Sonnia's appetite for stones

[Rannith]

Is 6 SS enough for non-avatar Sonnia Criid in a 30 SS scrap? I was thinking of running the following and was wondering if the remaining 6 SS would be sufficient.

Sonnia Criid (Walking Artillery)

Sam Hopkins (For Flaming Bullet fun times)

5 Witchling Stalkers (Recycling is good for the environment)

6 SS Pool

Or am I just mad?

Rannith

[LastDinosaur]

Personally I'd prefer to mix up the 4pters a bit, Death Marshalls (for ranged killiness) and maybe the Effigy (for some varied utility), but regardless I think it's a fairly solid list, there's no fixed answer as to how many stones she'll burn in a game, so have a few games with it, if you find you're starving even with 6SS then change, otherwise you're good..

I think it should suffice.

[ukrocky]

In mixing up the 4pters, I've used a student of conflict with Sonnia in the past to pretty decent effect, saying that though I doubt I'd take one in an avatar list...

[Mike3838]

I think "mad" might be a bit much lol. She's going to want to boost a few important casts in the average game, and maybe a couple kept in reserve for defence. That'll be a personal risk-averseness decision of course.

By no means does she *need* more than 6.

Mike

[LonelyPath]

I'd probably exchange one of the Witchlings for a Desperate Mercenary to gain some extra Soul Stone. Sonnia can munch through them at a alarming rate.

Also, if it was me I'd take Nino instead of Samael, he's darn right deadly at range and taken out Ice Golems with a single volley from him (thanks to triggers).

[micahwc]

Sam is also downright deadly at range if his target has a high enough casting. Speaking of this, why does a mature nephilim with no spells have a casting stat high enough for Sam to get his bonus?

[TheOneWhoFell]

I'd probably exchange one of the Witchlings for a Desperate Mercenary to gain some extra Soul Stone. Sonnia can munch through them at a alarming rate.

Also, if it was me I'd take Nino instead of Samael, he's darn right deadly at range and taken out Ice Golems with a single volley from him (thanks to triggers).

+1

I would actually take two. I know, you are't getting any extra soulstones, but you get two models where you had one, and both of them can be turned into stalkers... so you're getting two stalkers for the price of one.... ooOOOooo

Personally, I try to take 8ss with Sonnia when I can. But it's a tough call. Six would probably be good

[Math Mathonwy]

+1

I would actually take two. I know, you are't getting any extra soulstones, but you get two models where you had one, and both of them can be turned into stalkers... so you're getting two stalkers for the price of one.... ooOOOooo

Personally, I try to take 8ss with Sonnia when I can. But it's a tough call. Six would probably be good

You would take a crew that would leave 10SS to the pool (causing an overflow of two)? Exchanging a Stalker for a Desp Merc to turn into a Stalker? Ummm... that's certainly a bit different.

[Brettqpublic]

I've ran her several times at 25SS with a 7 cache. Honestly, I blow through them by turn 3 or 4. Turns 2,3,4 I'm spending one just to get the tome in my CA, then I'm usually burning 1-2 a turn to get Flame Burst into the cheatable range, and somewhere in there I'm usually burning a couple more for defense.

In my, albeit limited, experience Sonnia drops off immensely when she's used up her stones. At that point you're basically hoping for good flips or have tomes in hand to get anything out of her. As such, I always try and run max SS with her.

[von Clausewitz]

I always take 8 stones with Sonnia. Her effectiveness revolves around getting in a few key spells at opportune times. If you don't have the stones to guarantee that Violation of Magic succeeds with a single cast, or a severe damage Flame burst to drop blast markers on a hidden Hollow Waif for example, then Sonnia is mediocre at best. Sonnia is entirely reliant on preemptive, overwhelming use of force as she cannot survive against any strong targets that close to melee range. So, make your spells count by using Soulstones liberally.

[TheOneWhoFell]

Is 6 SS enough for non-avatar Sonnia Criid in a 30 SS scrap? I was thinking of running the following and was wondering if the remaining 6 SS would be sufficient.

Sonnia Criid (Walking Artillery)

Sam Hopkins (For Flaming Bullet fun times)

5 Witchling Stalkers (Recycling is good for the environment)

6 SS Pool

Or am I just mad?

Rannith

You would take a crew that would leave 10SS to the pool (causing an overflow of two)? Exchanging a Stalker for a Desp Merc to turn into a Stalker? Ummm... that's certainly a bit different.

it wouldn't be an overflow...

