Borzag Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Hey all, So, after playing Ressers for most of my Malifaux Enjoyment Period, I've decided to switch over to Arcanists for a bit. Mostly because I've been improving my painting to the point where I feel I wouldn't embarrass myself by painting that Showgirls box I've had sitting there for over a year and a half by now. Anyway. While getting the cards together yesterday to organise, I came to an odd realisation. Colette + Showgirls box + Coryphee Duet = 35SS. On the button. Now, Colette's a stone-heavy caster, and even if she's stingy I can't see the 4 stones from that crew (3 cache + freebie) lasting beyond turn 3, if that. It also means that I'm struggling on what to do with Angelica (my test model for the minis) and the Gunsmiths, not to mention a few other ideas I had. So, what do experienced Colette players run, and where do you find the points for all your other kit? I'm just going to assume that all Mecha-Pigeons are summoned, so those are easy, but what about the rest, and her cache? No rush to let me know, as this is the only crew I'd be loath to run without a lick of paint, but advice would be much appreciated. Cheers! Borzag Edited February 19, 2012 by Borzag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I'm not a Colette player but from my experience the crew you have their is a pretty standard cookie-cutter build. I don't think you need to worry too much about Ss's, as your free one each turn and ability to create more from cards keeps the cache topped up nicely. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Colette! Awesome... Well CoLette needs stones as does the whole crew, most can use them due to use soulstone (particularly the duet) Colette cassandra 9 Performer/mannequin 5 Coryphee x2 (duet) 14 2 doves 4 7 stones cache Other bits probably a desperate merc or 2 and summon birds or drop performer/mannequin for 5ss Johan for range and punch probably recommended when starting out. Edited February 19, 2012 by zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th Warrior Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 You're absolutely right that the box set plus the Duet doesn't leave anything like enough Soulstones. The way I've run her pretty much since she came out is: Colette Mechanical Dove (2ss) Cassandra (9ss) 2 x Coryphee (14ss) Performer & Mannequin (6ss) That comes in at 31ss, leaving 4 plus Colette's cache of 3 for a starting total of 7, which is much better. You'll generally find, too, that for the first couple of turns you can afford to either burn 4 cards (2 in each activation) for an extra 2ss per turn, or burn 2 cards and create a Dove, leaving you with 11ss and a Dove or 9ss and 3 Doves. Turns 3 and 4 often become pretty hectic and soulstone heavy, so you'll use a lot between the various models that have Use Soulstone, but if things go well, then in the last 2-3 turns you can start Magician's Duelling models to death and gaining soulstones that way. I usually find that if things have gone well I have a healthy supply of soulstones left at the end of the game. Your problems start when you run out of soulstones by turn 4 or 5 - that's when the crew starts to fall apart. The key with Colette (for my money) is to only commit soulstones when you know it'll be most effective (killing a model with Magician's Duel, going for the Mannequin Replacement trigger on Disappearing Act against a big gribbly, etc). The other thing about Colette is to make sure you've always got a way out - don't let them get too far apart so you can swap places. They're not a crew that can go toe-to-toe with big hitters; I find they work superbly if you can hit and run with them rather than getting locked into melee. Cheers Rob @Zero - the Performer is 6ss not 5, and the crew you've listed there comes to 33ss, leaving a starting cache of 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaJo Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I take: Colette Cassandra Angelica 2 Coryphee I don't have a book on me to have the cost of Angelica. I ususally have a cache of 7 and add doves if I need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozz Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Angelica is 5, leaving you at 28 so with a Dove you are at 30 and 8 stones for a 35ss Game. But basically from your list (Box + Coryphee) Drop 1 Performer, add a Dove (as previously said:) ) Then you have also got a Mannequin free for Disappearing act if you get your triggers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 13th warrior - cheers I won't edit so it flows, but was doing it off the top of my head, basically trying to get the gist of what to take. I put 5 cause that's what it should cost Does Angelica have a role to play? I have looked into her but seems like she led the crew on a different direction? Interested to hear thoughts Anyhow borzag, youll have heaps of fun with her crew' Cassandra breath fire has been fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 13th Warriors list is really the only Collette list, thats exactly how i run her too. There is literally nothing you can change to make it better. Angelica doesnt really do a lot worth doing at the moment, at least no in 35ss games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonook Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Only problem I see if you take out the performer + mannequin is that you lose the mannequin's companion ability. Is Angelica or a gunsmith worth that trade off? Wouldn't mind hearing thoughts from anyone who has run Kaeris with Colette too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Angelica doesn't do much without a mannequin. If I'm correct Angelica gives you the ability to comPanion Colette, Angelica and a mannequin, then you can activate Colette them reactivate, then use Angelica to have Colette activate again. Or you can have two comPanion groups 18 inches away from each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I personally believe Angelica will see play at 35ss in non duet lists. Granted at 40ss she would always get shoed in(she is the colette austringer but minus a gun but+terrify protection). If you where top ask me what she would line up with my guess would be some combination of ss miners, cassie, 1 perf manne, 1-2 doves, and maybe points alotting kaeris plus student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borzag Posted February 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Thanks for the info gentlepeoples tempted to try and proxy a few things on the weekend to see if I can get the crazy movement shenanigans to work, but again, pretty models. 