laughing]

concise, i like that

[decker_cky]

Marcus's box set is, let's face it, pretty sub-par, and Myranda is either no choices at all (box only) or too many options ("Here, look at every beast card in the game before we start playing.")

Probably works best with something like a Slate Ridge Mauler, and no other options. Something interesting, useful and easy to get into.

[Grifonetto]

Kaeris is actually a really nice box, and she has a lot of potential in demo games, but I am leery of needing to instruct newbies in the subtle differences between Masters and Henchmen.

How about: "This is a Henchman, she has some unique hiring rules I can explain later if you're interested. Okay, now here's how you play."

[011121]

Probably works best with something like a Slate Ridge Mauler, and no other options. Something interesting, useful and easy to get into.

I'd go with the razorspine rattler myself. It's fun, nasty, has some tricks to get into once you get a little more comfortable with the game. That said I wouldn't recommend Marcus in general.

[Sniddy]

I'd go with the razorspine rattler myself. It's fun, nasty, has some tricks to get into once you get a little more comfortable with the game. That said I wouldn't recommend Marcus in general.

Problem is rattlers in box

Swapping Myranda for a Mauler seems a good idea - i mean it's a frickin bear with 4 arms that eats your face....nice lure for demos

[veil]

I'm pretty new to being a henchman, but I've been running Rasputina v Seamus games, so I've got a little experience with the two. A bit of background first: the shop I'm demoing at is expanding from Warmachine to Malifaux, so I chose Rasputina for her general similarity to many WM "Spellslingers". I chose Seamus because he showcases the summon mechanics as well as just being a fun Master to play (who doesn't like undead hookers!?). In addition, both of these Masters have a pretty serious ranged weapon/spell (December's Curse and the .50 Flint) and a model that can go in and wreck in melee (Sybelle and the Ice Golem). Another interesting thing in this match-up is the Ice Gaiman/Golem's statue, which makes them immune to lure as well as giving them a solid damage-defense. Overall, I've found that the biggest problem is opponents who are too shy with moving Rasputina and her crew up into a good December's curse position. They have too much experience with WM spellslingers getting immediately killed and don't quite understand that with armor, Rasputina can take a few hits before she's just dead. They do better with Seamus, who they blithely throw into the thick of things, .50 Flint'ing and raising belles to replace the ones that they've lost.