Yore Huckleberry Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 Hi all! Below please find our Guild results from the February Vassal tournament. I'll put each game in a separate post, and then some final observations. Notes about this tournament: - There was a 15-SS cap on anything "not in keyword," including versatiles (excluding upgrades and the SS tax, though). - Because there were only 3 rounds, the players were put in two "pods" based on performance-to-date -- eg., the upper 38 played and the lower 32 (?) played. With some variables (several new players were placed in the lower bracket), this suggests that these games are likely to be closer in skill level than fully randomized games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yore Huckleberry Posted February 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 Love is a Battlefield Round 1 Hoffman 3 Take Prisoner 0 Claim Jump 1 Ulix 3 Breakthrough 0 Claim Jump 1 Recover Evidence Love is a Battlefield Round 1 Hamelin 5 Take Prisoner 2 Claim Jump 0 Lucius 4 Breakthrough 1 Claim Jump 1 Wedge Love is a Battlefield Round 1 Wong 5 Claim Jump 2 Spread Them Out 1 Hoffman 3 Claim Jump 1 Breakthrough 0 Love is a Battlefield Round 1 Misaki 7 Claim Jump 2 Spread Them Out 2 Perdita 3 Breakthrough 1 Claim Jump 0 Claim Jump Love is a Battlefield Round 1 Nellie 3 Breakthrough 1 Claim Jump 1 Zipp 3 Breakthrough 1 Claim Jump 0 Take Prisoner Love is a Battlefield Round 1 Dreamer 4 Claim Jump 1 Breakthrough 2 Hoffman 2 Claim Jump 0 Sabotage 0 Spread Them Out Love is a Battlefield Round 1 Lady Justice 7 Claim Jump 2 Sabotage 2 Nekima 3 Sabotage 1 Breakthrough 1 Breakthrough Love is a Battlefield Round 1 Nexus 5 Breakthrough 1 Spread Them Out 0 Dashel 3 Take Prisoner 1 Claim Jump 0 Sabotage Love is a Battlefield Round 1 Ophelia 5 Claim Jump 2 Sabotage 1 Hoffman 2 Claim Jump 1 Sabotage 0 Love is a Battlefield Round 1 Lady Justice 8 Claim Jump 2 Breakthrough 2 Von Schtook 2 Breakthrough 1 Claim Jump 0 Round One saw two fairly decisive wins by Lady Justice, several draws, and a breadth of losses. Recover Evidence with 3 scheme-oriented schemes on a map with some impassable areas may have impacted our faction here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yore Huckleberry Posted February 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 Love is a Battlefield Round 2 Lady Justice 5 Claim Jump 1 Let Them Bleed 1 Colette 3 Claim Jump 0 Leave Your Mark 1 Corrupted Ley Lines Love is a Battlefield Round 2 Dashel 6 Let Them Bleed 2 Catch and Release 1 Jack Daw 6 Let Them Bleed 2 Claim Jump 1 Corner Love is a Battlefield Round 2 Sonnia 5 Let Them Bleed 1 Catch and Release 0 Zoraida 3 Leave Your Mark 1 Claim Jump 0 Love is a Battlefield Round 2 Sonnia 5 Catch and Release 1 Let Them Bleed 0 Leveticus 5 Claim Jump 1 Leave Your Mark 1 Claim Jump Love is a Battlefield Round 2 Dashel 6 Leave Your Mark 1 Let Them Bleed 2 Ivan 6 Claim Jump 1 Let Them Bleed 1 Leave Your Mark Love is a Battlefield Round 2 Perdita 5 Let Them Bleed 2 Claim Jump 0 Mei Feng 4 Catch and Release 0 Leave Your Mark 1 Let Them Bleed Love is a Battlefield Round 2 Sonnia 8 Leave Your Mark 2 Claim Jump 2 Ivan 2 Claim Jump 0 Leave Your Mark 0 Catch and Release Love is a Battlefield Round 2 Kirai 4 Catch and Release 0 Leave Your Mark 1 Lady Justice 4 Let Them Bleed 1 Leave Your Mark 0 Runic Binding Love is a Battlefield Round 2 Lady Justice 3 Claim Jump 0 Let Them Bleed 1 Sandeep 5 Leave Your Mark 1 Catch and Release 1 Love is a Battlefield Round 2 Perdita 6 Claim Jump 1 Leave Your Mark 1 Pandora 3 Leave Your Mark 1 Claim Jump 0 Round Two saw strong Guild success across a variety of masters. We only took one loss as a faction, with a number of draws (this was a HIGHLY drawn matchup across the entire tournament!). Corner plus some fast units and ranged power seems to have favored us, here, with Perdita and Sonnia showing strongly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yore Huckleberry Posted February 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 Symbols of Authority Love is a Battlefield Round 3 Kirai 4 Assassinate 2 Vendetta 1 Basse 3 Assassinate 1 Hidden Martyrs 0 Flank Love is a Battlefield Round 3 Lady Justice 4 Vendetta 1 Hidden Martyrs 0 Molly 3 Leave Your Mark 1 Assassinate 0 Love is a Battlefield Round 3 Hoffman 6 Vendetta 1 Hidden Martyrs 1 Asami 3 Research Mission 0 Leave Your Mark 1 Vendetta Love is a Battlefield Round 3 Sonnia 5 Assassinate 1 Hidden Martyrs 1 Ivan 5 Assassinate 2 Vendetta 0 Assassinate Love is a Battlefield Round 3 Zipp 7 Research Mission 2 Leave Your Mark 1 Sonnia 6 Leave Your Mark 2 Hidden Martyrs 1 Research Mission Love is a Battlefield Round 3 Lady Justice 2 