Avatars - an arcanists viewpoint

[Tograth]

Hi folks,

one thing I feel we need is for a collective view on the performance of the different avatars as time goes on. What I propose is a selection of posts which I will update as time goes on, each with general impressions, tips, tricks etc for the avatars in question, which can eventually be used to put together something for the wiki.

Basically, if you have any feedback about how the avatars perform, and how to make the most of them, or not, as the case may be, please post, and we can incorporate it in.

[Tograth]

Avatar Colette placeholder

[Tograth]

Avatar Marcus:

AMarcus can do some fun things with his beasts.

IMHO...

Pros:

Gains a wd

Chimeric assault (for flexible damaging)

Fast

Flight

Rise of the Beasts (TWO friendlies activate after AMarc).

Instinctive Behavior (FTW!) - Obey for beasts, gives them +2 Cg, -2 Df, and +1 attack and damage flip for melee until the SCP.

Cons:

Loses Wild Heart (it's a rough trade-off)

For some reason, Stare Down is dumbed down to Dominance, which is the same thing except it's only non-masters, and only on opposed duels. Not sure the reason for the cuddle honestly. Still definitely usable though.

Favorite Combo Yet To Try

-AMarc activates, using Instinctive Behavior on s/o with lots of attacks (say... a cerberus, or better yet, a rogue necromancy once it comes out). Makes the thing charge an enemy model (at +2 charge, with a +1 flip to attack and +2 flips to damage for the charge). Don't forget that it also has +1 Cb from Mark of Instinct.

-AMarc does other stuff (whatever he wants to with his remaining 2 general AP and 2 (0)'s, and chooses Myranda and cerb/RN to activate after him. Make sure he's w/i 6" of both at the end of his activation.

-Myranda activates and uses AMarc's Instinctive Behaviour to make the cerb/RN attack again... this time at +2 flips to attack and damage and +1 Cb. So silly.

-Myranda does other stuff

-Cerb/RN wrecks people to shreds with 4 attacks, EACH with +2 flips to attack and damage, or +3 to the attack if RN uses his claws, and +1 Cb (again from Mark of Instinct). Mind you, Cerb/RN now has -4 Df from the Instinctive Behaviors, so be careful of your timing and drive the (6 ungodly) attacks home when you can.

Other Combos yet to Try

Scheme: Marcus's personal

Situation: Marcus is in a crowd of units

- Marcus starts unmanifested, and howls (1)

- Marcus manfests into AMarc (try to make it a (1) or (0) action)

- AMarc now has fast, which he uses on (1) Give into It (everyone w/i 8" makes a WP 12 or becomes a beast. All also have a -3 WP).

- (0) Dominance to make any non-master who failed Give into It get a -1 flip to all opposed duels.

- AMarc does other stuff (may have another AP and/or (0) action left to do cool stuff)

- Activate two other beasts after to clean up the scheme.

Evolutionary Confluence can be pretty nasty is AMarc starts in melee range of a bunch of small-mid-range units (with fast, can do damage and poison them, which can easily kill a large number of units with even weak damage). So much for those activations...

AMarc and the Cerb/RN can also chain Roar/True Forms to make a lot of falling back potential. Living models beware.

Yes, I realize that I have used Cerb/RN in almost all cases above. AMarc has given him somewhat of a new respect in my eyes .

Edited September 1, 2011 by Tograth

[Tograth]

Avatar Rasputina:

she loses her ranged casting power, but her melee and abilities are superb.

to begin:

stats: with a wp of 8, even pandora will think twice before going into wp duel with her, df is only 4, but she has armor +2 that ignores damage

every model within 3" of her receives scatter, so going into melee with some rats would be funny since you kill 1, you killed them all.

