Serigala Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 I'm sure that I'm not the only one who learned the game from another player, and although in possession of rule books has not actually digested every single rule. I was a bit late finding out about the Rule of Equivalency (which used to mean that a 30mm base can only generate one counter or card when it is killed) -as it had already been removed from the game before it had registered with me. This morning I have just learnt about Drain Souls. p. 50 in the rules manual, under General Magic Actions. (1) Drain Souls: Leaders only. Sacrifice up to three friendly models within 6"...gains one Soulstone for each model sacrificed... That could be pretty useful. I don't have many magic heavy Masters, but (2) Channel (just above on P.50) had also completely passed me by. I don't think I have ever seen anyone use it. Anyway, are there any other rules that people have missed for an excessive period (I'm hoping for a list of all the other rules that I might have been ignoring). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but those two are good ones. I try to keep Drain Souls in the back of my head, but it hasn't seemed useful yet in my games. I played a game with Sonnia this week and totally didn't even think about Channel. D'oh! I think I should print out and laminate the rules references, as it would help me remember. EDIT: On second thought, I had a thread a little bit ago where I re-read the Rules Manual closely after playing my first batch of games and came up with a bunch of stuff I'd missed on the first pass-through. See it here, hopefully it's helpful! Edited June 12, 2011 by Hansel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 The Wp penalty for Draining Souls makes it extremely situational. Against some crews, or when playing a low Wp crew, you simply don't want the punishiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 I've thought about using Drain Souls in combination with the 'Eye For an Eye' scheme, but I rarely take that scheme. And it only works if you have a lot more models than the other crew near the end of the game, which already means you pretty much won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroa Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 well, channel is usefull against lucius and zoraida Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Defensive stance is often overlooked or used incorrectly. Also, the +1 defence for each model and flipping two cards for a height 3 model when firing into melee gets missed quite often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannonFodder Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Simple vs complex duels took a while. Easiest rule of thumb is anything with a ==> is a simple duel and the acting model wins ties. Rest are complex duels where its usually forcing a duel on an opponent not on its activation and caster wins the ties. A lot of Pandoras abilities are simple duels so if fighting her you win ties.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Simple vs complex duels took a while. Easiest rule of thumb is anything with a ==> is a simple duel and the acting model wins ties. Rest are complex duels where its usually forcing a duel on an opponent not on its activation and caster wins the ties. A lot of Pandoras abilities are simple duels so if fighting her you win ties.. Eh... Sorry, but sounds like you're misunderstanding the whole concept here.. Simple duels are when only one player flips a card and attempts to beat a set value. Opposed (not complex) duels are when both players flip cards and attempt to beat the other players flipped card + stat. Draws determined by which model is the acting one.. Resist duels being the only exception here as they're essentially simple duels, but you lose ties.. Edit: All Pandoras Wp->Wp duels are opposed duels... Edited June 12, 2011 by Wodschow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannonFodder Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 No they are not... I don't have the book in front of me, but if you need to attack her she does a flip, set a difficulty, then you need to beat it. Not a complex duel. Spent 30 minutes just going over this with a pandora player, who convinced me it was easier than I thought. The rest of hers is a normal spell ability. Basically its the acting player who gets to break ties. If not sure ask in the rules section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 If you target her you must do a WP -> WP duel. This plays out exactly the same as a CB -> DF duel for a strike. Pandora doesn't get to set a total for you to beat. In the case of Pandora, since you're trying to attack through her ability, you would win ties. It may be that your Pandora playing friend has misunderstood something if he's setting a target number for you to beat. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChefsDad Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I would have thought that Pandora would win ties with her Expose Fears, as it is an opposed duel which is caused by her ability so she is, in effect, the "attacker" in the Wp duel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) ... If not sure ask in the rules section. Heh, sorry.. But I am sure.. Expose Fears is an opposed Wp->Wp duel, ties won by the attacker. Incite/Pacify are both opposed Wp->Wp duels, ties won by Pandora. If your Pandora friend plays it in a different way then he's giving himself a disadvantage.. (Edit: By having to cheat his flip before knowing whether he'd actually beat his opponent with it.) Edited June 13, 2011 by Wodschow said something weird.