Finally read the Errata/clarification page

[TheNance]

I think the original poster has confused his Resurrectionists with Arcanists. Just sayin... if any faction is a little soft, its not Resurrectionists.

All that in mind... Every Master is playable and capable. If you think its a little underpowered... consider it a challenge and delight in stomping those you consider OP.

Also keep in mind that maybe while the theme of a faction really appeals to you, maybe the playstyle just isn't a good fit (In short, maybe you just suck at Rezzers).

My 2 cents =)

[Sandwich]

I like gremlins better.

Mostly because they are better.

Basically, my design philosophy is that Malifaux is filled with powerful models so that it is more satisfying when my mosquitoes fart on them.

I love you.

I think the original poster has confused his Resurrectionists with Arcanists. Just sayin... if any faction is a little soft, its not Resurrectionists.

All that in mind... Every Master is playable and capable. If you think its a little underpowered... consider it a challenge and delight in stomping those you consider OP.

Also keep in mind that maybe while the theme of a faction really appeals to you, maybe the playstyle just isn't a good fit (In short, maybe you just suck at Rezzers).

My 2 cents =)

I assure you my playstyle is very fitting for my faction of choice.

I don't think you know who I am so I'm going to just let the "You suck at zombies" thing pass.

While you're correct in that the Arcanists need love too, they don't need it nearly as much as the Ressers.

Colette is one of the most fun masters in the gameEDIT: Colette is THE most fun master in the game, Raspybby<3333 is one of the most powerful casters, Marcus is top tier in versatility and Ramos has a pretty sweet hat.

I mean avatar.

Ramos has a really sweet avatar. *

Also, I can do pretty great with my faction.

That doesn't mean that everyone can.

And it leads to a very empty gaming community here.

Because its hard to rip people away from other miniature games when there's glaring balance issues.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Sandwich

[Justin]

I love you.

Hold me.

Hold me until the sun sets across the mountain tops into eternity.

[F3ARMonger]

Did it just get really Wyrd in here to anyone else? Anyone?

[Joel]

What's the problem with the crooligan? I love the concept and fluff, the models are great and I've played against resser players who have been able to use them to great effect to grab objectives and complete schemes.

Just asking.

I am a neverborn player about to start a seamus crew...and I don't see it as dropping my power level, just playing in a different way.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I hear the theme music to Brokeback Mountain playing in the background as Justin climbs a mountain in the fading sunlight, surrounded by the droning of Cicadas, towards the warm, amber drenched lights of Wyrd's offices, where a tall rugged silhouette waits just outside the doors, and the image fades to black.

[omnivision6]

Two quick things.

1. Humility. Look it up.

2. If you need help building a community, ask. SoCal Malifaux built a community that had 5 member to almost 150 and growing. That has been through hard work, love for the game, persistence, networking, and generally being good people to want to be around.

BTW, my "main" master right now is Leveticus. I love his fluff and different play style. My main rezzer master is McM. Thats because he was my first box. I have all masters for every faction except Arcanists. And yea, I know how to play well. But I don't post online about "who I am."

[Justin]

So, you guys may have noticed that my posts in this thread have not been entirely serious up until now. That's largely because...we're talking about a game. Playing games should be fun. Talking about them should be fun, too. And I'm going to have my fun damnit!

I really liked the following post:

I'm relatively new to the game and while I take your point, I think the nature of the game is such that almost certainly balance between factions (never mind masters . . . ) is going to be impossible to achieve. Malifaux, although requiring fewer models, has probably more options available to the player than 40K does and though perhaps the units do not have more special rules, there are more unique special rules. My own feeling is that it's just impossible to balance such systems to every players' satisfaction, or even to provide broad balance between factions.

What Malifaux does do is allow you to play to your strengths by tailoring your crew to the mission and selecting appropriate schemes, which mitigates imbalance to a degree that other games don't tend to allow (certainly 40K does not). But it's an imperfect 'solution', I agree.

I do think though, and I have a fairly long and broad experience of wargaming, that if you want a game where there is as much variation between units as Mailfaux offers, you have to accept that more imbalance than is usual goes hand in hand with that.