"winter walks with her" funny for people who want to run and hit her.

spells:

frigid offspring: a (0) spell to summon a gamin from a corpse counter, i love this, i won a game with this spell. gamins can claim things, you need a 7 :tomes though, but no problem.

instill cravings another (0) spell: i love to use this on a a caster, when the target does not inlfict 1wd with a melee attack during it's activation, it suffers 1wd not so much, but can be painfull on masters like pandora or nicodem, or even ramos, and (this is the funny part) lasts until encounter,

decembers maw, could be good, but i havn't found a way to use this (candy kept running away) 2" melee spell, to sacrifice models when they suffered wounds this turn, (only ht1 or 2)

hungry winds: 8 of ice wind from silent one, but with no healing, not a big fan of this, 1 dg/:crows in the casting, can be negated if you discard a card.

she has a funny trigger as well, models killed by her ice blade get shatter 4

and she has eat your fill. could be usefull, didn't have to use it yet, whenever she manifests, she is hard to take down.

avatar of famine is a good avatar, not the best, but good, but situational, with reconnoiter and if you have the ability to gain some corpse counters good, with slaugther, well, if you can use her, do it, everyone wants to get in melee with her, in her avatar, you don't want to, and to summon extra gamins you can use as walking bombs.

i love the avatar, and I'm glad that she has gained some melee power, i know some of you would say that is bad, but when she manifests, you are turn 2-4, you will get in melee range with her, i wouldn't be suprised if you manifest when you are in melee

Edited August 29, 2011 by Tograth

[Tograth]

Avatar Ramos:

Ramos undergoes a very big change with manifestation - he goes from being a very much ranged support caster and summoner, to being one of the more adept melee monsters out there.

Mobility:

Ramos has a great deal more mobility when he avatars, with Arachnid, a movement of 5/8 and Leap. This, in addition to the movement buff he gives every construct in his crew, means that he can get most of the way across the board in a single activation. Innovative Design also aids in buffing his movement (see below).

Scrap counters:

Ramos has two different ways of gaining scrap counters: Trash into Treasures (a (1) action that gains a scrap counter) and Learn from Mistakes (+1 scrap counter each time you take damage from an enemy model).

These are then used for Hasty Assembly and Innovative Design.

Hasty Assembly:

this ability allows ramos to discard 2 scrap counters to summon any guild or arcanist construct without smoldering or frozen heart that costs 5 SS or less, with the constructs coming in wounded. This doesnt include totems or unique models, so at first glance doesnt look the greatest.

That is, until you look closer and see how fast he can generate scrap. With this ability Ramos can create one of four things:

Guild Watchers

Steampunk Arachnids

Large Steampunk Arachnids

Guild Wardens

both the wardens and LSAs are really nice models, and both provide a large amount of synergy with the general Ramos crew, providing a strong melee punch.

One aspect of the Large Steampunk Arachnid that I really like is that it's now on a 50mm base, as seen at Gencon. As such, Ramos can discard 2 scrap counters to effectively make 3 that walk around and hit things a bit first. Plus as it's 2 wounds down, it's closer to being usable scrap counters again.

Lovely stuff.

Neatest trick that I like with Avatar Ramos, is to go ahead and bring either the Mobile Toolkit or Brass Arachnid to start with, and then just before you Manifest, use Combat Mechanic, and kill the Totem with the spell in order to heal Ramos or some other Construct. Then the killed Totem also drops a Scrap Counter, which Ramos can immediately pick up if you positioned things right.

Durability:

Ramos is ridiculously durable, what with 11 wounds, Defense 5 and Armor 2. He has two defensive triggers - Electrocute (masks) which damages attackers on moderate or severe damage to Ramos, and Pneumatic Grip (Crows) which prevents further attacks and disengaging strikes when the attacker misses the first time.

In addition to these, Innovative Design gives Ramos options - Does he discard scrap counters to gain armor? or does he discard to make a healing flip?

Innovative Design:

This is a (0) action which Ramos can take once per turn.

By discarding scrap counters, ramos can choose one of 5 effects:

- Make a healing flip

- Gain Armor

- Make Charge actions cost 1 AP

- increase his walk to 8

- make 2 melee attacks on a single target

All of these effects except the melee and healing flips are permanent until the next time ID is used.

This gives Ramos a huge resource in nearly any situation -

in melee - either with somehting big and nasty or a large group? ID, melee attack and spend your remaining AP on melee strikes.

About to get hit by a large amount of damage? Armour up.

In need of assistance? healing please.

Melee:

Ramos has 2 different attacks:

Clockwork fist has a Cb of 6, range 1 and the Brutal trigger and damage 2/4/5. a good, if short ranged, melee attack that can really add up to lots of damage.