13th, much appreciated input from you buddy. PullMyFinger covers some of the overall strategy of the Showgirls, but you've added a few other things I'll probably start doing some research on. Handy info to have. Odin, you raise an interesting point.... at what point WOULDN'T you run the Duet? I can sort of see them being a liability against Ramos & Hoff, what with their Construct abilities, but elsewhere I'm not sure where I would give up speed & precision attacks for more warm bodies (says the Nicodem player). Any suggestions from the brains trust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Odin, you raise an interesting point.... at what point WOULDN'T you run the Duet? I can sort of see them being a liability against Ramos & Hoff, what with their Construct abilities, but elsewhere I'm not sure where I would give up speed & precision attacks for more warm bodies (says the Nicodem player). Any suggestions from the brains trust? Honestly, the only reason not to run the Duet is if you feel like a change from the usual list. They're one of the very few expensive models that is fully worth their cost - taking them is like running an extra Master in your crew, they can perform well in any role, and they provide powerful synergy to the rest of the Showgirls. There is literally nothing else a Colette player can spend 14 SS on that will perform better. I've gotten to the stage where (once I pick up Angelica) I will be running without the Duet just to see how the crew works without them - but in any competitive setting, they're an auto-include. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettqpublic Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I recently picked Collette up in a trade and haven't played her yet but I'm thinking of running the following list. Arcanists Crew - 35 - Scrap Colette Du Bois -- 7 Pool Kaeris [8ss] Cassandra, Magician's Apprentice [9ss] Coryphée [7ss] Coryphée [7ss] Low model count but everyone can use soulstones so it will be fairly survivable. Kaeris fills some gaps a normal Collette crew has. I could see it suffering in scenarios which require a lot of models but really strong in objective grabbing and slaughter/contain power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Writer@Large Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I've been thinking about Angelica, too. I'm just learning Colette, so I want to learn with her in the mix. I think the idea of her as an alpha strike setter-upper is about accurate. As her name implies, she's the one who introduces the show; she triggers first to paralyze and push and otherwise prepare the stage, then sends in the next act to do the damage. Not sure how good she will be, but I plan on trying her out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadai Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I've been thinking about Angelica, too. I'm just learning Colette, so I want to learn with her in the mix. I think the idea of her as an alpha strike setter-upper is about accurate. As her name implies, she's the one who introduces the show; she triggers first to paralyze and push and otherwise prepare the stage, then sends in the next act to do the damage. Not sure how good she will be, but I plan on trying her out. I don't have a lot of luck with her. Honestly for 1 more point you can bring along an extra performer/mann which is WAY more useful then Angelica. The Mannequin is just uber useful, and the performer I use as Cassie's personal walking spellbook/objective grabber. Bring out the Next Act is pretty nice and all, but I've never really been in a spot where I just HAD to get another crack at someone. "Do you want to see more" is worthless unless you are playing the right master, and even then it's situational. Her best move in my opinion is Projected Voice/Showstopper, but since it suffers from the terrible shooting into melee rules restriction (shoot into melee, random flip for who you actually target, aw $$$$$$$$, target a showgirl, wasted AP /sadface) its not that good. The only time I would actually prefer her over a Perform/Manne would be if I think I'm going to face a lot of Terrifying. Other then that I just don't see her as being worth the points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Thanks for the info gentlepeoples tempted to try and proxy a few things on the weekend to see if I can get the crazy movement shenanigans to work, but again, pretty models. 13th, much appreciated input from you buddy. PullMyFinger covers some of the overall strategy of the Showgirls, but you've added a few other things I'll probably start doing some research on. Handy info to have. Odin, you raise an interesting point.... at what point WOULDN'T you run the Duet? I can sort of see them being a liability against Ramos & Hoff, what with their Construct abilities, but elsewhere I'm not sure where I would give up speed & precision attacks for more warm bodies (says the Nicodem player). Any suggestions from the brains trust? To answer I would run angelica in a newcomer friendly setting instead of the duet (but in all honesty if I was playing in a newcomer friendly event I'd run Ramos cause with the experiance I have playing colette even not taking the duet would still probably be too cheeky given my familiarity with the crew). Also the problem I have found with the duet is using them every game after you understand how you play the crew (also how you play is very subjective I tend to play colette in a way that most people don't/avoid) can lead to getting bored with crew. Not that I am bored with colette but when I play with the duet their is a very specific order in which I do things in my crew and the problem with that is it can lead to the game becoming very boring and stale (strictly speaking from my personal perspective). However to end I would touch on what Kadeton said in a competitive setting unless I was hate running a non duet list to prove a point I myself wouldn't really consider not running the duet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinistercats Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'd love to hear more about this Odin- I'm trying to use a "non-duet" Colette crew lately and it's just not coming together for me. Maybe another one of your great tacticas..