Alp Bombs - How?

[zKoTTe]

I've heard it so many times, and i have tried to find it on the forum, but my question was never answered.

How exactly does it work?

I know it needs the Dreamer, and something about unbury them, but what are the effects since it is so powerful!?

zKoTTe/Morten

[Stern]

pretty much where I see it involves 5-6 buried alps then the dreamer uses his abilities to fly where ever he is needed and unburries them using his all his friends trigger...

So you put the alps within range of the target(s) and when they activate they need to take a wp -> 12 with a -3 flip of suffer 1+1+1+1+1 wounds (a wound from each) and get slow... then when they attack they can inflict slow so a severe damage would be 3+1+1+1+1+1 wounds, since its from many sources it ignores hard to kill and the like.

and of course if they kill you another alp is summoned... pretty harsh tactic really, blast weapons are your friends against them since they have only a few wounds each

hope this helps

[Ratty]

If i remember correctly and I don't play the dreamer and don't have the book on me, so probably don't. If you have a certain amount of alps around something it gets slow. They also have a effect that means when a model with slow activates it takes damage. As it's immediate damage not an effect it stacks, Therefore you make a whole lot of alps appear around a model that hasn't activated and when it does it falls over dead. Alps aren't amazingly tough and have to be clumped for it to work, so you can quite easily take them out if you have a model like a specialist or a punk zombie that can put out AOE damage as a reaction to dying. Or you can drop a AOE them before you activate the model that has been bombed.

[Sholto]

There are ways of defending against it, but they come with their own downsides. You can spread out, so that the Alps can only affect one model at a time, but then you let the Dreamer pick his battles and target key models to kill. If you can bait him with a model that has a clever way of getting out safely, that can be useful, as your other models can then shoot the Alps. If you brought guns, of course Baiting usually only works once before the Dreamer player learns your trick.

[karn987]

pretty much where I see it involves 5-6 buried alps then the dreamer uses his abilities to fly where ever he is needed and unburries them using his all his friends trigger...

So you put the alps within range of the target(s) and when they activate they need to take a wp -> 12 with a -3 flip of suffer 1+1+1+1+1 wounds (a wound from each) and get slow... then when they attack they can inflict slow so a severe damage would be 3+1+1+1+1+1 wounds, since its from many sources it ignores hard to kill and the like.

and of course if they kill you another alp is summoned... pretty harsh tactic really, blast weapons are your friends against them since they have only a few wounds each

hope this helps

Yup Stern pretty much laid it all out, just going to add a bit more elaboration.

It's Feed on Dreams that does the real damage, so that whenever a model gets Slow even if they have it, they suffer 1 Wd. It happens for each Alp in 3" of the model gaining slow.

Smother happens when a model activates within 4" of 1+ alp and makes them take a Wp->12 duel or gain slow. Not much right? But they get a negative flip per each alp after the first in range. So they only make 1 test no matter how many Alps are within 4", but the minuses pile up real fast.

So then there is Exhaustion which is if a non-Nightmare model takes a Wk or Strike action within 1" of an Alp, they take 1 Wd and this applies for each Alp in range. So really those 3 abilities line up to deal out the damage.

Never Wake Up gives you a new Alp if a model dies from Feed On Dreams. Most players will be smart enough to try and deny you this, I've had people shoot their own model or blow them up just so I don't get yet another alp.

So the Alp bomb as said is 4- 6 Alps that are dropped around several models putting at least 3 Alps within 3" of each model for overlaping Feed on Dreams and Smother. If possible, some try to get into 1" or b2b for Exhaustion and from there you just watch the enemy melt. Once the bomb has run it's course, a Daydream or the Dreamer sweeps in and picks them all up again.

The Alps will most likely have an activation, and during that they generally just spam their Kiss attack to deal Wds + more slow which causes the whole thing to go off again. It's mean >.>

The flaws to it is, Alps are really weak and very easy to kill if you can get an attack on them. An AE will clear the bomb out without much issue. Lastly the Dreamer really has to be the one to do the Bomb (since his spell to unbury Nightmares only does more then 1 on a trigger). Daydreams can do multiple models with Call Nightmares, but it costs you cards for each Nightmare. So generally it is the Dreamer getting up nice and close (within 6" of the farthest target).

[Murphy'sLawyer]

If you want to continue to have friends to play Malifaux with don't do it. I got my Henchman to show me how it works against my Lilith crew to see how it works and if it is as powerful as they said it was.

It is not fun to play against at all. If you spread out LCB just pops and kills the individual models easily just to be choose away and buried by the Day Dream so he can do it again the next turn.

Clump up to keep that from happening and all it is instant game over as he drops all the alps (he had 9 of them) in the middle of your army and even Lilith failed the Terror check with her starting with a -4 fate flip on the wp check the a -1 terror check with her wp being crappy due to Alps and Insidious Madness.

I don't like to call stuff broken or OP and tend to try to find ways around lists, but this list with his very systematic way to activate (He knew how and when to activate all his models) and incredible ability to get to almost anywhere he wanted was just wrong on so many levels and, hate to say this, it should be errata'ed.

Luckily he doesn't play this list unless someone asks to see it, but I can easily see it being abused in the hands of a less friendly person.

GENETICCCCCCC........ :banghead:

Edited March 17, 2011 by Murphy'sLawyer

[Dark Alleycat]

There is only two ways around the Alp bomb,and both require the dreamer player to make a mistake. So yea,playing Genetic it generally means it wont happen lol. IF and this is a big if,you can take out his daydreams when they are still on his side of the field..you can cut down on his mobility. IF you can cut down on his mobility,you can make it harder to get where he needs to be. The other option is if you have all ranged models,setting up overlapping fields of fire.

