New Showgirls Player

[Dexy]

I'm a relatively new comer to Malifaux, I've only playing for about 2 months, but have been wargaming for years. I picked up the Showgirls box out of the gate. I love the models and don't really want to start over with a new army, I'd rather learn to use Colette's crew properly. The first game I played I won, but since then I have either lost or tied every game. The guy I play, plays mostly Guild armies(Lucius, Perdita & Lady Justice) all of which seem to be able to deal and take a lot of damage. (As a side note, we are looking for other Malifaux players near Naperville, Il if anyone is interested. The Chicago Malifaux Google Group is a little far away for us to play on any type of a regular basis.)

Everywhere I look, every Colette player talks about how amazing she is, which has caused me to begin pouring over the forums trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

My 40ss list consists of:

Colette

Cassandra

2x Coryphee

1x Mechanical Dove

1x Gunsmith

1x Soulstone Miner (If I play less than 40ss I usually leave out the Miner.)

(For both the Miner & the Gunsmith I found some really sweet models, and I am 100% for playing Performers if someone can help me to figure out how to use them.)

I almost always take the scheme Sabotage.

For the first few games I played, I incorporated 2x Performers but they didn't seem to do much other than get killed in the 2nd or 3rd turn.

Here are my questions:

1. What am I missing regarding the Performers? What are they really good for? They can't really fight. And, their willpower duels aren't all that effective from my experience especially against The Ortega Crew.

2. Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like the Showgirls are entirely a Strategy and goal oriented team and then run. Their only offensive players are the Coryphee & Cassandra.

3. What is the best way to use the Mechanical Doves? Which of Colette's Spells should they be casting? Or should they act more as a soulstone for the Performers?

4. This is something that I have been kind of confused with, and I've tried both ways. Do the Showgirls work better as one massed unit, or as smaller groups ie. 1 peformer, 1 mannequin & 1 coryphee as a unit to accomplish tasks? Also, are the Coryphee better single or a Duet or does this change with every scenerio?

5. Should I be rushing out on first turn to accomplish tasks or turtle up and wait out a few turns in relative comfort before trying to accomplish my strategy/schemes?

6. The last game I played was against Lady J, and the Death Marshal's kicked my Coryphee's butt with the Pine Box spell. How do I fight back against this? (Yes, I'm sure it's better not to get in the box to begin with, but I was begin attacked on all sides and had wasted most of my hand earlier on trying to save Cassandra and Colette.)

Any help or advice anyone can provide me with would be great. Thanks in advance.

[Scurry]

1. the bonus with the performer is you get a manequin, which can companion, link to then bash colette to get her disappearing act off to move across the board. if you can get something nearby onto a negative resist by the duet, sirens call (poss use a dove to boost it instead of the negative) then expensive gift and you have a poison 4 paralyzed model.

2. they are a strategy orriented crew. colette can do alot of damage with magicians duel since very few models have a good cast and few masters keep a high cast.

3. the doves can only cast magicians duel since they dont have use soulstones. i used them to keep models alive with soulstone flips and used the duet to put their target onto a negaivt to resist flips then hit them with magicians duel.

4. this can vary except it is pointless taking 1 coryphee, it is too easy to kill for a 7ss model

5. again this varies but it is always a good thing to complete objectives quickly so that you have the models to do so (colettes crew can die quickly)

6. remeber they have a postive to resist flips, also colette gives all friendly showgirls +2 wp when they are within 4" of her. also using doves to boost the flip can help. also a colette crew is usually hit and run, use high movement/speed to get in launch an attack the get away so they have to waste actionas coming to you.

[GamerGaeth]

There's a really good trick that people often miss with the Performers:

Siren Call your enemy, making them walk towards the Performer. You want them to walk into melee range of the Performer - doing this makes them paralyzed. One they're paralyzed, the Performer has a rather nasty (1) Action called Poison Gift, which poisons a paralyzed model within 2" and gives it Poison 4. Anyone who has been on the receiving end of this knows that Poison 4 is nothing to laugh at.