Sonnia

witchling x4 =16ss

sam = 8ss

merc x2 = 4ss

same number of soulstones spent (for a 30ss scrap). But as the Mercs die, Sonnia can turn them into witchlings... so you are essentially getting two stalkers for the price of one. The mercs will die on their own (they take wounds each turn, and their abilites kill them) so why not do something useful with them?

It doesn't help with the "do I need more ss" conundrum (unless you drop two witchlings instead of one) but it does give you a larger number of minions

[von Clausewitz]

I'd probably exchange one of the Witchlings for a Desperate Mercenary to gain some extra Soul Stone. Sonnia can munch through them at a alarming rate.

Also, if it was me I'd take Nino instead of Samael, he's darn right deadly at range and taken out Ice Golems with a single volley from him (thanks to triggers).

I absolutely agree, particularly with an aSonnia list. You can Inferno to take the mercs down to one wound, then use for my family to get off some 'roided out shots with the merc followed by violation of magic to get a stalker. Three birds with two soulstones.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I've ran her several times at 25SS with a 7 cache. Honestly, I blow through them by turn 3 or 4. Turns 2,3,4 I'm spending one just to get the tome in my CA, then I'm usually burning 1-2 a turn to get Flame Burst into the cheatable range, and somewhere in there I'm usually burning a couple more for defense.

In my, albeit limited, experience Sonnia drops off immensely when she's used up her stones. At that point you're basically hoping for good flips or have tomes in hand to get anything out of her. As such, I always try and run max SS with her.

I always take 8 stones with Sonnia. Her effectiveness revolves around getting in a few key spells at opportune times. If you don't have the stones to guarantee that Violation of Magic succeeds with a single cast, or a severe damage Flame burst to drop blast markers on a hidden Hollow Waif for example, then Sonnia is mediocre at best. Sonnia is entirely reliant on preemptive, overwhelming use of force as she cannot survive against any strong targets that close to melee range. So, make your spells count by using Soulstones liberally.

First this is a common misconception of Sonia. She does not need a large pool, what she needs is a person who plays resource management well. She plays fine with 4-8, sometimes I feel like I want 8 but never feel I need 8. I learned to play with 4-5 and have done just fine with her. Everyone I played against with 7-8 I have beaten with a variety of masters.

Does she need a stone first turn?. No on almost every occasion. I question how can burn 7-8 stones in 3 turns.

Does she need to use confiscated lore each turn she is going to blast? No, pay attention to what you have on hand. You might only need one cast you have the tome in hand or only one good cast. I often walk cast, blast walk back, that is one stone and one tome from hand.

Also it is so common that I see people feel they need to cheat for a blast. Don't bother everytime, she is so dangerous that I let feel they can cheat you out of cheating, her cast is usually high enough that you can put it as unbeatable especially at lore, save the stone for later, let them waste resources to prevent.

Take a student of conflict for that extra AP so you can maximize your lore return. 3

Edited January 5, 2012 by Mr. Bigglesworth

[Rannith]

The mercs will die on their own (they take wounds each turn, and their abilites kill them) so why not do something useful with them?

Hi TheOne,

Thanks for this I will definitely look into those. There is something that confuses me though. I am reading through the Desperate Merc Entry in the Rising Powers book and I can't see anything to indicate they lose a wound every Turn automatically. They do go POP! in the third Turn Start Closing Phase but nothing says they "bleed out" up to that point.

Regards

Rannith

[Requirement]

First this is a common misconception of Sonia. She does not need a large pool, what she needs is a person who plays resource management well. She plays fine with 4-8, sometimes I feel like I want 8 but never feel I need 8. I learned to play with 4-5 and have done just fine with her.

I couldn't have said it better myself, manage your resources and you only need 6 stones. I almost never take her with more than 6 stones. Who is flame bursting every turn? There are likely going to be at least two turns that don't require or even suggest that you flame burst. Wait until your opponent is at a pinch point and then blast them twice (hopefully with high cards in hand) for probably only one stone for lore. Malifaux is all resource management, soulstones are still resources.

Now as to who to bring, I personally like taking witchling stalkers, as they make very nice bombs; so, what's the worst that could happen with bringing an extra or two little explodey stalkers and charging them right up to your opponent? I like this tactic because it frequently distracts and damages my opponent for at least one turn.

