magicpockets Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Played two games last night against Dreamer/LCB. First game bounced Dreamer in and dropped LCB on Levi and 3 stitched with Fast on my waifs (2 on 1 and 1 on the other). Killed them all in the same activation. Second game her dropped LCB on Levi and took him down to one wound, then killed my waifs and Levi with Collodi and 4x Marionettes. Aside form a Guardian which I think will only prolong the agony, what can Levi do here? I'm not used to losing games, let alone within 2 turns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 If it makes you feel better... this happened to me too... twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted December 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Metal Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Chompy is a hard match up to start a game against. Who deployed first in the games. How far apart were your waifs? What did the rest of your crew look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted December 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 1. He deployed first. 2. Waifs were about 12 inches apart as far away from Levi on opposite sides, however by dropping Dreamer next to Levi he can drop models onto both waifs - esp as waifs have to be "completely within" 6 inches and nightmares are only "within" 6 inches) 3. My crew was Levi, SS Miner, Alyce, 4xSPAs. But doesn't matter as he rinsed me before anything could activate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necromorph Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) You're used to playing Hamelin, who can compete with Dreamer on sheer cheeze factor alone. Levi is, unfortunately, not one of the "Top 5". His biggest problem when book 2 came out was the fact that Kirai, Colette, and Dreamer are all fast enough to get to his Waifs. Sadly, the Dreamer is probably the worst of the 3, because you might actually get a chance to respond or fight back with the other 2, but the dreamer will kill you and your waifs quick, just like you described. Honestly, I haven't found a way to beat a good dreamer player with Levi. You could try to block placement to waifs with other models (wont help against chompy himself with a 3" reach). Maybe try to take things that explode when they die and use them like land mines, idk. All of my experience against the dreamer with Levi was against a new player who didn't alpha strike with him, not so hard then. Maybe now that he has more experience and a Nightmare Edition, maybe he'll play him more so I can get some experience. Edited December 8, 2011 by Necromorph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Imho necro hit it on the head. I cant bring my self to play levi anymore. Just 2 easy in current games to kill him. I have had him and his waif die first turn before i even got to take an activation. This is one of the flaws with the faction vs faction balance the game shoots for. Some masters simply have bad matchups and this is one. Kirai is another master that can make levi cry himself to sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snord Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 ... esp as waifs have to be "completely within" 6 inches and nightmares are only "within" 6 inches)... Slight side comment here, but AFAIK, all placement effects, unless noted otherwise, must be completely within. So, when the Dreamer unburies stuff, they have to be placed completely within 6". From the rules manual: PLACEMENT EFFECTS A placement effect changes an in-play model's location on the table without using a movement effect to travel through terrain or other models, or brings a model that is not currently in play onto the table. A model's base must be placed where it can fit, and may not be placed so that any portion of it is further than the placement effect permits. ... PLACE ... Unless stated otherwise, a model's base must be placed completely within any stated range. Another example of the application of the same rule is Kirai's trigger on evolve spirit. On a double crow, she can take an extra wound "to summon the model within 12"". It also means completely within 12". Correct me if I am wrong, please, but that is how we play at our LGS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Slight side comment here, but AFAIK, all placement effects, unless noted otherwise, must be completely within. So, when the Dreamer unburies stuff, they have to be placed completely within 6". From the rules manual: Another example of the application of the same rule is Kirai's trigger on evolve spirit. On a double crow, she can take an extra wound "to summon the model within 12"". It also means completely within 12". Correct me if I am wrong, please, but that is how we play at our LGS. I believe you're correct. That's how I've read it and played it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fading Memory Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 The " place this model within 6 inches" falls under the "unless otherwise stated." This has been talked about before. I can't remember where and my search abilities seem to be elusive today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snord Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 The " place this model within 6 inches" falls under the "unless otherwise stated." This has been talked about before. I can't remember where and my search abilities seem to be elusive today. Wording on the Dreamer: (1) Frightening Dream (...): Place one friendly buried Nightmare within 6" of this model. Wording on Kirai: Ca(:crows:crows) Don't Blink: this model suffers 1 Wd. Place summoned model within 12". So what you are saying is that neither of the above cases has to be *completely* within? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kael Hate Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Question: Is it plausible to place Levi in a cornice such that LCB cannot be placed within 3"? When playing Lazarus I wanted to charge a Guild model in a walkway. the Space between the 2 walls was less than 40mm wide allowing the smaller models access but not Laz. Could this situation be used to protect Levi or a Waif? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fading Memory Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 So what you are saying is that neither of the above cases has to be *completely* within? Summoned models have to be completely within their range. In most circumstances this will be completely within 6 inches. The trigger for Kirai means the model has to be summoned completely within 12". There is a difference between "completely within XX inches and "within XX inches." pg 37 of the rules manual defines these terms and there is a diagram to go with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 ^^ I think that's right. Summon is always "completely within" whereas place is "completely within unless stated otherwise" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Question: Is it plausible to place Levi in a cornice such that LCB cannot be placed within 3"? When playing Lazarus I wanted to charge a Guild model in a walkway. the Space between the 2 walls was less than 40mm wide allowing the smaller models access but not Laz. Could this situation be used to protect Levi or a Waif? Not if you want to achieve your objectives etc, you can't move up/across the board and maintain that type of defensive placement. I think it could be part of the solution, but I need to come up with a way to survive the initial attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 :tj: Back on topic Just ordered a Guardian and Collodi's box to add to the mix. Hopefully be here in time to play a test game against the same LCB crew on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Metal Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 My Collodi set is currently under the brush and going to hit the table tomorrow for a test run. How do you plan to use it as a defense against the dreamer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 More of a deterrent really, use the Guardian with Levi to survive any wounds from an LCB drop (which is how he's being killed every time), JackDaw to stop him cheating/using soulstones, and then flurry him to death with marionnettes. The only way I can see this working is to survive the initial attack and then take LCB out as the lynch pin. With him dead it means the Dreamer has to play a lot more conservatively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 It looks like you've picked a good counter. If Leveticus is left alive, he has a good chance of killing chompy and creating more waifs. Collodi will be able to go and assasinate the dreamer and/or any daydreams. In fact, if you win initiative, then you can probably kill all the daydreams before the dreamer activates. This will stop the whole crew being dropped on you. Not sure how chompy and 3 fast stiched were able to kill Leveticus and the 2 waifs in one activation. I've not played this matchup myself, so its all theory from my side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Not sure how chompy and 3 fast stiched were able to kill Leveticus and the 2 waifs in one activation. 1. Onslaught 2. Paired claws 3. Poison 2 from Teeth 4. Cb 6/7 vs Df 2 5. LCB = lots of SS, Levi != Lots of SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Maybe play him with more SS to survive the Alphastrike and eradicate him afterwards ? Could Alice help with her bag o tricks ? You could play a stolen and proxy him with the 3. waif model as decoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Lol, "I'm not telling you which one is the stolen, you need to guess" In the second game Levi had 8ss and still went down. He effectively only needs to do 5 wounds and kill the waifs as poison 2 and the 1 wd at the end of the turn do him in. Just didn't have enough ss do combat, do damage prevention flips, prevent poison wounds and prevent teh 1 wd at the end of the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Some Matchups are just an auto loss if your opponent knows his moves... but the good thing with malifaux is, that it is fun even then ! (for me at least) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 More of a deterrent really, use the Guardian with Levi to survive any wounds from an LCB drop (which is how he's being killed every time), JackDaw to stop him cheating/using soulstones, and then flurry him to death with marionnettes. The only way I can see this working is to survive the initial attack and then take LCB out as the lynch pin. With him dead it means the Dreamer has to play a lot more conservatively. This list idea is a good idea, but would only work if you could prime your defenses. You need two and he can hit you in one if he wants to start. That means his crew is not primed. I would forgo priming at a chance to wipe Levi off the board in one shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 I only need one to get Protect up in time, with a 5 difference in combat in his favour I wouldn't prime JackDaw until I was ready to attack with Marionnettes. And the sad truth is, if I lose initiative and he LCB bombs me there's nothing I could do any different anyway - it's just a case of praying for good cards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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