The trick of this is managing to get the Siren Call off. You're playing Showgirls, so positioning yourself where you need to be isn't that hard - the trick is in the casting cost. It has a casting cost of 12 (your Performer has 5) and requires :masks. This means that you will need to flip or cheat a 7+ :masks. You can make this easier on yourself however, by use of a Mannequin.

Mannequins have a (1) spell called Tricks of the Trade, which needs a 9+ suitless to cast. You discard a soulstone (once again, you're playing with Colette, this isn't such a huge deal) or sacrifice the Mannequin and then give +:masks to a Showgirl within 3" of the Mannequin.

Now, you might be thinking to yourself: "Man, this is a really expensive combo. If I don't have a 7+ :masks, then I need to spend a 7+, a 9+, and a soulstone or a Mannequin. And the enemy can still resist it with wp, so I'll want to use a really high card to make sure they fail the resist! This just is not worth what I put into it."

And that's where you're wrong. Because with this combo, that enemy model is going to take 7 wds before it gets to spend a single action. On the next activation after it gets paralyzed and poisoned, it takes 4 wd and (due to paralysis) ends its activation right there. Next activation, it takes 3 wd before it can act. This is often enough to kill whatever model you did this to. If not, they still take 2 more damage the next activation, and then one after that. Basically, getting this combo off on someone is a death sentence for that model.

Poison 4 + Paralyzed is not to be trifled with.

Edited August 17, 2011 by GamerGaeth
Spelling, mostly.

[Dexy]

Another weird question, can a Mechanical dove cast "Now You See It," targeting itself as the Mechanical Dove within 3" to switch itself with a showgirl within 18" before being sacrificed?

[GamerGaeth]

Another weird question, can a Mechanical dove cast "Now You See It," targeting itself as the Mechanical Dove within 3" to switch itself with a showgirl within 18" before being sacrificed?

No, totems can only cast (1) spells, and Now You See It is a (0)

[JayBarlekamp]

@GamerGaeth - it has been ruled elsewhere that a paralyzed model completely skips it's activation. therefore it does not take the poison damage until it is no longer paralyzed. So the first activation after being paralyzed is skipped. on that models next activation, it takes 4 DG.

[Tuesday]

Performers are a good piece, though against an Ortega crew at least that Siren Call plot above will be quite difficult to pull off. Perdita and her crew have huge Wp, so I'd advise against trying it at least with them. With other crews, though, try it out. I only have a lot of experience playing against Ortegas and C. Hoffman, so wouldn't be able to tell you how it might go against other crews.

My main reason for taking Performers, though, has to be the Mannequin. Mild obsession aside, its spells can be really useful if difficult to pull off. Luckily, Cassandra has a higher Ca and the ability Understudy, which lets her cast spells from a nearby Showgirl. Link a Mannequin to her and let her throw up protection for herself and others. You can also link the Mannequin to Colette so she has another model to throw around the board and help pull her and others out of danger with Illusionist.

The Ortegas have a large range on most of their weapons, and some really nasty triggers/abilities (frickin' Quick Draw), so keep the 'girls behind cover as much as possible. It's inevitable they'll be out in the open once in a while, but the key with them is avoiding confrontation unless it's necessary-- and even then, have Colette standing by ready to Illusionist herself or anyone else out of danger if things go south. If fighting is necessary, use Cassandra or the Coryphee Duet (Sword Dance + Sublime Performance is beautiful).

Basically, the Showgirls are a purely objective-seeking crew. The main thing that improved my games was realizing that they're not meant to pick fights with anyone, really. Don't leave them in the same place too long, especially if they're outside cover. Picking Sabotage and Bodyguard (Colette) as schemes is usually a pretty easy way to get 4 VP, with how fast the Showgirls move and how hard to kill Colette is as long as you have the soulstones. (Never run out of soulstones. Take her out of the action for a turn and use her ability to discard cards for one if you're low.) Cassandra and the Coryphee are a great team for Sabotage, sharing Dance Partner. You can also often prevent the other team from getting their objectives, which is always nice.