I think what UberGruber (awesome name) says is absolutely true. Additionally, miniature games are about more than the game. They're about the models, the fluff, the story, the painting. I mean, if you were all just interested in playing a balanced strategy game you'd be playing chess, or go, or shogi. But the ability to tell a story with your models is a key element to what makes Malifaux beautiful. As such, the rules need to reflect the story. Does this mean ressers will be on average slower and tougher? Yup. Does this mean Neverborn are going to be fast and sneaky and hit hard? Yup to that as well. The factions could easily be balanced by making them all the same, but that kills the story, that kills the variety, that kills the fun.

Now, given that the different factions inherently have different strengths (and those strengths may not all be equal) will we balance the game as best we can? Of course! Did Ressers get an awesome master in book 2 (their most recent master) sure did. But, even given those things, will this game be perfectly balanced? No. But that doesn't mean that the dev team isn't working as hard as they can to create a balanced play experience, or that the factions are really very far from each other in power, if at all.

And, for the record, the need to tell a good story something all miniature games have in common. And if a miniature game were to forget that it would become a bland, hyper-competitive complain fest. Sure, players may get discouraged with Malifaux's balance and go to 40k or Warmachine, but that's a bit like saying, "This lake is too wet, I'm going to go jump in the ocean." You're swimming either way.

[Sandwich]

I hear the theme music to Brokeback Mountain playing in the background as Justin climbs a mountain in the fading sunlight, surrounded by the droning of Cicadas, towards the warm, amber drenched lights of Wyrd's offices, where a tall rugged silhouette waits just outside the doors, and the image fades to black.

I just really wish I could play the harp right now.

Two quick things.

1. Humility. Look it up.

2. If you need help building a community, ask. SoCal Malifaux built a community that had 5 member to almost 150 and growing. That has been through hard work, love for the game, persistence, networking, and generally being good people to want to be around.

BTW, my "main" master right now is Leveticus. I love his fluff and different play style. My main rezzer master is McM. Thats because he was my first box. I have all masters for every faction except Arcanists. And yea, I know how to play well. But I don't post online about "who I am."

Humility?

You think I'm attacking you or Malifaux or something.

I'm seriously not trying to be mean to anyone.

But I know for a fact that the Resurrectionist faction is underpowered.

I knew when I posted this thread (See my very first explanation thread) that people who do not play a ton (Read: A TON) of Resurrectionist games (As and against) would come in, get super $$$$$$$$ed at me for saying there's a very large difference in power between two factions (Kirai not included) and then tell me that I'm all kinds of wrong and evil.

But I chose to post anyway, partially because I was hoping something would come to light that would help, and also because I was hoping someone might give me some lifechanging secret to the models I've been playing for years.

I've tried time and time again to really get people into Malifaux.

And each time I lose someone, its for the same exact thing.

Well, once it was a guy moving to Oregon with his wife.

But for dramatic prose, I'm saying every time it's the same thing.

And its not just people who've never played a tabletop game, it's people who've been playing for decades that tell me the game is bad with balance.

Who I am, by the by, is a guy called Sandwich.

And I have pretty girly eyes.

So I'm not really sure what's gotten you so mad.

[Chucklemonkey]

I assure you my playstyle is very fitting for my faction of choice.

I don't think you know who I am so I'm going to just let the "You suck at zombies" thing pass.

I think the issue is with this statement.

[Sandwich]

So, you guys may have noticed that my posts in this thread have not been entirely serious up until now. That's largely because...we're talking about a game. Playing games should be fun. Talking about them should be fun, too. And I'm going to have my fun damnit!

I really liked the following post:

I think what UberGruber (awesome name) says is absolutely true. Additionally, miniature games are about more than the game. They're about the models, the fluff, the story, the painting. I mean, if you were all just interested in playing a balanced strategy game you'd be playing chess, or go, or shogi. But the ability to tell a story with your models is a key element to what makes Malifaux beautiful. As such, the rules need to reflect the story. Does this mean ressers will be on average slower and tougher? Yup. Does this mean Neverborn are going to be fast and sneaky and hit hard? Yup to that as well. The factions could easily be balanced by making them all the same, but that kills the story, that kills the variety, that kills the fun.

