Inspiring Swordplay Clarification

[Fading Memory]

My friend plays Lady Justice and we have been playing with the notion that when Inspiring Swordplay is activated she receives the benefit from it as well.

Are we playing this ability correctly?

[goblyn13]

Inspiring Swordplay: When this model kills an enemy model with a Greatsword Strike, all friendly models within 10” and LoS receive +2 Cb until the Start Closing Phase.

Nope, if it affected her it would state that it includes her. So everyone except her that is within 10" and can see her receive the bonus.

[mylastnerv]

But . . . . just to point out . . . it can affect Ryle . . . and Von Schill. Just sayin.

[Wodschow]

Wait..

Shouldn't it say:

"Inspiring Swordplay: When this model kills an enemy

model with a Greatsword Strike, all other friendly models

within 10” and LoS receive +2 Cb until the Start Closing

Phase."

For Lady Justice not to be affected by it herself?

I was certain that it'd been ruled that models are always in LoS and within range x of themselves...

[MadArcanist]

But . . . . just to point out . . . it can affect Ryle . . . and Von Schill. Just sayin.

If von schil is in your crew then yea it can affect him, it doesn't specify guild only. And with Ryle its only when your targetting him with an effect does he not count as friendly. And since it doesn't target he is still friendly.

[mylastnerv]

Yep, that is why I pointed it out. Pretty awesome buffs for already awesome models.

If von schil is in your crew then yea it can affect him, it doesn't specify guild only. And with Ryle its only when your targetting him with an effect does he not count as friendly. And since it doesn't target he is still friendly.

[bigasb]

Lady J with Lucius and a guild guard force can be fun when your guild guard are using Cb8 with weapon that is a 2+flip for damage.

[Shank Seamus!]

Wait..

Shouldn't it say:

"Inspiring Swordplay: When this model kills an enemy

model with a Greatsword Strike, all other friendly models

within 10” and LoS receive +2 Cb until the Start Closing

Phase."

For Lady Justice not to be affected by it herself?

I was certain that it'd been ruled that models are always in LoS and within range x of themselves...

I would assume characters cant draw LoS to themselves, wouldnt call waving your own hand infront of your face LoS.. im not a massive rules wizard yet by any chance, but for spells to affect the caster, wouldnt they have caster as their range?

Im running a lady J crew atm, would be nice to know for sure though.. does lady j really need any more combat?

SS!

[Wodschow]

Page 15 in the manual - Line of Sight - Last bullet point:

"Models always have LoS to themselves."

[mylastnerv]

Though I do believe their is something that states models effects don't target them self unless otherwise stated. This may be limited to just spells though. Ask any Ramos player how annoying it is to have to cast Arcing Screen twice.

[Wodschow]

You're thinking of and effects which don't affect the model from whom they originate unless otherwise mentioned.

Edit:

Inspiring Swordplay is similar to a pulse, but it doesn't use the icon, so I see no reason why it shouldn't affect Lady J herself.

[mylastnerv]

Well if that is the case I've been denying myself another +2 cb. Not like she really needed it . . . but I'll gladly take one more thing some of our play group can complain about on her.

[nimtron]

Possible to get a more definitive ruling on this? I just started playing Justice and I want to get this right.

Personally it doesn't seem like it would effect her but the people here arguing otherwise make what seem to be valid arguments.

[Calmdown]

Models always have LoS to themselves and are implicitly always within range of themselves.

The only effects where this doesnt happen are pulses and auras which explicitly do NOT affect their origin as per the rulebook.

So yes - LadyJ gets her own bonus.

[Hansel]

yep yep, Lady J gets her own bonus.

To see a clarifying example, look at the Governor's Proxy. He has the Watchful Eye ability, which states: "Friendly Guild models within LoS to this model receive +2 Wp. Other friendly Guild models losing a Morale Duel while in LoS of this model are killed." (emphasis mine).

So: the Gov's Proxy gets +2 Wp, since he's a Friendly Guild model in LoS. However, if he loses a Morale Duel, he's not killed, because the ability states that it applies to other Friendly Guild models.

[mylastnerv]

Glorious . . . glorious indeed.

[nimtron]

Excellent. Thanks for the explicit clarification Hansel.

[Hansel]

you're welcome.

[Mantis840]

I really hope they make an official errata one way or the other on this ability. Although the Gov's Proxy is an example of how it could work, ( and i hate going against myself as Lady J is my main master) theres are other examples of why it wouldn't work. The one I found so far is Sonnia Criids innate Advanced Counterspell[b ability which states:

When this model or any model within 3” of it is targeted by a spell you may discard 2 Control Cards or 1 book suit Control Card to cancel the spell before the

starting casting total is generated.

This talent is very similar to Lady J's : It requires an event to happen, it is automatic, and it has no cost and is not a pulse or aura.

The way i play Lady J's right now is to not give the inspiring to herself, ( it helps in not completely $$$$$$$$ing off the opponents also lol) so if someone could show a definitive explanation or errata comes out for if, it would be great letting Lady J carve up an army with CB 9 after her first victim heh.

[dunce002917]

Hmm.. not that Lady J needs the additional +2 cb, her Sword Style Fate would easily do that and then some depending on how many rams you flip for your combat total but it would be nice for Lady J to get better cb after killing an opponent... fluff-wise its like having some killing momentum

so it seems like Inspiring Swordplay also affects Lady J... much to the pain of my enemies.

[Hateful Darkblack]

Didn't this conversation start with a Rules Marshall saying no? Like in the second or third post?

I hope an update will come to Fixes.php to make this clear. But right now, it looks pretty clear.

[GoodPhule]

Didn't this conversation start with a Rules Marshall saying no? Like in the second or third post? QUOTE]

Good point hadn'y spotted that as I was reading through - so the answer is no she can't be affected by her inspiring swordplay?

[Gruesome]

Didn't this conversation start with a Rules Marshall saying no? Like in the second or third post?

I hope an update will come to Fixes.php to make this clear. But right now, it looks pretty clear.

I saw the marshal reply, but it seems strange to me because he is discussing the wording of the ability as if it needed to directly say that she is affected otherwise she is not.

That is not my understanding of how any other "within" abilities work. (Aside from auras and pulses, obviously)

So, if we are saying that the ruling is simply that she is not affected by it because Wyrd does not want her to be affected by it then that's cool and maybe it can be errata'ed or fixed in some future printing to say something like "all OTHER models"

But, I do not believe that the current wording of that ability supports that conclusion.

[DeusInnomen]

I saw the marshal reply, but it seems strange to me because he is discussing the wording of the ability as if it needed to directly say that she is affected otherwise she is not.

That is not my understanding of how any other "within" abilities work. (Aside from auras and pulses, obviously)

I reckon the relevant entry in the FAQ is this one:

Q: Can a model target itself with an Ability?

A: Yes, unless the Ability states it targets enemy models or other friendly models.

[Gruesome]

Since that says "other friendly models" and LJ's ability says "all friendly models within 10” " it would seem to be further support that, as written, she gets the bonus.