Now,for these to work...as I said...your opponent has to screw up. So,if your facing the Alp Bomb,you have to be very aware of your threat range,the location of all of his Daydreams because they are the Dreamers ability to move around the board even faster. Pay close attention to the ways you have to increase your movement. The other,rather more amusing way of doing things...is incredibly dependant on terrain. If your game board has a lot of thin walls and things such as that,you can use that to set up on,leaving it harder for him to surround your models with the alps.

[Sandwich]

I'll pipe in on this one and tell everyone how to beat the stupid Alp Bomb.

For the first turn, never leave your deployment zone, ever.

Make sure all of your dudes have LoS to each other and Ranged attacks are a bonus.

The Dreamer can move a total of 21", which is roughly half the board.

Cool.

If he's going to Alp Bomb, he's going to start with the Dreamer and MAYBE a Daydream or two.

You'll be winning this game via schemes, and you want to take Hold Out and Bodyguard, announce both.

So once he's Activated and Passed because he knows you're baiting him, use your fastest model to move up no more than 6" and then pass.

If s/he actually gets bored and decides to Alp Bomb that one unit, go do whatever you can for your Strategy, but make sure you're always in LoS from each other so that ranged attacks are possible.

It WILL be a boring game.

But he/she will learn from this game just how fun it is to play against an Alp bomb also.

[Genetic]

umm you start the game with the alps in play,,, put them and the insidious madness in defensive stance, and use there auras to mess with WP.. then use the dreamer's 0 ability to give them terrifying.. then bury them.. the bomb has now been primed....

[Tiny]

If you want to continue to have friends to play Malifaux with don't do it. I got my Henchman to show me how it works against my Lilith crew to see how it works and if it is as powerful as they said it was.

I would have thought lillith would have been the prime example of how to counter it, she has fast so wont take the wounds from slow. Then she has her (2) action to make a strike on each of the models. Goodbye alp bomb.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

umm you start the game with the alps in play,,, put them and the insidious madness in defensive stance, and use there auras to mess with WP.. then use the dreamer's 0 ability to give them terrifying.. then bury them.. the bomb has now been primed....

It Burns....... It Is Pure Evil. :crutch:

Genetic showed me this and the power is almost too much for me.(I don't need 9 Alps, I don't need 9 Alps.)

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I would have thought lillith would have been the prime example of how to counter it, she has fast so wont take the wounds from slow. Then she has her (2) action to make a strike on each of the models. Goodbye alp bomb.

She never got the Chance! She was surrounded by Alps top of round 2 and she was taking some -wp from the Alps and Insidious so she failed her terror check.

That all happens before she can do anything.(bad soulstone flip too.)

[Sandwich]

umm you start the game with the alps in play,,, put them and the insidious madness in defensive stance, and use there auras to mess with WP.. then use the dreamer's 0 ability to give them terrifying.. then bury them.. the bomb has now been primed....

Sorry, I forgot to state that correctly.

I meant that you'll probably only start with Daydreams and the Dreamer unburied, not that you would only take the Dreamer and Daydreams.

[wrabbit37]

The Alp bomb starts with everything unburied, not just the Dreamer and some Daydreams. Tool them up, then bury them on the first turn and start moving out.

[Genetic]

No im saying you start the game with the alps in play not buried... that way you can PRIME THE ALP BOMB, plus you can out-activate your opponent like a gremlin player.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

No im saying you start the game with the alps in play not buried... that way you can PRIME THE ALP BOMB, plus you can out-activate your opponent like a gremlin player.

You just learned that last part.

[Sandwich]

Wouldn't the Terrifying fade at the end of the turn, like 80% of all other effects in the game?

[nachtnebel]

Not if the Alps are burried ^^

[wrabbit37]

It would if the models were on the table at the end of the turn. But they get buried and their effects stay on them until they come back out. They're not around at the end of the turn, so the effects don't go away.

[Wodschow]

Wouldn't the Terrifying fade at the end of the turn, like 80% of all other effects in the game?

Not when you bury them before that..

Edit:

Wow lol beaten twice? We need more than one active thread in this forum, someone go draw something and add it to the puppet competition =3

[Sandwich]

Why would it persist if they were buried?

It's not like sacrifice, they don't need for it to be present, does it?

Or did something in the new manual change that?

[Pox]

played against a couple of alps and insidious madness with the dreamer once and it was painfull for my vic crew, really really painfull. At least Killjoy has an ok chance since he MUST charge at the end of the turn where he can eat an alp and get some wounds back.

[nachtnebel]

Burried models are removed from the game until they are unburried, so they are not affected by the game turn sequence and therefore their abilities do not expire. This is a rather old ruling.

[Genetic]

They ignore the phases when buried, aka the closing phase.. so any effects on them stay.... So like i said you prime the bomb then BANG... there are ways to deal with this... so heres the deal sandwich.. sure you can have a ranged army... but here lies the problem.. your shot an alp in melee, with defensive stance, with there normal ability that make them hard to hit from farther than 6"... sure you can shoot your own models and hope you hit it, bit your still shooting in melee so you have to flip to see who you hit.. it you do hit your modles with something that does blast.. ALPS ARE DEAD... but odds are on my favor with the alp bomb.. its all math and numbers and stuff... Thus is why i dont use it very often its not fun to play against if used right....

[Adran]

The bomb is a scary thing to face, but I don't think there is a single crew that can not do some things to counter/survive the bomb.

Face it, die, modify and face it again, and you'll learn what to do. Sure, the alp player will be learning to, and you'll have to play very differently against them than you would against a different foe, but there are defenses.