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroa Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) Heh, sorry.. But I am sure.. Expose Fears is an opposed Wp->Wp duel, ties won by the attacker. Incite/Pacify are both opposed Wp->Wp duels, ties won by Pandora. If your Pandora friend plays it in a different way then he's giving himself a disadvantage.. (Edit: By having to cheat his flip before knowing whether he'd actually beat his opponent with it.) well i am sure you are right expose fear is an strong version of terrifying. pandora sets the wp and you have to beat it, meaning in a tie, attacker wins, incite as an attack, so in a tie, pandoras wins. it's not that difficult, is it? edit: the above with expose fear was to make it easier to understand Edited June 16, 2011 by sephiroa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zee Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Simple Duels are where a number must be met. Opposed Duels are where 2 stats are used. In Pandora's case, a model attempting to attack her must tie or beat her total, which can be changed as is normal for an Opposed Duel. [Aka, both flip initial, loser cheats first, then the other player.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Yeah...I don't think I've ever seen drain souls used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the one tyrant Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Yeah...I don't think I've ever seen drain souls used. I have used it once in a tournament to complete eye for an eye and colettes personal scheme netting me a nice 4vp's. Lucky the game ended on that turn or the next turn i may be been screwed lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroa Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I have used it once in a tournament to complete eye for an eye and colettes personal scheme netting me a nice 4vp's. Lucky the game ended on that turn or the next turn i may be been screwed lol cheesy but naaaajzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allidor Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 There were a few intricacies of rules I was surprised to learn: -You measure the range of a spell before paying its casting cost -You can announce schemes after deployment -When something says "within 6 inches" as long as some part of the base is within 6 inches, you can place most of it beyond the 6 inch mark -The blast marker rulings! This one took awhile to get used to since most games I've played before place the blast marker centered on the model you've targeted (assuming a direct hit). In Malifaux, it's similar to the "within 6 inches" ruling. As long as a tiny part of the blast marker touches the target model's base, it counts as a full damage direct hit. In most other games having a blast marker partially cover a model would imply an indirect blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 -When something says "within 6 inches" as long as some part of the base is within 6 inches, you can place most of it beyond the 6 inch mark Wow, didn't know that. I believe you, but you got a reference for that for when people don't believe me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboStele Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Wow, didn't know that. I believe you, but you got a reference for that for when people don't believe me! It's pretty simple actually. It's the difference between 'within' vs 'completely within'. Don't have my rules manual on me at the moment, but there's a page in the first 20 pages or so that explains the difference with a diagram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 There were a few intricacies of rules I was surprised to learn: -You measure the range of a spell before paying its casting cost Hmm seems I have been selling myself short here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allidor Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 The bit about "within 6 inches" is actually explained within the first 10 pages by a nifty diagram. I don't have my book on me right now, but I believe it's on page 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allidor Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hmm seems I have been selling myself short here! According to the manual the way it resolves is you declare the spell, then check range. If you have range, you meet the casting cost. If you don't have range, the action fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) There were a few intricacies of rules I was surprised to learn: -You measure the range of a spell before paying its casting cost That is not 100% right, is it? You may avoid paying the costs which are part of the spell effect (you avoid paying them if you fail to meet CC or any other of the spell requirements too), but you have to pay AP for the cast action as soon as you find you have LoS to the target. Declare target -> check Los -> do the action (AP cost) -> measure distance -> duel (beat CC) -> other requirements (discarding SS or cards, having enough space to place or summon etc.) -> execute effects which amount to additional costs (discard cards etc.) -> [optional resist duel] -> execute effects applying to the target. If you fail at any of the stages, you end up paying everything up to this stage. Edited June 18, 2011 by Q'iq'el Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osoi Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 That is not 100% right' date=' is it? You may avoid paying the costs which are part of the spell effect (you avoid paying them if you fail to meet CC or any other of the spell requirements too), but you have to pay AP for the [b']cast action as soon as you find you have LoS to the target. Declare target -> check Los -> do the action (AP cost) -> measure distance -> duel (beat CC) -> other requirements (discarding SS or cards, having enough space to place or summon etc.) -> execute effects which amount to additional costs (discard cards etc.) -> [optional resist duel] -> execute effects applying to the target. If you fail at any of the stages, you end up paying everything up to this stage. I have to agree with you here Q'iq'el you still spend the AP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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