Todd Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 But then if you make it too far, you'll become a special man, and we'll be Spiku's band, but then they'll crush your sweet hands... Most useful post in this whole thread (it reminded me that I should be listening to some Bowie)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Well: there has to be a signifacnt difference because otherwise there wouldn't be need of tiers There are often 5-7 tiers for a games like League of Legends, in which there are only two flatly bad heroes. There are just enough measurable differences to divide the clearly strongest from those that aren't. This does not mean a tier 5 team will automatically lose at all. In Street Fighter's modern inceptions, you often get 5-6 tiers; and you'll still see low mid tier's take gold. Why would Malifaux be so different that it having multiple tiers means that only middle + are any good? Apart from Molly. Most useful post in this whole thread (it reminded me that I should be listening to some Bowie)! I was congratulated for not responding to that with a making love with his ego comment ;3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 There are often 5-7 tiers for a games like League of Legends, in which there are only two flatly bad heroes. There are just enough measurable differences to divide the clearly strongest from those that aren't. This does not mean a tier 5 team will automatically lose at all. Even then it's down to the player. Victor is considered to be bad. But Karn is rocking him hard, straight from picking him up. I think in LoL like Malifaux you will have selections that people mesh with easily, some only a few people mesh with, some which take you a while to get the hang of, some which have counters which are easy to spot, some which are very different to fight against. I ended up in a game yesterday with Vayne where I was coming against Garen and Nautilus, my range was not good enough that I could harass then without getting dragged into them and stun locked, now Vayne is considered good but bad matchups happen. It's very hard to give a choice a flat this is X good points with so many variables in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hence why I find it so surprising that people think that multiple tiers = total imbalance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 And, again, you have no idea the broken things which AREN'T there anymore. Nor how much time it took to test those things, and convince everyone they were broken and should be removed. Those were some of my favorite threads (and also some of the most disheartening). Don't forget there's a difference between not being a play-tester and not seeing the play-testing rules - I've got a *cough* idea of how the rules shaped up. And anyway, saying "we did 80% of the job" isn't justification for not doing the remaining 20% properly (that's not aimed at you personally, more about the general state of the rules etc) Delivering a 100% (hell even a 90%) solution would have been very nice but not very realistic, it would have resulted in a very long lull between books (and still wouldn't have found everything). In this highly competitive and relatively small market, game systems that have long delays between releases tend to go the way of the dodo (more so than games that release often with lots of "bugs" look at GW) However what you mention above is why a lot of us have continued to contribute material and recommend fixes long after the playtests (and I appreciate several of you that have added to the effort). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I had to wait 9 years for an update for Witch Hunters, and it deleted 1/3rd of my army, and made another 1/3rd illegal =D Book 3 made me purchase 2 models more than book 1 & 2 would have, and I would have much rather spent that money on buying v2 rules =3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 And you know I searched to try and find if it had been discussed before But like you say, my point wasn't how super awesome I was to be the first, just that it wasn't hard to "break" and now people are crying cuddle on her. Maybe I've missed it, but could you show a few of these many, many cuddle cries for Bete that aren't a general "cuddle Bury" cries that we've been having ever since Dreamer first appeared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Did magicpockets say "many, many cuddle cries"? I missed that. I thought he said people were crying cuddle on her; and even in the time I've been here I've seen posts about how her access to isolated bury coupled with defensive stance + her stances + things like nurses or Levi's crow bonus or Nico bonus provided her buffs that seemed unreasonable. That's not to say it isn't all attached to bury, but people have cited Bete. I am surprised to see it in dispute, why don't you go searching on the topic, given the search function is a bit too broad (every reference of every term =X ) to be of any decent use for things with open terms, or which come up a lot in builds or casually referenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Maybe I've missed it, but could you show a few of these many, many cuddle cries for Bete that aren't a general "cuddle Bury" cries that we've been having ever since Dreamer first appeared? Jeez, you're like my own personal pet goblin that follows me around and trolls my posts. I think Spiku has answered the question for me, but just to add there is more to Malifaux that the forum and I've constantly heard (usually from opponents who experienced it) that Bette's current situation needs looking at. And I don't think it matters whether it's Bette/Bury that's the issue - what matters is you've got a rule set for a model that's OP. Arguing that people should be saying "it's not cold enough" rather than "it's too hot" is pure pointless trolling, or idiocy - or both. Also, on Bette, don't forget that in Book 1 she was the only (iirc) model with a good Bury ability (DMs don't count as good) and had no way of cost effectively/reliably giving herself (+1) Fast to preserve the effects . It's only with book 2 that Bury broke in respect of her - and then only in a Levi list, and only really with a Stolen and a SS Miner to make it possible/cost effective. So, the fact it wasn't caught in Book 1 is perfectly reasonable - and it was a hard catch to make in playtesting for book 2. But my point is, there are players on here who DO easily see things like this and to not have them in play-testing is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Wyrd can't let average players test their rules and then hate people like me and Calmdown for breaking them. Edited March 4, 2012 by magicpockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 But my point is, there are players on here who DO easily see things like this and to not have them in play-testing is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Wyrd can't let average players test their rules and then hate people like me and Calmdown for breaking them. Since when did Wyrd hate you and Calmdown? .