Now, given that the different factions inherently have different strengths (and those strengths may not all be equal) will we balance the game as best we can? Of course! Did Ressers get an awesome master in book 2 (their most recent master) sure did. But, even given those things, will this game be perfectly balanced? No. But that doesn't mean that the dev team isn't working as hard as they can to create a balanced play experience, or that the factions are really very far from each other in power, if at all.

And, for the record, the need to tell a good story something all miniature games have in common. And if a miniature game were to forget that it would become a bland, hyper-competitive complain fest. Sure, players may get discouraged with Malifaux's balance and go to 40k or Warmachine, but that's a bit like saying, "This lake is too wet, I'm going to go jump in the ocean." You're swimming either way.

Now I can't be funny.

But as per your whole, fluffy story + game mechanics = goodness, I hate that the excuse for very apparent flaws in the system is literally "Well, we can't all be perfect."

I'm strongly interested in the Resurrectionist faction, I love it.

But what's the point of playing a crew that cannot succeed versus someone of equal skill but with a different crew?

I'm sorry that's just shallow.

When Blizzard, owners of WoW found that one class was drastically more powerful than another, they didn't say "Well, the Dev team is trying hard, but we can't be better."

They cuddled and buffed and worked their *sses off to get that perfect sense of harmony.

Did they mess up sometimes? Sure did.

Did they fix their mistakes? Yes.

The argument I'll receive for that is, and I will quote

"There's 9 classes in WoW, there's 100 models in Malifaux."

No.

There's 9 classes with 100 abilities that matter deeply.

That's a million times more things to work on and test and balance, and they've done a spectacular job thus far.

A decent amount of balance (Read: Perfect 1:1 balance is impossible) is easily achievable.

I'm going to stop posting right here, right now, because I've said my peace, in its entirety, and I don't want an argument.

I am not a veteran player of miniature games, but I've followed Malifaux extensively for three years(?).

In that time I've written two very useful Tacticas that have both been universally received.

I've pointed out flaws, errors, and problems I've perceived and have fairly ruthlessly defended my position until I was either proven wrong or right.

I've defended this Faction as an equal power for as long as I could ignore their fatal flaws.

I do not want to seem like a problematic person, though I may for my beliefs.

And I do not want to make any enemies, and I respect everyone in this thread.

(Especially Lalo.)

But as my final statement

I believe that the Resurrectionist faction needs a significant amount of buffs to both Masters (Except Kirai) and Minions (Except most spirits.)

Thank you everyone for your time and hopefully consideration.

Good day.

[nix]

How can you have such a soft group in Tacoma Washington, but there seems to be such a strong group 2 hours up the road in Bellingham?

[Justin]

I suppose that's where we simply disagree. I don't think the difference is drastic, and may on occasion swing in favor of the perceived "weaker" faction. Things change greatly depending on terrain, strategy, etc.

But I suppose we will agree to disagree.

Good day to you, kind sir.

[TheNance]

Blizzard's constant Cuddling and buffing and Cuddling again was terrible. And honestly.. how could you play a game that uses stat cards if you're constantly tweaking things each time someone thinks their favoritest master isn't as strong as that guy.

Master to Master... impossible to balance.

Faction to Faction... Wyrd's done a pretty nice job.

[Joel]

So are you saying thar ressers, as a faction, do not have the tools do complete schemes and strategies against the other factions?

I'm no expert, but that's rubbish isn't it?

I look through the books and I see a faction with plenty of strength and depth...odd.

[TheNance]

I'd like to propose Wryd add to every Master too weak to compete, the following ability...

LAWL (all): Laugh at your opponent. Gain one soulstone.

[JMGraham]

How can you have such a soft group in Tacoma Washington, but there seems to be such a strong group 2 hours up the road in Bellingham?