Mechanical Limb has a Cb of 5 with the Pin trigger and damage 3/4/6. Range 2, it can reach out and with rams in the attack total can stop the defender from getting away.

With melee expert and ID, ramos has an incredible melee potential, with effectively 5 melee strikes a turn (if in combat) or 3 strikes against a target within 10". Seriously vicious.

Spells:

Leap: this provides a nice movement boost to Ramos, although it precludes him using Innovative Design.

Electrical Creation:

One of the mainstays of Ramos' offensive spellcasting armament remains. The EC is still deliciously dangerous to the enemy, and it has even more of a threat range with Ramos' increased movement.

Electrical Fire:

The other pillar upon which Ramos' ranged firepower rests is also still present. Electrical Fire provides a much needed counterpoint to Ramos' vicious melee damage, and means that he can still hang in at range.

Overide:

this is a (2) spell with a pulse range of 8" that requires Ramos to discard a soulstone to cast, but what it does is frankly frightening - it is effectively an obey pulse which affects every construct in range that fails to resist, including Ramos, and it gets past Immunities to Willpower duels.

with this spell, you can swamp the enemy with constructs, and then rip them apart in a single activation. The biggest impediment to this would be the Anathema ability of Seamus and Pandora, which would both cause terrifying tests in the constructs.

Ignoring that for the moment however, and you can see a huge amount of synergy.

For instance: you have spiders? Run them up and latch on to something big and nasty. Override with Ramos, and then use the spiders to eat the target alive.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Tograth

[sephiroa]

Rasputina,

she loses her ranged casting power, but her melee and abilities are superb.

to begin:

stats: with a wp of 8, even pandora will think twice before going into wp duel with her, df is only 4, but she has armor +2 that ignores damage

every model within 3" of her receives scatter, so going into melee with some rats would be funny since you kill 1, you killed them all.

"winter walks with her" funny for people who want to run and hit her.

spells:

frigid offspring: a (0) spell to summon a gamin from a corpse counter, i love this, i won a game with this spell. gamins can claim things, you need a 7 :tomes though, but no problem.

instill cravings another (0) spell: i love to use this on a a caster, when the target does not inlfict 1wd with a melee attack during it's activation, it suffers 1wd not so much, but can be painfull on masters like pandora or nicodem, or even ramos, and (this is the funny part) lasts until encounter,

decembers maw, could be good, but i havn't found a way to use this (candy kept running away) 2" melee spell, to sacrifice models when they suffered wounds this turn, (only ht1 or 2)

hungry winds: 8 of ice wind from silent one, but with no healing, not a big fan of this, 1 dg/:crows in the casting, can be negated if you discard a card.

she has a funny trigger as well, models killed by her ice blade get shatter 4

and she has eat your fill. could be usefull, didn't have to use it yet, whenever she manifests, she is hard to take down.

avatar of famine is a good avatar, not the best, but good, but situational, with reconnoiter and if you have the ability to gain some corpse counters good, with slaugther, well, if you can use her, do it, everyone wants to get in melee with her, in her avatar, you don't want to, and to summon extra gamins you can use as walking bombs.

i love the avatar, and I'm glad that she has gained some melee power, i know some of you would say that is bad, but when she manifests, you are turn 2-4, you will get in melee range with her, i wouldn't be suprised if you manifest when you are in melee

[Geckilian]

One aspect of the Large Steampunk Arachnid that I really like is that it's now on a 50mm base, as seen at Gencon. As such, Ramos can discard 2 scrap counters to effectively make 3 that walk around and hit things a bit first. Plus as it's 2 wounds down, it's closer to being usable scrap counters again.

Lovely stuff.

[sephiroa]

One aspect of the Large Steampunk Arachnid that I really like is that it's now on a 50mm base, as seen at Gencon. As such, Ramos can discard 2 scrap counters to effectively make 3 that walk around and hit things a bit first. Plus as it's 2 wounds down, it's closer to being usable scrap counters again.

Lovely stuff.

i won't be suprised if we will see a lot of LSA with ramos now

i don't mind, i love the avatar of ramos. i want to test him one of these days

[LoboStele]

Yeah, the LSA just gained ALL SORTS of levels of awesome by being a 50mm instead of a 40mm. Almost worth it just for taking 1 at the beginning of the game, and killing it early on just in order to both summon regular 3 pt arachnids, and still let Ramos move around a bit during the first turn or 2.

