Can some one explain hard to kill ?

[greg1394]

Hi been having a bit of trouble with hard to kill..

The question is what is considered a "single damage source" ?

Say I am in combat with a model and i do enough damage to reduce it to 2 wounds...can I no longer damage that model on this activation because my model is the " damage source"?

Is A weapon considered a " damage source " ? could I switch to bash and still do damage ?

What about hitting a model with the same spell multiple times ? is the spell considered the "damage source" ?

HELP!!!!

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Charles Nadon said:

In case if an execute trigger( discard a card or soulstone or model is killed)

Does the trigger"execute" bypass hard to kill if player can't prevent it?

firstly this thread is nearly10 years old, and referring to first edition hard to kill. So be wary about earlier answers  in the thread because things changed edition to edition. 

Yes. Hard to kill prevents you from lowering the wounds, and execute doesn't lower wounds, it just kills you. 

[96p]

If The Model has more than 1 wd left and gets enough wd to reach zero in one strike/spell/attack it survives with 1 wd left.

Example:

Perdita hits a model with Htk and flips the red joker, her dmg would be 5+3(from an extra weak)+1(critical strike)= 9 dg. Normaly the model would die but due to Htk it survives with 1wd left.

Pandora hits a model with 2wd left with self loathing, the model gets 1wd from "Emotional Trauma" and x from self loathing. The model dies because the dmg of emotional trauma reduced it to 1 wd before the actual dmg from self loathing hits the model.

Edited June 18, 2012 by 96p

[Hjelmen]

Basically, it just means that as long as the model has more than one wound remaing, it cannot be killed outright by a single attack that deals damage.

Say that Model A, that has Hard to Kill, has 3 wd remaining. It is hit by an attack, and the damage flip results in 5 damage. That would usually mean that A would be killed, but because of Hard to Kill, A is reduced to 1 wd. Another attack can then kill it.

[DeusInnomen]

What about hitting a model with the same spell multiple times ? is the spell considered the "damage source" ?

I think the others covered your other questions pretty well, but to address this one directly, each individual casting of the spell is a separate damage source.

Basically, each time you either do a damage flip or a spell/effect says to inflict a specific amount of damage or wounds, each of those is an individual damage source.

[greg1394]

each time you either do a damage flip or a spell/effect says to inflict a specific amount of damage or wounds, each of those is an individual damage source.

So you could go in to combat with a model with 5 wounds do 5DG to it, which would reduce it to one wound then kill it with a 2nd attack from the same model , regardless of whether it was Via spell or combat ?

[dunce002917]

Thanks guys! Now I got Hard To Kill clarified... and not just think of an old Steven Segal movie.. LOL

[DeusInnomen]

So you could go in to combat with a model with 5 wounds do 5DG to it, which would reduce it to one wound then kill it with a 2nd attack from the same model , regardless of whether it was Via spell or combat ?

You got it! Also, if you hit a model for 5 Dg and it drops to 1 Wd left... and before you can hit it again it heals above 1 Wd, then you'd have to go through the whole song'n'dance again, dropping it to 1 Wd again and then hoping somebody shoots the jerk before they get healed again.

[Lungboy]

What if an attack has a trigger that causes extra damage? Would it be considered part of the original source of damage and therefore not bypass HtK? Does it vary depending on the trigger's wording?

[Marcalla]

It varies with the trigger. For example Ryle's "fully automatic" is considered a separate damage source so models get to use armour vs each extra flip he makes. But on the flip side its good at taking down hard to wound models.

[Dustcrusher]

Basically, it just means that as long as the model has more than one wound remaing, it cannot be killed outright by a single attack that deals damage.

Say that Model A, that has Hard to Kill, has 3 wd remaining. It is hit by an attack, and the damage flip results in 5 damage. That would usually mean that A would be killed, but because of Hard to Kill, A is reduced to 1 wd. Another attack can then kill it.

So in other words, it has to be two attacks in a single turn? If so, I've been playing this wrong for a long time.

In other words, Seamus suffers 5 wounds on Turn 1. He suffers 7 on Turn 2 but Hard to Kill brings him back to 1 Wd remaining?

[notmikehill]

Yes it has to be two attacks that kill the model.

example:

Seamus is hit by Dustcrusher for 9 damage, normally this would box him and he'd be deader then Squidpidge on a Sunday. However, Hard to Kill then activates and prevents him dying, he is left with 1 wound remaining.

If notmikehill were to attack Seamus at any time he would have 1 wound left, Seamus' Hard to Kill ability will not activate, thus killing the Mad Hatter once and for all.

[Keltheos]

What notmikehill said, but without 'boxing' we're not UPS.

[tattyted]

So in other words, it has to be two attacks in a single turn? If so, I've been playing this wrong for a long time.

In other words, Seamus suffers 5 wounds on Turn 1. He suffers 7 on Turn 2 but Hard to Kill brings him back to 1 Wd remaining?

Seamus suffers 5 wounds so goes down to 7 remaining. If he was then hit by a strike that did 7 points of damage he would go down to 1 wound (the 7th is ignored) BUT if the 7 wounds was delivered as 6 wounds from 1 strike (also taking him down to 1 wound and then the 7th wound came from a seperate strike then he would die.

So yes if he had 2 or more wounds remaining at the start of any turn then he would need to be hit by 2 attacks (or rather receive wounds from 2 seperate sources)to be sure of killing him that turn.

[Keltheos]

Turn 1

Kel has Hard to Kill (H2K) and 7 Wd remaining.

Kel suffers 8 wounds in one attack.

Kel would normally be dead, but H2W prevents Kel from going below 1 Wd.

Kel is now at 1 Wd.

Later (whether it’s during Turn 1 or Turn 2 or whenever)

Kel is attacked again, for 5 wounds.

Kel has 1 Wd remaining, so H2K doesn’t take effect.

Kel dies…poor Kel.

IF at some point before Kel was attacked again he healed at least 1 Wd (and was at 2 or more Wd) H2K would help him.

[Dustcrusher]

Thank you all for the clarification

I just found this thread, of course just after all the trouble y'all took. Here's the link for anyone lurking that's reading this thread: http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?28038-Sue-s-hurting-himself-but-he-s-hard-to-kill!

I have been playing it half right the whole time. Hard to Kill is anti-one-shot protection. However, I did not know that healing back up to more than one Wd left would "recharge" H2K. I am not sure how I missed that- I'd like to think it was an old explanation by a non-Marshal, but it was probably me not reading the rule carefully enough :facepalm:

I need to make sure my group knows about this, mainly because I've been telling them wrong the whole time. Seamus using Soulstones for healing flips seems a lot more useful now.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Dustcrusher

[Charles Nadon]

In case if an execute trigger( discard a card or soulstone or model is killed)

Does the trigger"execute" bypass hard to kill if player can't prevent it?

[im_open_to_suggestions]

31 minutes ago, Charles Nadon said:

In case if an execute trigger( discard a card or soulstone or model is killed)

Does the trigger"execute" bypass hard to kill if player can't prevent it?

Yes.  Hard to kill prevents damage lowering them to below one wound.  Execute just kills them regardless of remaining wounds