No comparison, really. We Bellinghamsters live in a town referred to as "The City of Subdued Excitement", that frequently makes the "best places to live" lists. We've got a special combination of natural beauty, outdoor activities, beer, and a vibrant gaming community.

Sandwich lives in a town known regionally for the "Tacoma Aroma", and frequently gets ranked as a stressful place to live. http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/01/10/life.stress.reut/ It's bound to affect one's morale!

Move to Bellingham, Sandwich! Up here we don't care about balance and Ressers do great!

[msgfree]

But I know for a fact that the Resurrectionist faction is underpowered.

I knew when I posted this thread (See my very first explanation thread) that people who do not play a ton (Read: A TON) of Resurrectionist games (As and against) would come in, get super $$$$$$$$ed at me for saying there's a very large difference in power between two factions (Kirai not included) and then tell me that I'm all kinds of wrong and evil.

I would like to know how you know that Rezzers are underpowered as a fact.

None of this anecdotal evidence (i.e. "Everyone always loses with Rezzers....except me, cause I'm super smart."), I want hard data.

Additionally, you cannot state that they are a underpowered faction (except for Kirai).

Kirai is a Rezzer master. Any discussion regarding the strengths and weakness of the faction must include her. You cannot exempt her from the discussion just to strengthen your own argument.

Finally, you complained that Wyrd has not responded to the perceived weakness of the faction. I would argue that they have responded with Kirai. Why do you continue to discount her presence in the faction?

[Dumb Luck]

I like gremlins better.

Mostly because they are better.

Basically, my design philosophy is that Malifaux is filled with powerful models so that it is more satisfying when my mosquitoes fart on them.

Seconded. Also, consider the quote stolen for new sig.

Dreamer, Somer and Seamus most popular boxes? Ya sure? Most people here tend to drift towards Showgirls or Guild. Hmm. Funny.

And Colette being THE most fun. But ... but ... I wuv Somer more. Am I not allowed to have the bestest fun with Somer?

Edited June 8, 2012 by Dumb Luck

[omnivision6]

Seconded. Also, consider the quote stolen for new sig.

Dreamer, Somer and Seamus most popular boxes? Ya sure? Most people here tend to drift towards Showgirls or Guild. Hmm. Funny.

And Colette being THE most fun. But ... but ... I wuv Somer more. Am I not allowed to have the bestest fun with Somer?

Most in our area lean toward some type of guild. Its funny how new players (once again, locally) think Lady J and Perdita are OP until they get more understanding of the game.

[Joel]

Viks seem most popular here.

[Hateful Darkblack]

I believe that the Resurrectionist faction needs a significant amount of buffs to both Masters (Except Kirai) and Minions (Except most spirits.)

Based on the recent podcast with the EricJ interview, I believe that Wyrd's pretty aware of this. Eric mentioned that they'd specifically be rolling out expanded content for Molly. I'm excited to see what's coming.

[Cats Laughing]

You're absolutely right I sometimes jump the gun, and when I'm proven wrong, I'll gladly admit I'm wholly wrong and stop my argument.

I'd think that'd be respectable.

I think it is respectable to gladly admit when wrong and that was my point.

I'm also hoping that you are wrong in this case, but honestly I don't have enough experience in this game to say either way. I do know that I pretty much always have fun when playing Malifaux, win or lose, and that's something I can't say for very many other games.

I do also somewhat agree with you on your apparent desire to have more Master to Master balance and less reliance on Faction to Faction balance. I think that due to the wide variety of Masters and related themed minion choices (such as going Seamus + Belles or Rasputina and December Cult models) somewhat entices players to play to those themes, which may not be optimal choices for all match-ups, strategies and schemes.

For instance the December's Cult and Rasputina are pretty slow (generally) and can have a hard time with speed schemes/strategies. But if I break theme and throw in a Coryphee or Duet my crew can then deal with speed schemes/strategeis much better. On the otherhand, i think there is a tendancy in players to look at subfactions and not want to break themes. Especially with new players. I see that all the time on the Warmachine/Hordes, where new players want to start off with a specific caster and his/her theme list (which may not be the most effective, game or cost, way to get into WarmaHordes).

