Question about stampede and Black blood

[Romain Miguet]

Hello, a question about the use of the Blood Hunter.

 

It charge.

After his push, he can use Stampede to make one point to the enemy.

Knowing that Stampede's description says it works after charging (so out of action) and black blood is reacting to damage from an action, is that Black blood can be used in reaction to stampede ?

[Adran]

Are you asking if the damage the Blood hunter takes to cause stampede will also cause Black blood damage?

Because that is a no. The damage the blood hunter suffers is from an ability, not from an action or a trigger. 

Likewise if something else stampeded into a blood hunter, the damage from Stampede won't cause black blood damage because it is from the stampede ability  not from the charge action. 

[Romain Miguet]

Thanks.

[Nagi21]

On 3/1/2021 at 8:46 AM, Adran said:

Are you asking if the damage the Blood hunter takes to cause stampede will also cause Black blood damage?

Because that is a no. The damage the blood hunter suffers is from an ability, not from an action or a trigger. 

Likewise if something else stampeded into a blood hunter, the damage from Stampede won't cause black blood damage because it is from the stampede ability  not from the charge action. 

I mean... the charge caused the stampede ability so one could argue the damage suffered is due to the charge action.  Arguably.

[Maniacal_cackle]

12 minutes ago, Nagi21 said:

I mean... the charge caused the stampede ability so one could argue the damage suffered is due to the charge action.  Arguably.

I don't think there is a clear answer under the rules, but working out what happens when "cause" can chain through multiple abilities or actions gets very messy. 

So I think the cleanest way to play it is to say it came from the ability.

[Regelridderen]

I agree. 

The target(s) suffers the damage from Stampede not from the Charge action. So it won’t trigger any Black Blood. 

[Adran]

8 hours ago, Nagi21 said:

I mean... the charge caused the stampede ability so one could argue the damage suffered is due to the charge action.  Arguably.

You can make that argument. It's the same slope that leads to the argument that I summoned the model and therefore every thing it does is a result of that summon action. 

I think it also risks leading to infinite damage possibilities with things like black blood. 

I can't point to a section of the rules that expressly say your argument is wrong, but there is nothing to say it is right either.

They errata d actions caused by triggers to add in the sort of chain which certainly suggests to me that the rules don't intend it as a default. 

[Maladroit]

Something similar was in the FAQ though (From Section 5 on page 4):

6. Blade Rush – Is damage from Blade Rush treated as damage from the Charge Action? a) No. The damage from Blade Rush is generated by the Ability as a result of taking the Action, not the Action itself.

Which leans towards damage from Stampede being treated as from an ability rather than from the action.

 

10 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I don't think there is a clear answer under the rules, but working out what happens when "cause" can chain through multiple abilities or actions gets very messy. 

So I think the cleanest way to play it is to say it came from the ability.

 

1 hour ago, Adran said:

You can make that argument. It's the same slope that leads to the argument that I summoned the model and therefore every thing it does is a result of that summon action. 

I think it also risks leading to infinite damage possibilities with things like black blood. 

I can't point to a section of the rules that expressly say your argument is wrong, but there is nothing to say it is right either.

They errata d actions caused by triggers to add in the sort of chain which certainly suggests to me that the rules don't intend it as a default. 

 

[Nagi21]

On 3/8/2021 at 5:49 AM, Maladroit said:

Something similar was in the FAQ though (From Section 5 on page 4):

6. Blade Rush – Is damage from Blade Rush treated as damage from the Charge Action? a) No. The damage from Blade Rush is generated by the Ability as a result of taking the Action, not the Action itself.

Which leans towards damage from Stampede being treated as from an ability rather than from the action.

Could always say that only applies to Blade Rush (like how some people read the clarifications of "another model" to only apply to Nekima since it's under her ability 🙄), but I'd agree lol.  I just wonder about the Obey implications.