[Calmdown]

Every master in the game should be played with as close to 8ss as you can get. Soulstones are quite simply the most powerful thing in Malifaux, even more so than minions. It's one of the main reasons that masters like Perdita and Seamus suffer.

Confiscated Lore just means that you need to ensure your pool is maxed even more.

[von Clausewitz]

Every master in the game should be played with as close to 8ss as you can get. Soulstones are quite simply the most powerful thing in Malifaux, even more so than minions. It's one of the main reasons that masters like Perdita and Seamus suffer.

Confiscated Lore just means that you need to ensure your pool is maxed even more.

Glad to see that someone agrees with me. If I could I would take 10 stones with Sonnia. SS allow you to dictate the flow of the game. When you can predict the outcome of duels with nearly absolute certainty then you have a significant advantage over your opponent. Every stone you have is one more predictable duel.

[Headcase2]

Every master in the game should be played with as close to 8ss as you can get. Soulstones are quite simply the most powerful thing in Malifaux, even more so than minions. It's one of the main reasons that masters like Perdita and Seamus suffer.

Confiscated Lore just means that you need to ensure your pool is maxed even more.

<-- This. Outcasts masters suffer even more with their cache of 0. As for Sonnia, I always run her with 7-8 stones (or very rarely 6, in really small games).

You could spend 4 ss on a minion, or use 1 ss with your master to blow said minion to bits.

You could spend 4 ss on a minion only to lose your master because all of a sudden he's out of stones when the time comes to defend/prevent wounds.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Every master in the game should be played with as close to 8ss as you can get. Soulstones are quite simply the most powerful thing in Malifaux, even more so than minions. It's one of the main reasons that masters like Perdita and Seamus suffer.

Confiscated Lore just means that you need to ensure your pool is maxed even more.

I totally disagree and reason why is ss allows your master to dictate the flow, but your master is of a crew. The crew make up helps determine the flow. Each master will utilize their stones differently. For example lady j is going to use them defensively more than Sonia using them offensively. Pandora is going to use them for movement shennigans, and zoradia I find doesn't need that many since she starts with 5 and is hard to target.

Strategy also dictates how many stones you need. Contain power im usualky maxed on all masters, while reconnotier I feel it out, often going for fewer.

There are a few masters I take 7-8 everytime, but Sonia is not one.

[fishtank]

I just wish it didn't cost me a soul stone just to make Sonnia's offensive spell casting reliable

Sure feels like having to use my (0) action instead of casting Inferno for the tome would be plenty of cost.

Edited February 26, 2012 by fishtank

[Brettqpublic]

[quote=Headcase2;

You could spend 4 ss on a minion only to lose your master because all of a sudden he's out of stones when the time comes to defend/prevent wounds.

[von Clausewitz]

In my experience the person to gas out on stones first often loses.

Which is precisely why 7-8 stones is optimal. Running out of stones before your opponent can be disastrous. There is nothing wrong with ending the game with a stone or two left in your pool if you win.

[Brettqpublic]

Which is precisely why 7-8 stones is optimal. Running out of stones before your opponent can be disastrous. There is nothing wrong with ending the game with a stone or two left in your pool if you win.

Yep, 7-8 cache is my target number for Sonnia and Lady J. I wish I could fit that many in for Perdita but her initial cache is too low. Hoffman I generally only run with 4-6 since he doesn't have much need for stones himself.

[von Clausewitz]

Yep, 7-8 cache is my target number for Sonnia and Lady J. I wish I could fit that many in for Perdita but her initial cache is too low. Hoffman I generally only run with 4-6 since he doesn't have much need for stones himself.

I typically try for a cache of 6 with Perdita. I find that 6 with Perdita is functionally equivalent to 8 with Sonnia or Lady J since Sonnia will use those two stones for Confiscated Lore and Lady J on defense flips.

[nix]

I find it interesting that people in this thread are pointing to confiscated lore mostly for her blast spells. Her blasts are nice but I find they are not her most effective spell.

Onto the question of the Desp Mercs and their losing wounds. They do not lose wounds every turn. Sonnia, however, has a great way to reduce them to Violation bait turn 1. Typically Sonnia is not needing to use Confiscated lore turn 1, so putting up an inferno and leaving the Merc's within 3inches of her drops them to 1wnd. This fires up their Frantic ability plus makes them perfect Violation targets.