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Since when did Wyrd hate you and Calmdown? .. They're people aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 They're people aren't they? I've heard rumours about Sketch, to be honest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Since when did Wyrd hate you and Calmdown? .. Ok, maybe don't take it literally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 But my point is, there are players on here who DO easily see things like this and to not have them in play-testing is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Wyrd can't let average players test their rules and then hate people like me and Calmdown for breaking them. To be fair, no official at Wyrd has ever claimed they hate anyone on these forums. Not only is it probably unlikely, even if they were not some people's biggest fans they would never publicly say something about paying customers. Its just bad for business. What Wyrd has said(in there conduct guidelines as well as by posts from Nathan, Eric, sKeTcH, etc) is they are not fan of bulling, insults and trolling. I'm am not naming and names or saying certain people mentioned on these threads have done or not done such things. If they have I am sure Wyrd has already taken actions with them. I am just saying that some people who find breaks in the system decide to present them on the forums in very rude and obnoxious ways. In the end they get labelled trolls and start getting ignored by the greater community despite having real insight. Again as I have said earlier it comes down to playing nice with others on these forums, even those who opinions differ from your own. If you want proof that Wyrd appreciated players who ask lots of questions and discuss lots of rules break, look not further then Lalochezia and Karn. Both were very active in the community, discussing rules interactions, asking questions and posting broken combos, back around book 2s release and both of them are involved with the development side of Wyrd games now. ---------- Post added at 08:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ---------- Also to add a random post to make sure we don't let this thread get to serious WAFFLES! That is all ---------- Post added at 08:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 AM ---------- I've heard rumours about Sketch, to be honest... The tracks we have found definitely suggest that it is ape like. Clearly is isn't human but its clear that both Homosapiens and this creature share a common ancestor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenborne Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Sketch is a Neverborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 To be fair, I don't think anyone posts ideas (I'm trying to avoid the whole "broken" thing) in an obnoxious or rude ways. I think the people (person?) that's aimed at posts very plainly and just call it as they see it. I think the only time tempers have got frayed or things have got "rude or obnoxious" is when disagreements occur and strong personalities clash. (And for the record I've never been spoken to or warned about conduct by Wyrd, so hopefully that means I'm not "that" bad...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 why don't you go searching on the topic, given the search function is a bit too broad (every reference of every term =X ) to be of any decent use for things with open terms, or which come up a lot in builds or casually referenced. I did go searching (Google is a powerful tool when you know how to use it), but finding stuff that isn't there isn't easy. Of course I couldn't try every possible permutation, which is why I asked for a citation. ---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:11 PM ---------- Jeez, you're like my own personal pet goblin that follows me around and trolls my posts. Heh, you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orboros Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 This thread is derailing exactly like most big threads regarding similar topics did, which is a sad thing. People fighting small duells on the internet takes them nowhere yet it has to be done, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 This thread is derailing exactly like most big threads regarding similar topics did, which is a sad thing. People fighting small duells on the internet takes them nowhere yet it has to be done, right? That's a spurious and inflammatory comment which serves almost as much purpose as the posts you condemn, and only slightly less spurious and inflammatory than this post. but finding stuff that isn't there isn't easy. Well that bares no relevance to the conversation at all, given there are Bete posts. Further, the google inclusive search will reveal as much as the quick links > advanced search, given how commonly you will see Bete's name appear in lists and how freely people throw the term broken around especially given the nature of Bete posts including the term bury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orboros Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Inflammatoryception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarsnick Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Ice Cream Tier List 1 - Mint Chocolate Chip, Strawberry 2 - Cherry Garcia, Anything with caramel in it 3 - Rocky Road, Moose Tracks 4 - Pistachio DRAMA BOMB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 No baileys ice cream listed. You clearly don't have enough ice cream experience to make an accurate tier list. Get outside your local meta and then come back to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar86 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Ice Cream Tier List 1 - Mint Chocolate Chip, Strawberry 2 - Cherry Garcia, Anything with caramel in it 3 - Rocky Road, Moose Tracks 4 - Pistachio DRAMA BOMB! No Cookies and Cream!? Filthy heathen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Wyrd can't let average players test their rules and then hate people like me and Calmdown for breaking them. I generally like you, man, but you need to re-read this, take a long look at it, and ponder just how incredibly arrogant and insulting this sounds. I don't care how good think you are, how good you actually are, how much you know, or how much you share - attitudes like this are nothing but horrible for a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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