The Showgirls take a bit of practice to get down, but don't give up. Once you figure them out, they are an awesome crew and fun to play.

[GamerGaeth]

@GamerGaeth - it has been ruled elsewhere that a paralyzed model completely skips it's activation. therefore it does not take the poison damage until it is no longer paralyzed. So the first activation after being paralyzed is skipped. on that models next activation, it takes 4 DG.

Ah, darn. Well, it's still a very potent combo.

[bringer of death]

I thought a dove can use soul stones but only when using magical extension so can use all of colettes (1) spells?

[GamerGaeth]

I thought a dove can use soul stones but only when using magical extension so can use all of colettes (1) spells?

They can only use soulstones to bolster the casting flip of the spell.

[Ebonstar]

I am also new and having a lot of fun with this crew...and I'm also really struggling to get the Performers to...perform.

I've used siren call to paralyze a target and drop a poison 4 on them, but it was a pretty pointless target. I've tried to line up expensive gift with them and so far haven't been able to get a clear shot at a soulstone user. With how situational all of their abilities are, I feel like the mannequin is the only reliable thing they've got, that and death defying if you need Collette to have 5 wounds...

Does anyone swear by the performer? And I mean the performer...not the mannequin...?

[Halflingspy]

I haven't played my Colette crew in two months thanks to a magnet-and-coryphee-duet-fiasco, but I haven't had the most luck with using the performers, to be honest. For once, a lot of what I was playing was my first opponent... Pandora. Willpower duels were a horrible idea as I soon learned. However, they weren't been entirely useless, with the poison 2 and clockwork derringer giving me at least a little ranged (can't wait for gunsmiths!!!).

I will say that expensive gift is hilarious to use. There's been times where just seeing the look on my friend's face as they burn soul-stones not to lose soul-stones makes me very very happy indeed. I definitely haven't mastered the performers, but they do have some nifty utility - having them sort of circle the main battlefield or an objective seems to be a good way to get their spells to bear on a poor soul.

[Mawdrigen]

@GamerGaeth - it has been ruled elsewhere that a paralyzed model completely skips it's activation. therefore it does not take the poison damage until it is no longer paralyzed. So the first activation after being paralyzed is skipped. on that models next activation, it takes 4 DG.

Do you have a thread link for this ruling specifically the bit where the paralysis means no poison damage?

Thanks

[SteamHammer]

Here you go:

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22179&highlight=paralyzed+poison

or

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20642&highlight=paralyzed+poison

Shame really as it lessens one of the few things the performer can do.

[Math Mathonwy]

Does anyone swear by the performer? And I mean the performer...not the mannequin...?

They are really cheap, though, especially considering the reactivate on death thingy as that can be worth the approx three SS that they cost (since the Mannequin should be also counted in the cost). That, and Cassandra can also cast the Siren Call - paralyzation really rocks in some cases. So yeah, I think that performers are worth their cost. Also simply because they provide more Showgirl minions which is very good news for certain strategies.

[Mawdrigen]

hmm that really does make performers much less useful..

effectively it means to get the most out of poison you need to hit them with it in the second turn...

[GamerGaeth]

Also simply because they provide more Showgirl minions which is very good news for certain strategies.

This is also another wonderful thing they do, allowing Colette much more tactical flexibility with Illusionist and other such abilities.

[Ebonstar]

They are really cheap, though, especially considering the reactivate on death thingy as that can be worth the approx three SS that they cost (since the Mannequin should be also counted in the cost). That, and Cassandra can also cast the Siren Call - paralyzation really rocks in some cases. So yeah, I think that performers are worth their cost. Also simply because they provide more Showgirl minions which is very good news for certain strategies.

These are great points! I need to always be thinking about the synergy between models. All of the kills I get in this crew are from Cassandra/Coryphee with Collette getting the killshot (for the soulstone usually), but I often end up using the performer as a placeholder for Illusionist. I should instead consider her non-damaging utility which is the mannequin, illusionist, objective-grabbing, siren call, poison/para, etc. which is really what the performer excels at- everything BUT attack damage.