Vendetta 1 Hidden Martyrs 0 Lady Justice 6 Vendetta 2 Hidden Martyrs 1 Leave Your Mark Love is a Battlefield Round 3 Basse (ES) 5 Assassinate 1 Leave Your Mark 2 Sonnia 2 Vendetta 2 Leave Your Mark 0 Hidden Martyrs Love is a Battlefield Round 3 Dashel 4 Vendetta 1 Leave Your Mark 1 Kaeris 5 Assassinate 2 Leave Your Mark 1 Round Three Guild had middling performance (including one Guild Lady J mirror, where Lady J unfortunately lost, but at least Lady J won!). In spite of Assassinate in the pool, Lady Justice performed fairly well here, while Hoffman also took a win. This map included enclosed buildings and lots of severe terrain, which several players tried to accommodate through Basse or Dashel builds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yore Huckleberry Posted February 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 W D L Lady Justice 5 1 2 Hoffman 1 1 3 Dashel 0 2 2 Sonnia 2 2 2 Basse 0 0 1 Perdita 2 0 1 Lucius 0 0 1 Nellie 0 1 0 10 7 12 In simple total, we won 10 games as a faction, tied 7, and lost 12 (one game is anticipated to go unplayed within the tournament timeframe). Guild players finished fairly stratified across the field of factions. Lady Justice, Sonnia, and Perdita showed strongest in this tournament, including some decisive wins, while Hoffman and Dashel, often considered reliable generalists with some strength, showed a bit more poorly. Reviewing our total field of games, Guild often wins by slimmer margins, and there were rare occasions when a Guild master scored BOTH points on schemes, which may represent faction scheming weakness or competitive tournament denial. It would seem to be the most significant question for us to answer as a faction: how do we start putting up both scheme points? Finally: Full event results can be found here: https://public.tableau.com/profile/malifaux.world.series#!/vizhome/MalifauxWorldSeries2020-2021_16075309651830/MalifauxWorldSeries With the ability to manipulate the data to approach a number of questions! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 I'm trying to find the same data for ressers, but just see master and event tabs. Any help navigating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 I had the same thoughts. Guild has very big issues with both high scoring and denying. In the 7 tournament games I played in Vassal 2 games had a diff >1. I think it's super hard to win a big tournament with Guild because even if you win all games (which is possible) you will most likely be outrun by diff. Alot of Guild players also do VERY well after faction swapping because some schemes become super easy. I know when I played some games as OC or AR I was surprised by how easy it is to score points 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yore Huckleberry Posted February 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said: I'm trying to find the same data for ressers, but just see master and event tabs. Any help navigating? I pulled these back into an excel spreadsheet because I wanted this particular format showing matchups. You CAN go to the events tab, sort it by faction, then sort it by round, and get all of our scheme selections, which also allows you to click over and get each game. Let me talk more to the data guys ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, trikk said: I had the same thoughts. Guild has very big issues with both high scoring and denying. In the 7 tournament games I played in Vassal 2 games had a diff >1. I think it's super hard to win a big tournament with Guild because even if you win all games (which is possible) you will most likely be outrun by diff. Alot of Guild players also do VERY well after faction swapping because some schemes become super easy. I know when I played some games as OC or AR I was surprised by how easy it is to score points I main a denial master and I'm definitely feeling this! However, I think three 3-0 records will be enough to qualify for the invitational, and that will be Swiss I believe? So Guild may be well positioned for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yore Huckleberry Posted February 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said: I main a denial master and I'm definitely feeling this! However, I think three 3-0 records will be enough to qualify for the invitational, and that will be Swiss I believe? So Guild may be well positioned for that. Our most direct denial masters (Lucius and Nellie) are not showing particularly strongly. Hoffman is denial to some extent -- it's inefficient to remove his pieces, and he has some scheme eating shenanigans. It seems more like this tourney at least is showing attrition wins? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 Oh Im pretty sure Legistat will be there. I'm just saying that Guild is Malifaux Hard Mode 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, trikk said: Oh Im pretty sure Legistat will be there. I'm just saying that Guild is Malifaux Hard Mode It is what made me almost play Guild, but I didn't want to just have all my lists centre on the same handful of models xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: It is what made me almost play Guild, but I didn't want to just have all my lists centre on the same handful of models xD Real hard mode is playing it all in-keyword. Looking at the data I'm not shocked that Guild's performance was largely driven by terrain. One model with flying, no incorporeal, one keyword with unimpeded, one leap (on a master). The faction just lacks the normal ways of dealing with impassable terrain. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said: Real hard mode is playing it all in-keyword. Looking at the data I'm not shocked that Guild's performance was largely driven by terrain. One model with flying, no incorporeal, one keyword with unimpeded, one leap (on a master). The faction just lacks the normal ways of dealing with impassable terrain. March has some brutal terrain as well Though crazy big sight lines, so shooting is an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yore Huckleberry Posted March 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: March has some brutal terrain as well Though crazy big sight lines, so shooting is an option. TO: "This packet presents lots of challenges for the opposing crew." Guild: "Have we tried shooting them a lot of times?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Yore Huckleberry said: Our most direct denial masters (Lucius and Nellie) are not showing particularly strongly. Hoffman is denial to some extent -- it's inefficient to remove his pieces, and he has some scheme eating shenanigans. It seems more like this tourney at least is showing attrition wins? I'm disappointed in Lucius' showing. I need to get my reps in with him and try to turn that around... He looks so good. And not just 'cause he's a fancy dresser. I do think the schemier masters have a harder time in 3e because of the easy scoring is structured. It's much harder to dance around and score your points than it used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said: I'm disappointed in Lucius' showing. I need to get my reps in with him and try to turn that around... He looks so good. And not just 'cause he's a fancy dresser. I do think the schemier masters have a harder time in 3e because of the easy scoring is structured. It's much harder to dance around and score your points than it used to be. Especially in GG1! Back in plant explosives, turf war, and even idols, denial felt so much easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 Just now, Maniacal_cackle said: Especially in GG1! Back in plant explosives, turf war, and even idols, denial felt so much easier. I've only really gotten more games in with gg1 - I think I played one and a half games of gg0. Baseline I just can't win by scoring the schemes exclusively anymore, which is totally fine, it just gives a natural edge to crews that can slug it out over known scoring vectors for five turns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 Like seeing lj having success. I've never gotten her going that well, so it's nice to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 Just a quick look, it looks like despite losing 2 more than we won, it appears that guild had a positive diff. (+4 I think, though I'm distracted) Does that mean that is harder for our opponents to put up diff against us too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 minute ago, 4thstringer said: Just a quick look, it looks like despite losing 2 more than we won, it appears that guild had a positive diff. (+4 I think, though I'm distracted) Does that mean that is harder for our opponents to put up diff against us too? I think at these sample sizes it can be hard to say. Perhaps a few players just utterly cleaned up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 38 minutes ago, Yore Huckleberry said: TO: "This packet presents lots of challenges for the opposing crew." Guild: "Have we tried shooting them a lot of times?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 36 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: I think at these sample sizes it can be hard to say. Perhaps a few players just utterly cleaned up. Antons +8 certainly swings things a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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