Who are the Three Worst Masters?

[tadaka]

Sure sign he is about right.

[ItchyDani3l]

Out of all of the masters I have seen, all of them depend on the playing style of both the controlling player AND the opponent.

I suppose the real question to be asked here is this:

Which master is it easiest to screw up with?

Here's what I think:

Kirai: This crew is a bad crew to have if it's the only resurrectionist crew you are going to take. It is extremely Rock+Paper+Scissors. (It is good against some crews, and completely horrible against others.)

Rasputina: It's very easy to think that you will do alot of damage with (0)Biting Chill or (0)Freeze Over. In all honesty, neither of these are ever useful. Whatever you do, don't try to get close enough to use these. They should be for emergencies only.

Lady Justice: It's hard to go wrong with Lady Justice. It's obvious which duels need to be cheated or not, and your goal should always be to tear stuff to shreads or simply intimidate your enemy.

Nicodem: You need lots of mindless zombies. If you do not utilize his (0) ability to raise corpse counters from the dead, then you are using him wrong. It's easy to try to take lots of high point undead models that won't give you very many corpse counters. This is not the way to go.

Dreamer/LCB: To succeed with the Dreamer, you must fully utilize his ability to change positions with LCB. If you ever end the turn with LCB on the table, then you will likely get shot up. Trust me, I've killed him before from like 1 round of from a Razorspine and from Rasputina.

EDIT: I'm not saying these masters are bad. I just commented on them because I have more experience with them.

Edited December 14, 2010 by ItchyDani3l
Clarification

[Tiny]

I disagree with some of your rasputina comments for biting chill for instance you can easily use ice mirror to get it off so you don't have to be close at all.

[Nirvanawn]

Agreed, Raputina is a really good master. Once Silent ones are out she will be even better.

[oozeboss]

I have The Dreamer, Zoraida & von Schill so far, so it has to be all three of them.

(I'm working my way along to destroying the reputations of other Masters in my own good time!)

:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell

[MunkeyKungFu]

I have The Dreamer, Zoraida & von Schill so far, so it has to be all three of them.

(I'm working my way along to destroying the reputations of other Masters in my own good time!)

:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell

BEst post I have seen in a discussion lol. This deserves to go into a sig

[Absolution Black]

I'm finding this post and also the 'best master' version very interesting as I am just starting out on my Malifaux journey. Its good to see that of the first five masters I am interested in only a couple appear on most peoples 'best' lists (Lilith & Pandora) and none seem to appear in the worst of list either (Collette, Rasputina & Seamus).

Hopefully means that I should be able to hold my own against most opponenets with my choices. Obviously it also depends on my ability to grasp the rules and strategies involved!

[Carcosannoble]

Nicodem: You need lots of mindless zombies. If you do not utilize his (0) ability to raise corpse counters from the dead, then you are using him wrong. It's easy to try to take lots of high point undead models that won't give you very many corpse counters. This is not the way to go.

Corpse counters are gud! One of the reasons I'm not going to run hanged men, as cool as the bastards are.

[Doctor Amos]

To sum up, as such threads are wont to do:

Marcus- 5

Teeth - 3

Ramos-2

Lady J, McM, and Criid - 1

Ranking systems are stupid ~ 7

[Carcosannoble]

To sum up, as such threads are wont to do:

Marcus- 5

Teeth - 3

Ramos-2

Lady J, McM, and Criid - 1

Ranking systems are stupid ~ 7

That's funny, coming from the guy who started this mess.

[deadboy]

In no particular order.

Leveticus (not bad just so tricky as to be practically bad)

Som'er Teeth

Viktorias

[Nirvanawn]

Deadboy= Levi and Vikis.

I just do not get it.

[deadboy]

Ehhhh. The Viks are the glass cannon personified. But they don't hit hard enough and their choice of models is very limited. God forbid you take them into a brawl. You lose 5 ss AND you still have the limited choice of models. And if you take them as a second master merc style not only do you lose 5 ss but you are limited to 2 other outcast mercs. Do you take ronin or something more usefull?

Leveticus is even more limited and is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (I could add way more OOOOs but you get the idea) fiddly. If you place your Waifs incorrectly or go up against a highly mobile crew that can take them out then he is easier to extinguish than a candle. He's great in some strats or vs. some masters but it's very situational.

Just my opinion.

