Discussion Thread: Jack Daw, your thoughts?

[Sandwich]

I've thus far been trying to ignore Jack Daw as a viable addition to my Seamus Crew, but he's out, he's only 10 bucks, and its daunting.

I still cannot decide if the benefits outweigh his drawbacks.

Discuss?

Give me your ideas, please.

[dakrulz55]

well it depends on how much of a card advantage you wnt, because he does a good job of killing a controll hand of an opponent. pluss if you can hold onto the black joker you midigate 80% of his drawbacks. pluss your choice of master doesnt conflict with jack daw for suits so hes cool in that regards also.

[Sandwich]

Apparently only one person has an opinion.

Well, the problem is, he's crows, so there's no need for anything other than the occasional mask from Sybelle's Call Belle.

:[

[Goldstep]

Honestly, if you already use the Hanged, why not?

You aren't worried about losing a Morale Duel with all the undead and he's fun and different.

Meanwhile, you shut down opponent's hands and mess with soulstone use to boot.

In some ways I feel like the question isn't why wouldn't we use him.

It's why wouldn't you use him?

[izikial]

can levi insta kill him as he has less than 2 wounds, and as his insta kill dosnt do any damage jack can defned against it

[Sandwich]

I don't know why, but he just scares me too much.

The fact that he can turn on you and do all sorts of other mean nasty things is just not... Good.

He's a pretty steep soul stone sink and if you lose him quickly, he's gone.

I mean, I don't know.

I don't really use the Hanged, but I'd certainly have to pick them up if I did take Jack.

[Omadon]

Simply put - trapping something in Severed Ties and then hitting it with Philosophy of Uncertainty from one of Molly's totems is about the lamest thing in the universe. Furthermore - you've got alot of ways to reposition him/other models into him with Belles running around with Wk8, so - I think yes. Turns it into a game of getting someone in the aura and then just bloody killing them with a totem/shot from Seamus. Furthermore, not being able to cheat when something has an effective terrifying of 15 is horrible. He's less good against people with lots of constructs, but - still, having him as an option rocks.

[Wombats]

Off topic, but Jack Daw and his Hanged work best with Pandora.

All his useless Masks are great for her.

You are competing on Crows for her fall back trigger.

He removes bonuses to Willpower, she removes Immunities.

Its a fragile expensive crew begging to be sniped but once you are near it you are taking Morale and Willpower duels all over the place, most likely with negative twists.

I've always thought Seamus' psychological powers are under-used.

The only time I've seem someone try was with one Hanged and I killed it good and proper before it could get cranking.

[mylastnerv]

can levi insta kill him as he has less than 2 wounds, and as his insta kill dosnt do any damage jack can defned against it

Is this correct? Pretty nasty if so.

I've only played against Jack Daw once, and I think the wall of text confused the person using him so much I couldn't quite figure out what he was suppose to do for all the points he costs.

I'm sure he is amazing, but I have yet to play against anyone who can use him to where I'm worried.

I anxiously await that day.

[GTFriday13]

I've played a few games with him (under Kiari) and I think he's really pretty good. He adds some nice range, really useful for Ress. crews who seem to be lacking in that dept. His ability to force opponents to discard control cards/ss (or lose models) is really neat as well. It helps a lot when your opponent only has 1-2 control cards left and you have 4-5. The other thing I've noticed (at least with Kiari) is that his trigger suits don't really interfere with much of what she needs to do in a given turn.

I've only drawn the black joker on him once in 4-5 games, I think that the odds are worth it for his other abilities.

I think in general that his abilities are worth his cost, money, ss and discarding control cards. Remember that if your opponent really starts gunning for him, just let him die. It's a VP loss, but sometimes that's worth it to keep your own cards. I've almost always managed to kill at least one or two models per game with him, and he's certainly helped mitigate my opponent's abilities.

[nilus]

He is a tricky model but can be worth the points. If you have a card in your hand he is unkillable, but the reverse means that its another way your opponent can get you to discard cards.

I have seen him used in Levi lists where the opponent can have 9 cards in his hand and he is almost pushing ridiculous. But still balanced given his point cost and draw backs.

The only thing I don't like his ability to generate a VP for you or your opponent. In a tournament game its problematic because its an advantage not every table will have.

[dakrulz55]

it can be a drawback for some opp. who can get rid of him pretty easily, because some crews like levi and vicks who eat jack daw for breakfast. also gaki can absorb him wich can be pretty lame. also criid munches him for breakfast through drain magic also. but there are certain crews who have a hard time with him, like pandora as most of her dmg tricks are through abilities wich dont phase jack

[MrNybbles]

If you are thinking about using him you can always proxy him in a few friendly games to get a feel for him. There are always benefits and drawbacks to each model and with a cost of 10ss to hire Jack Daw he is expensive. Before adding him to a crew you should ask yourself if he is worth it for this Encounter.