But they will be flat-out awesome with Avatar Ramos. Heck, would almost be worth while to have Ramos Manifest, then have one of your own models attack him 3 times (do min damage for no more than 1 Wd). Then he'd have 3 Scrap Counters to summon an LSA and then do a Healing flip with Innovative Design. May not always be a good tactic, but has some interesting options, for sure!

Neatest trick that I like with Avatar Ramos, is to go ahead and bring either the Mobile Toolkit or Brass Arachnid to start with, and then just before you Manifest, use Combat Mechanic, and kill the Totem with the spell in order to heal Ramos or some other Construct. Then the killed Totem also drops a Scrap Counter, which Ramos can immediately pick up if you positioned things right.

[TroyPerez]

As a Ramos player I don't see any reason why you would never take the avatar form. It makes up for his biggest weakness which is being way too slow. And actually gives him a chance to get his master specific scheme.

[Drake]

Anyone planning on using Colette's Avatar?

Im not convinced she is worth using....

Pro's?...

1.Takes damage at half rate when Decoy gets hit instead of her

2.effectively 9 Action points and 3 (0) actions in a single activation amongst her and her decoys, including 3 artificial soulstones

Con's

1. Cant have Doves to protect your Coryphee Duet

2. Can't generate Soulstones

3. Cant save herself with Slow to Die

4. with 3 models on the board, gives more targets/opportunities to attack her and kill her (harder for her to avoid the enemy)

5. Can't use illusionist

6. Lose her Df trigger

7. Lose Disappearing Act

Overall, it completely changes the crew's dynamic, which although it makes the Showgirls a bit more aggressive, makes a fragile crew far less surviveable.

Still manipulative, but not in a way that suits my style of play.

Any thoughts, benefits or disadvantages I havent discussed?

Will you use her Avatar? Maybe she is one you might bring out if your Coryphee Duet dies, and you need the doves a lot less and need to make up for the loss of the Duet and its threat potential?

[Calmdown]

Anyone planning on using Colette's Avatar?

Im not convinced she is worth using....

Pro's?...

1.Takes damage at half rate when Decoy gets hit instead of her

2.effectively 9 Action points and 3 (0) actions in a single activation amongst her and her decoys, including 3 artificial soulstones

Con's

1. Cant have Doves to protect your Coryphee Duet

2. Can't generate Soulstones

3. Cant save herself with Slow to Die

4. with 3 models on the board, gives more targets/opportunities to attack her and kill her (harder for her to avoid the enemy)

5. Can't use illusionist

6. Lose her Df trigger

7. Lose Disappearing Act

Overall, it completely changes the crew's dynamic, which although it makes the Showgirls a bit more aggressive, makes a fragile crew far less surviveable.

Still manipulative, but not in a way that suits my style of play.

Any thoughts, benefits or disadvantages I havent discussed?

Will you use her Avatar? Maybe she is one you might bring out if your Coryphee Duet dies, and you need the doves a lot less and need to make up for the loss of the Duet and its threat potential?

She's going to give you a lot of hand advantage. So when your crew has to go offensive and straight up fight someone, she's going to be a gem, and you'll have to worry about keeping her safe even less than usual; she dishes out pain but so does normal Collette with MD, anyway. She's far from an auto include but definitely has her uses I think, like a lot of the Avatars. The real problem is that finding 2 points in a Collette list is hard enough as it is

[Uncle]

She's going to give you a lot of hand advantage. So when your crew has to go offensive and straight up fight someone, she's going to be a gem, and you'll have to worry about keeping her safe even less than usual; she dishes out pain but so does normal Collette with MD, anyway. She's far from an auto include but definitely has her uses I think, like a lot of the Avatars. The real problem is that finding 2 points in a Collette list is hard enough as it is

At 35 SS, fitting in the Avatar is pretty simple--you just cut the Dove that you'd be taking otherwise. However, I'm not fully convinced that she's worth it, either.