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'd love to hear more about this Odin- I'm trying to use a "non-duet" Colette crew lately and it's just not coming together for me. Maybe another one of your great tacticas..? The chance of this happening is increased by the amount of forum complaining about something without looking at it objectively and given that during a similar timing my usuage of spirits of the alcholic persuasion. I really try my best to not sound condescending when I broach certain subjects but often times people complain about stuff it really bugs the inner marine (USMC vet) in me and it is a very fine line between talking about something and trying to explain it and/or how to counter it, and wanting to strangle someone verbally over the forum who is acting as if they where a school age child (if their are those on here that are in that age group I mean no offense but when adults act like that I find it reprehensible ;-) ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nix Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Honestly, the only reason not to run the Duet is if you feel like a change from the usual list. They're one of the very few expensive models that is fully worth their cost - taking them is like running an extra Master in your crew, they can perform well in any role, and they provide powerful synergy to the rest of the Showgirls. There is literally nothing else a Colette player can spend 14 SS on that will perform better. I've gotten to the stage where (once I pick up Angelica) I will be running without the Duet just to see how the crew works without them - but in any competitive setting, they're an auto-include. I rarely run the duet, often opting for 2 Performers instead. I have seen the Duet do amazing things but have rarely gotten the same use out of it myself. On the other hand, having 2-3 performers on the table has been very very effective for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'd disagree that the Duet is an auto-include, because nothing in Malifaux is *ever* an auto-include. Although there are some "almost certainly includes" I cant give you a ton of examples off the top of my head, but I can give you one very good one: if you run a duet against Dreamer, as soon as he gets initiative (which he will do with an Insidious Madness, if he knows what he's doing) he will eat your Duet with Chompy and there'll be basically nothing you can do about it. If he gets initiative on turn 1, he'll eat your Coryphee before they even Dance Together. I wouldn't run a Duet against the Dreamer. I realise this contradicts my previous off-the-cuff "there is only one Collette list" comment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinistercats Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Well I think that's just it. I don't like the idea of a "one list" for Colette yet when I try to run something different the feel just isn't there. The "standard" list just clicked for me. Now I've seen some situations (as Calmdown describes) where that list might not be the optimal choice. Put another way- the Cory/Cassie/Colette list feels more like a Light Cav recon force. Don't get bogged down in one place- stick and move, etc. It feels like the Performer-style list is more a fireteam / close support platoon. Maybe? On paper it feels like that to me but I've not seem to get the overlaps going. By Overlaps I mean 1 activation to do A, the next activation to do B, etc. Thoughts on that..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Clausewitz Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'd disagree that the Duet is an auto-include, because nothing in Malifaux is *ever* an auto-include. Although there are some "almost certainly includes" I cant give you a ton of examples off the top of my head, but I can give you one very good one: if you run a duet against Dreamer, as soon as he gets initiative (which he will do with an Insidious Madness, if he knows what he's doing) he will eat your Duet with Chompy and there'll be basically nothing you can do about it. If he gets initiative on turn 1, he'll eat your Coryphee before they even Dance Together. I wouldn't run a Duet against the Dreamer. I realise this contradicts my previous off-the-cuff "there is only one Collette list" comment... This is the reason I think a second dove should be included against neverborn crews. Two doves makes it statistically likely that a coryphee will survive a chompy slingshot. And if played correctly (assuming the coryphee survived) your retaliation can eliminate two daydreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Colette Mechanical Dove (2ss) Cassandra (9ss) 2 x Coryphee (14ss) Performer & Mannequin (6ss) +1 on this (sometimes with 2 doves). Though, once the models are out I will try my hardest to squeeze in a Union Miner or two (don't ask me how, have to play larger games I guess). If you're set on running showgirls, just take it, and worry about your own crew/strategies/schemes (deny your opponent if possible). Against the Dreamer, I'm not sure what you'd run in place of the duet that wouldn't neuter the crew to some extent. I feel like taking out the duet reduces the effectiveness of Colette, Cassandra, the Performer, and the Mannequin. So much built in synergy between them all. Even taking more performers/mannequins just doesn't feel right to me, it changes the way the crew plays too much. Neverborn is a bummer in general for the duet, thanks to the Kidnap scheme (1 VP giveaway if you use dance together). @Calmdown What showgirls list would you take against the Dreamer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayezik Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 I have been wanting to pick up Colette but I want to try to come up with a non-duet list for her. Has anyone had and real good luck? From reading this thread and others, it seems that doesn't happen too much. Again @ Calmdown what do you use against dreamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.