Using his Severed Ties can be great if you have several ranged attackers like Copycat Killer (.50 Flinklock) and Crooked Man (Cave In) who can attack outside the AoE of Severed Ties so you can cheat fate and use Soulstones while your victim can't.

Against Casting Experts and Casting Masters you may find Jack Daw quickly killed before you can get in close.

In the end you should pick up a Jack Daw model either because he complements the other members of your crew and your play-style or because you like the model (or both).

[Seventeen]

At 10 points for Daw plus a couple of hanged to maximize his abilities, he'll compliment your army theme-wise in a large point game or totally dominate a crew character-wise in smaller SS ones.

I think thats the point with him... On top of terrain-building opportunities with a hanging tree, he adds an ominous, enigmatic, force-of-nature element to the game.

Where the addition of certain models to a crew "tweak" your tactics, Daw is designed to be a paradigm shifter of sorts making for really fun unpredictable games for the player and opponent. Having Daw in the center with a hanging tree smack dab in the middle can keep a game from becoming a big pile of models in the middle...

I like him for the fun factor and the unpredictability...

Now using him as part of your bag of tricks in a viable tourney-winning faction is another story and u have to pick your battles but nothing new here: to lower risk of him draining your hand of cards, keep him out of LOS of ranged attack weapons and have a model screen to absorb melée attacks; take advantage of terrifying with non-masters; synergies with The Hanged to knock out half the masters' wounds then go in for the kill...

[Natty]

Off topic, but Jack Daw and his Hanged work best with Pandora.

All his useless Masks are great for her.

You are competing on Crows for her fall back trigger.

Pandora doesn't need masks for anything really since she has it built into her cast already.

All Pandora wants are those crows and in a Pandora crew you will basically never use crows for anything besides the fall back trigger because it is easily the most powerful trigger in the game.

[Werecat]

I don't really use the Hanged, but I'd certainly have to pick them up if I did take Jack.

You play Seamus, and you don't use The Hanged?

Wait... what?

[Sandwich]

I'm pretty solid on just stacking Belles.

I really only play a max cap of 35 on occasion, so no room for big numbers.

I've used The Hanged in a couple games against my girlfriend, and that's about it. :[

[Nutcase168]

I ran him last night with Leveticus. I didn't use him to his full potential by far but his presence was felt.

The 6" aura of no cheating or SS is amazing. And with 9 cards in hand combined with the limited things that hurt him he was never in any real danger.

[Sandwich]

You can only have a maximum of 6 cards in your hand, unless specifically stated otherwise.

[Wodschow]

You can only have a maximum of 6 cards in your hand, unless specifically stated otherwise.

This isn't correct. There's a plenthora of abilities that allow you to draw cards. They all work, even without mentioning that they can go beyond Maximum Hand Size.

If you have MORE cards than what the MHS allow, you simply have to discard during the Draw Phase of the upcoming turn.

[Nutcase168]

Jack has arcane reservoir increasing you hand size to 7. And It's been ruled that you don't have to discard the extra 2 cards you draw with Rusty Alyce.

[Sandwich]

That sounds like a more reasonable way to do things.

We were under the impression of, and running with a, "Draw-what-it-says,-discard-to-6"

I like your idea better.

[Stryder]

Jack is a weird model, to be sure. I've used him a few times (in a Kirai crew so he only costs me 9ss), and so far I like what he's done overall, despite the fact that he betrayed me twice in one game...

Thanks to Jack, I managed to Kill Nicodem in 1 turn with just a Shikome (without single minded active, double severe damage with poison). The extra VP from killing something has saved me from a draw, and he's helped me to get out of a lot of sticky situations.

I can see him working well with an Ortega crew (pity you can't shotgun him though) as he can go forwards and use Severed Ties to prevent opponents cheating their DEF, then companion everyone to shoot while out of Jack's range.

The real key to using him seems to be timing. Not just for him, but for your other models as well. Get the things that you suspect you will have to cheat for out of the way first, then use Jack and place him wherever he'll be the biggest nuisance for your opponent.

In all honesty, you'll just have to try him out and see if he suits your own play style.

[lululu_42]

Has anyone tryed Jack Daw with a Vics crew? Does he add to the crew or does he become a hindrance?

[Ratty]

My opponents are starting to hate Jack Daw, he can really mess up your opponents defence. Especially if you can move him around out of his activation. Activating early to put him into the enemy lines to stop them cheating/using soulstones, lock down enemy models and cause terrifying tests and then later pushing or swapping him into a position so that a target model can't defend in a melee duel can be devastating. The works well with Kirai, I think Zorianda with Obey and Seamus with Lures will work well too.

He is amazingly hard to kill, and can really waste a lot of the opponents resources.