Her ability to mess with cards is, admittedly, very nice, but it's rather expensive in terms of AP and leaves you with less hitting power than before (3 AP for Magician's Duel as opposed to 4). If you were taking something that could reliably bring the pain, setting the opponent up for a strike like that would be golden, but I just can't see Cassie and the Duet doing that much damage.

Of course, I could be wrong here--I admit, the Avatar of Deception makes my head hurt.

[LoboStele]

Anyone planning on using Colette's Avatar?

Im not convinced she is worth using....

Pro's?...

1.Takes damage at half rate when Decoy gets hit instead of her

2.effectively 9 Action points and 3 (0) actions in a single activation amongst her and her decoys, including 3 artificial soulstones

Con's

1. Cant have Doves to protect your Coryphee Duet

2. Can't generate Soulstones

3. Cant save herself with Slow to Die

4. with 3 models on the board, gives more targets/opportunities to attack her and kill her (harder for her to avoid the enemy)

5. Can't use illusionist

6. Lose her Df trigger

7. Lose Disappearing Act

Overall, it completely changes the crew's dynamic, which although it makes the Showgirls a bit more aggressive, makes a fragile crew far less surviveable.

Still manipulative, but not in a way that suits my style of play.

Any thoughts, benefits or disadvantages I havent discussed?

Will you use her Avatar? Maybe she is one you might bring out if your Coryphee Duet dies, and you need the doves a lot less and need to make up for the loss of the Duet and its threat potential?

A couple of clarifications first....

You can only spend 6 AP total between the 3 models, not 9.

Also, you only get 1 Free Soulstone per turn, not 3.

But otherwise....yeah, you pretty much have it. The real gems are that she gains 2 more Wds, and only takes half Dg OR Wds most of the time. So the real beauty in it is that if a Decoy is attacked for 6 Dg, then the real Colette would actually only take 3 Wds, and THEN you could use that free Soulstone for Wd prevention, and maybe take nothing. Really knocks the wind out of the sails for big melee hitters against Colette.

If you've read the fluff for her Avatar in the book, I kind of see her Avatar form like that. Something to come out when things get dicey. I figure that many times I will use one of the Colettes to attack with Flourished Card and then hoping to get the trigger for Bedazzle. Then perhaps the other Colette uses some of her other card manipulation tricks. Then the last Colette can pop in and do Magician's Duel 3 times. If you can also have the Coryphee Duet nail something with the Hypnotic Movements trigger earlier in the turn, that makes it REALLY easy to kill stuff.

Avatar Colette does lose some of her crew-buffing tricks, but she becomes a monster on her own, IMO. Makes for a really nice last-ditch recovery when necessary.

I could personally see myself running a 35 point list that includes the Duet, Cassancra, 1 Perf/Mannequin pair, and then one Dove, and the attached Avatar. That still gives you 5 SS to start with, which is pretty dang solid for a Colette crew, IMO. At the 40 point level, the Avatar form is a given.

[Drake]

A couple of clarifications first....

You can only spend 6 AP total between the 3 models, not 9.

Also, you only get 1 Free Soulstone per turn, not 3.

But otherwise....yeah, you pretty much have it. The real gems are that she gains 2 more Wds, and only takes half Dg OR Wds most of the time. So the real beauty in it is that if a Decoy is attacked for 6 Dg, then the real Colette would actually only take 3 Wds, and THEN you could use that free Soulstone for Wd prevention, and maybe take nothing. Really knocks the wind out of the sails for big melee hitters against Colette.

LoboStele, Thanks for the comments, grateful if you could clarify the points about the action points and soulstones...

I thought the Decoys use the Avatar's stat card, so each decoy would have Fast as well as the Avatar (so 9 action points in total).

I was also under the impression that under the same remit, the decoys would also get the artificial soulstone to use.

If I understood the above incorrectly, then oops!

As for the wounds increase and damage reduction, my Colette takes quite a few attacks that do high damage output (6-9 damage + poison) in single hits....more often than not I find it more cost effective in soulstones t let her die and use Slow to Die to keep her alive...big hitters, esp with Flurry or Melee master, are going to be able to do enough damage, even with half rate to kill her.