Because of this desire to stay "in theme" certain Masters may seem weak or underpowered, especially in comparison to Masters that have very strong "theme" lists. This can certainly seem unfair or unbalanced. Supposedly the Faction vs Faction balance is supposed to counter this and bring balance to the game. Unfortunately this doesn't help new players who only like parts of a faction or worse just a single master and his/her themed crew. For this reason, I'd like to see greater Master vs Master balance. However, I realize that can be difficult and might even break Faction vs Faction balance if done poorly.

Anyway, I'm going to stick with the Malifaux is fun to play and I hope it stays that way.

[Dustcrusher]

I am a terrible player. I lose more often than I win.

I've played many more games with Nicodem and Seamus than my other masters, yet I have won more with the others (well, not the Viks yet- I've had one real game with them so far).

With my other masters, I have fun. I still lose a lot, but I learn from my mistakes, and most of the time the game is either close or I made (and learned from) a glaring error.

With the Ressers, I try different approaches only to see them fail. Yes, I gave up summoning ages ago- Omni was one of several that suggested that to me in the past, actually. I did a little better after that. People fear Paralysis now. Still, unless my opponent makes a huge mistake or doesn't know what he/she's doing, I lose with Nico and Seamus. It always feels like my opponent simply has better stuff, and I have to take solace in being able to put up any fight at all. It isn't fun anymore- it's just draining.

Sorry my take is only supported by flimsy anecdotal evidence. I don't have the time to play hundreds of games on my own so you have some hard numbers (I have yet to see a game outside of Blood Bowl do this, and that still blows my mind to this day).

So maybe it's just Sandwich and I. I don't know anymore. I don't play my Ressers except that I break Seamus out to use in demos against Lady J. I haven't touched Nico in months. Probably should sell them to someone who's good at the counter-intuitive thing Cats Laughing touched on since I started typing this.

I haven't applied to be a Henchman yet despite being my city's biggest Malifaux supporter. After reading this thread, I'm having second thoughts.

[Gruesome]

Such a volatile thread...

IMO, there is some truth to the idea that the rezzers are behind in a competitive sense.

But to me, it has more to do with the victory conditions as they stand within the game than inherent weaknesses in the faction as a whole.

To put it another way, I believe that if as much thought was given to the current list of Strategies and Schemes available as seem to be given to character designs and abilities/balance, that things could come much more into alignment.

I look at some of the rezzer specific schemes and compare to the arcanists... The names escape me, but there is a pretty big difference when you get a special scheme that lets your very fast crew interact in each corner to get you two VP as compared to having to leave your best resources (Corpse counters) lying all over the ground...

I think about all the interact strats where other factions can be accross the board and having gotten a VP before I have even sometimes activated??

Since the current set of strats and schemes put such a premium on speed, then of course one of, if not THE slowest faction will be at a disadvantage. (Nicodem walk-3, lol)

Oh, and Nico SS cache 3 and Seamus 2??? lol...

I really believe that if strats and schemes get fleshed out more, then rezzers have the potential to go from what I also believe is the weakest status to perhaps one of the strongest because of their great ability to tailor a crew to so many sorts of scenarios.

But our ability to tailor currently is limited because speed is the primary thing that is needed, so what we "tailor" always seems to be the same. (ie. Add Von Schill and Night Terrors... Done)

At least, thats my opinion...

---------- Post added at 05:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 PM ----------

Finally, you complained that Wyrd has not responded to the perceived weakness of the faction. I would argue that they have responded with Kirai. Why do you continue to discount her presence in the faction?

Only part of your post that I wanted to comment on as I said my peace above...

As someone that has been a rezzer for 18 months, I played my first two Kirai games last week and have to say that it did not feel like playing a rezzer. Yes, she is powerful and awesome and I enjoyed it. But at least the others feel the same.

To me, she is as much a rezzer as Ophelia is an outcast.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Gruesome