Thing is, I hardly see a use for 2 Performers unless we're talking 35+ss... but maybe my attitude here would change too.

Right now I'm playing mostly 25ss scraps and taking Collette, Cassandra, Performer, 1 Coryphee (which seems like lunacy but I love the speed), and usually 1 dove to start along with 1 extra SS. The list is good in that it's fairly versatile but it's a low model count and damage output isn't great.

[Dexy]

Dang, you guys have a lot of good arguments and some food for thought.

Thank you all.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Mild obsession

Nonsense.

[Odin1981]

I think the performer is a good model for the crew but by itself I don't feel it is really stellar. However I feel the main problem might be I often expect too much from the performer due to how much cassandra and the duet both bring.

One thing though is with angelica being on the horizon of coming out I might give 2x performers a try with her and cassie in a list and leaving out the duet just to see how the "living" showgirls play together (in a tournament not so much but in the casual lists I believe it will be fun).

[Ebonstar]

I played 2 games today with the hopes of getting more out of the performers. Both games were against a Nico 35ss crew.

In Collette's crew I drew a Line in the Sand and the Performer did okay there, just arming a couple of charges and hanging back mostly while Duet/Cassandra/Collette did most of the fighting. Ended up tabling Nico's crew with the big 3. I took Johan too, who seemed wayy slow to be running with the girls.

Second game Nico wanted to go again so this time I took a performer in my Viks crew (I needed to fill points). Performer was all but pointless in this fight. I had Distract and Nico had Wagon thing. In the game the performer tried Siren Call 3x to no avail. Finally at the end of the game the performer was the only one towards midfield trying to stop/damage the wagon and fired the derringer in futility, allowing Nico to tie the game at 4VP LOL.

So what I learned:

1 Performer seems to be plenty with Collette's crew and is somewhat useful for not-fighting utility.

1 Performer on any other crew is a waste of points.

[GamerGaeth]

1 Performer on any other crew is a waste of points.

Well, there may actually be some potential for her in a Pandora crew, because of all the Wp duels she causes. But I haven't tested that, myself.

[Ebonstar]

Good point- maybe she would be worth it with a Pandora playstyle.

8 points for that just sounds kinda steep though, considering what Neverborn already have access to.

[Thechosenone]

To Irkendoom: I hope all the bad things in life happen to you, and nobody else, but you.

But other than that little bit of business i can say from extensive Guild Versus Irkendoom Showgirls experience that the problem with showgirls is that they die so easily and are too dependent on key ability/spell chains.

Even their models meant to fight (Coryphee and Cassandra) can't go toe to toe with even a moderately dangerous model like a Guild Captain let alone Ryle, Francisco ect. And they don't have willpower enough to save themselves from Obey and Pine Box.

In my opinion their strength is in running around shopping and making sandwiches... or objective grabbing and scheme completion. Whatever a busy girl fancies.

And the element of speed, while all well and good, seems to be equaled by combinations of Abruela+perdita+totem for Obey-a-thons of movement or Lucius issuing command and Lawyer eliminating the ability for showgirls to target each other.

The other issue is Eldar Syndrome. Weak single units/models are buffed beyond their regular use by ability/spell chains. But when these key elements (which are themselves rather fragile) are taken out of the game you are left with models that cost more than they rightly should and do less then they rightly should. Perdita, lucius and lady j all do fine on 0 soul stones. They even operate fine if say their Judge, Ryle or santiago are eliminated. The case can be made that all these crews can even survive the loss of their Master just fine because the individual models have redundancy (Guild captain can still chain activate and Guild Guards can raise alarm ect ect) but once Cassandra and a mannequin is eliminated things get very easy. Force Ms Dubois to use up soul stones and she gets pretty tame.

Not saying they are a bad crew, they do fine. But in my opinion, without a secondary threat to occupy the enemy Showgirls are just waiting to walk into a shooting gallery.

Edited August 20, 2011 by Thechosenone