[Ratty]

I don't get this Glass Cannon thing. The Viks have been suprisingly hard to shift in the last couple of games I've played. They still have a decent Df and Wp and you have 2 of them, both that can wipe out almost anything I throw at them if I don't kill them straight off. Not to mention the speed they can move at. I've yet to take them both out in a game. Whereas I've wiped most other masters out easily.

I do agree about Brawls, but now at least you have Von Schill, who is still not a bad choice. You get 10 SS for not taking a second master, he costs 9SS, so your only out by 3SS if you take him.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Ratty

[deadboy]

Really? I've played Lil vs them the last few times I've faced them and maybe it's just the situation but if you can separate them (like I do with transposition) they just crumple like so much papier mache. Their Df and Wds are great for a minion. But for a master it's nothing much. Especially for a melee master. The hag also has very little trouble dealing with them, in my experience.

[nilus]

Ehhhh. The Viks are the glass cannon personified. But they don't hit hard enough and their choice of models is very limited. God forbid you take them into a brawl. You lose 5 ss AND you still have the limited choice of models. And if you take them as a second master merc style not only do you lose 5 ss but you are limited to 2 other outcast mercs. Do you take ronin or something more usefull?

Actually RAW You only pay the extra 5 SS for them if you play them with another Master.

So Technically you can take them as your primary master and just get +10 stones in a brawl.

There model choice has greatly expanded with book 2 as well. Desperate Mercs and Friekorp being both really good with them.

And they hit really hard as well. You just have to plan your attack right. To many people push there Viks out to quick and they get wiped out quickly.

[Ratty]

The other thing with the Viks is you get Mercs at their normal cost. Seeing as most Mercs are worth taking even with +1SS cost a whole crew of them is quite decent.

[deadboy]

Actually RAW You only pay the extra 5 SS for them if you play them with another Master.

So Technically you can take them as your primary master and just get +10 stones in a brawl.

There model choice has greatly expanded with book 2 as well. Desperate Mercs and Friekorp being both really good with them.

And they hit really hard as well. You just have to plan your attack right. To many people push there Viks out to quick and they get wiped out quickly.

While it's true that you CAN play them as solo master in a brawl and get the 10 extra ss (usually I see those 10ss spent on Von Schill) if I play a different master I still get those 10 (plus possibly a cache if I play a non-outcast master) OR I can take the second master and not lose access to those 5 ss. There's just a lot of down side for not a lot of gain.

That all being said they aren't AWFUL. They are situationally amazing (like vs. Kirai or in a situation that requires mobility) but those situations are not as common as ones where masters such as Lil or Perdy or whatever might thrive.

[Sliver Chocobo]

To me it is these three just never work out well.

1. Marcus

2. Lady Justice

3. Ramos (Do not really have a good third)

This was the question I was going to ask next. Also, thought about asking best faction.

As a Lilith play there is only one master I fear and that is The Lady Justice

First game a peacekeeper with fast and melee expert killed my first mature and dented Lily and on the same game mature number diving attacked Lady J, she walked away unharmed the mature became mess on the floor

Second game Lady J V Lilith, Lilith attacks first misses then get hit by a red joker on for 12 damage, Lilith dies in one hit

[Xango]

Again, i only have played with a few crews with and against (ramos, zoraida, pandora, rasputina, marcus and lady j) of this 6 crews none is better or worst, zoraida and pandora have won the most, but then again is ambiguous to say, the other 4 win and loose equally, and i say ambiguous because the only master that defeated pandora in my game group is ramos, so you can never tell.

[yames]

my 3 would have to be

marcus (i havn't seen him played but on paper he just doesn't look that good)

somer (to much potential self damage)

vicks (not enuf selection that synergizes well with each other and i see them go down fast alot)

[Jonas Albrecht]

These threads bring up an interesting question.

Should Masters be brought in line with the best, or cuddled down to match the worst?

[Justin]

These threads bring up an interesting question.

Should Masters be brought in line with the best, or nerfed down to match the worst?

Neither.

If everything was equal life would be no fun.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Neither.

If everything was equal life would be no fun.

Sure, but to allow for weaker Masters and stronger Masters creates a funnel effect that will ensure that some Masters always show up at tournaments, and some never do.

[Ratty]

I would wait to see what happens when all the Book 2 models are out.. I think Marcus has already been heavily buffed with the Lawyer and Shikome, And Somer has an entire section of new models, giving him tools for most jobs.