That is ofcourse assuming they attack the docoys..if your unlucky enough that they hit the real Avatar, then that damage is coming at her at full amount...again, i'd sooner have Slow to Die anyday!.

couple of posters have made some valid arguements for, I for one dont foresee me using her as she still seems too vulnerable and I like my Master to buff my crew more...Colette Avater is too much of a 1 trick pony for my liking...personal preference im sure, but her dynamic is changed far too much from what lured me to her for me to want to play her in Avatar...with the exception of my big hitters dying and her being the only thing left to really dish out the hurt with...

[Wodschow]

LoboStele, Thanks for the comments, grateful if you could clarify the points about the action points and soulstones...

I thought the Decoys use the Avatar's stat card, so each decoy would have Fast as well as the Avatar (so 9 action points in total).

I was also under the impression that under the same remit, the decoys would also get the artificial soulstone to use.

If I understood the above incorrectly, then oops!

Eh well.. Her 'Shell Game' clearly states that you have 6AP to share between the three of them, and 'Ramos' Gift' that only the first stone used by either of them can be ignored.

[Drake]

Eh well.. Her 'Shell Game' clearly states that you have 6AP to share between the three of them, and 'Ramos' Gift' that only the first stone used by either of them can be ignored.

In that case, oops! Obviously didn't read it enough times!...in that case you only gain 2 APs and 2Wds plus fast, but lose the extra activation control the original version gives you with reactivate...less appealing for me to use her..

If anyone has some good experience with her id be keen to hear about it!...

[Fool]

The big downsidde to me is that she gets those 6ap for 1 turn, then you have to reveal the decoys, and then the decoys are usless. Unless I am missing something....

[Drake]

I believe you can re choose which ones are the decoys each turn. I think...don't have the book on me to check.

[LoboStele]

The big downsidde to me is that she gets those 6ap for 1 turn, then you have to reveal the decoys, and then the decoys are usless. Unless I am missing something....

Yeah, at the end of every turn, during the Closing Phase, you reveal which one was the real Colette. But then right away during the Start Phase of the next turn, you secretly note a new model as the real Colette, and the other two as Decoys. The cool thing is, you can switch them every single turn basically. So if you're opponent is all hunkered around one of them, you can select that as a Decoy before the turn starts, and then you don't have to worry quite so much about whether you lose init or not.

[Math Mathonwy]

Colette Avater is too much of a 1 trick pony for my liking...

Huh? What's that one trick, then?

[Fool]

Yeah, at the end of every turn, during the Closing Phase, you reveal which one was the real Colette. But then right away during the Start Phase of the next turn, you secretly note a new model as the real Colette, and the other two as Decoys. The cool thing is, you can switch them every single turn basically. So if you're opponent is all hunkered around one of them, you can select that as a Decoy before the turn starts, and then you don't have to worry quite so much about whether you lose init or not.

Yep I miss things re-re-reading, and thank you!

[brdparker]

AMarcus can do some fun things with his beasts.

IMHO...

Pros:

Gains a wd

Chimeric assault (for flexible damaging)

Fast

Flight

Rise of the Beasts (TWO friendlies activate after AMarc).

Instinctive Behavior (FTW!) - Obey for beasts, gives them +2 Cg, -2 Df, and +1 attack and damage flip for melee until the SCP.

Cons:

Loses Wild Heart (it's a rough trade-off)

For some reason, Stare Down is dumbed down to Dominance, which is the same thing except it's only non-masters, and only on opposed duels. Not sure the reason for the cuddle honestly. Still definitely usable though.

Favorite Combo Yet To Try

-AMarc activates, using Instinctive Behavior on s/o with lots of attacks (say... a cerberus, or better yet, a rogue necromancy once it comes out). Makes the thing charge an enemy model (at +2 charge, with a +1 flip to attack and +2 flips to damage for the charge). Don't forget that it also has +1 Cb from Mark of Instinct.

-AMarc does other stuff (whatever he wants to with his remaining 2 general AP and 2 (0)'s, and chooses Myranda and cerb/RN to activate after him. Make sure he's w/i 6" of both at the end of his activation.

-Myranda activates and uses AMarc's Instinctive Behaviour to make the cerb/RN attack again... this time at +2 flips to attack and damage and +1 Cb. So silly.

-Myranda does other stuff

-Cerb/RN wrecks people to shreds with 4 attacks, EACH with +2 flips to attack and damage, or +3 to the attack if RN uses his claws, and +1 Cb (again from Mark of Instinct). Mind you, Cerb/RN now has -4 Df from the Instinctive Behaviors, so be careful of your timing and drive the (6 ungodly) attacks home when you can.

Other Combos yet to Try

Scheme: Marcus's personal

Situation: Marcus is in a crowd of units

- Marcus starts unmanifested, and howls (1)

- Marcus manfests into AMarc (try to make it a (1) or (0) action)

- AMarc now has fast, which he uses on (1) Give into It (everyone w/i 8" makes a WP 12 or becomes a beast. All also have a -3 WP).

- (0) Dominance to make any non-master who failed Give into It get a -1 flip to all opposed duels.

- AMarc does other stuff (may have another AP and/or (0) action left to do cool stuff)

- Activate two other beasts after to clean up the scheme.

Evolutionary Confluence can be pretty nasty is AMarc starts in melee range of a bunch of small-mid-range units (with fast, can do damage and poison them, which can easily kill a large number of units with even weak damage). So much for those activations...

AMarc and the Cerb/RN can also chain Roar/True Forms to make a lot of falling back potential. Living models beware.

Yes, I realize that I have used Cerb/RN in almost all cases above. AMarc has given him somewhat of a new respect in my eyes .

[Drake]

Huh? What's that one trick, then?

Her new dynamic is control hand manipulation... but she looses all her other movement trickeries that make her and the rest of her crew a real threat in my eyes.

One of my fav manouvers is to companion her and the Duet, send the Duet hunting and leave it within 18" of her, then switch it our with her and switch her back with mannequin, leaving nothing for the opponent to attack back at....that is a great threat range and very solid tactic, but cant do anything like that anymore.

Even with her new defensive mechanic, she is still taking damage from any of the 3 models of her. Without her movement trickeries, enemies can easily pin down 1 of her..yeah you can declare another one of her as the real one, but that one will prob die, taking the health of the real Colette down and making it harder for the real one to hide....

aColette I see as being a lot easier to kill. And a lot less useful to the rest of her crew...both elements I would miss too much.

Another thought with regards bringing her out when the Duet dies....you can delay the Duet being killed by using Disappearing Act on the Duet after it has activated...combined with her slow to die, Df trigger and her movement trickeries, you can keep the Duet safe and out of harms way (and healing flip before it gets buried)...so aColette becomes even less of a need....

aRamos on the other hand is a whole different story...and aMarcus has some good tricks now! Hooray for Marcus...aRaspy is just evil in Melee with the Devour....

[Necromorph]

Honestly, after seeing Ramos and Raspy's avatars in action, I'd say that Ramos is an auto-include...always, and Raspy is rather situational. As was said earlier, there is no reason not to take Ramos' avatar, he's probably the most balanced of them. He does everything the normal Ramos does, but has most of his weaknesses corrected.

Raspy is a bit different. ARasputina is primarily melee, and most of the crews I've seen her with are primarily ranged (gunsmiths, silent ones, etc...with only SnSt being able to hit anything decently in melee). She seems great against really fast melee based crews (i.e. Kirai, dreamer, etc) who can get to you before you can shoot them, but otherwise...i'm not so sure. The ability to sacrifice any Ht2 model is pretty boss, and just the threat of that will make opponents think twice about getting close to her, even if she hasn't manifested yet...I had a full wd Shikome get eaten by this when I failed to kill her Master form...I was a sad sad Necro. As a side note, getting her into a swarm of rats wouldn't do anything...as they would just come back...and vs hamelin's avatar, you would be getting blight counters x #of rats each time. Last game I played with him I hit SnSt for 30wd with a bleeding disease after killing my rat swarm a couple times, pretty gross.

Marcus, though he doesn't seem like anything particularly amazing, would be an autoinclude, personally. Like Ramos, I don't see a reason not to take him.

Colette...well...idk, yeah it's nice for keeping her alive and getting some more actions, but losing any consistent way to generate ss seems like a big loss to me. Sure, card shenanigans seem great, but your Duet and Cassandra are going to be hurting without all those ss. Then again, I haven't seen her played in her A form yet, so we'll see.