Lucas McCabe (Wastrel Keyword) Discussion

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 minutes ago, HomelessOne said:

Sidir certainly likes the Fast, at least.

And likes using a bonus action to pass on the upgrade to share the love!

Still trying to figure out turn 1 chains. I think you can definitely do at least 2 passes of the upgrade, not sure how much further it can be taken...

[Maniacal_cackle]

One thing I'm unsure of is whether calypso's turn one scrap is reasonably reliable. Ideally you want one of your low cards for the turn to be a tomes in your initial hand is tricky.

You can get quite a bit of coverage with a Huckster + C&B (low tomes or moderate mask), but still not sure if that's ideal either.

I think the crew really does a lot better with two scrap, but it is still unclear to me the efficient paths to get there. Daeva is of course a strong contender, but it can't pass the upgrades once it receives them, which is a bit awkward (assuming you're making a scrap).

Halliday is perhaps the best option for just reliably producing scrap, but then the card overall isn't something I'm that excited about.

Very confusing!

[Whut]

55 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

One thing I'm unsure of is whether calypso's turn one scrap is reasonably reliable. Ideally you want one of your low cards for the turn to be a tomes in your initial hand is tricky.

You can get quite a bit of coverage with a Huckster + C&B (low tomes or moderate mask), but still not sure if that's ideal either.

I think the crew really does a lot better with two scrap, but it is still unclear to me the efficient paths to get there. Daeva is of course a strong contender, but it can't pass the upgrades once it receives them, which is a bit awkward (assuming you're making a scrap).

Halliday is perhaps the best option for just reliably producing scrap, but then the card overall isn't something I'm that excited about.

Very confusing!

Out of 6 cards in the hand and SS for 2 more, you only need 1 Tome. FlushWithCash on a minion can let you Draw 3-4 extra cards. Austera & Twigge or a HopefulProspect can help further. It's not 100% but it's much more consistent than needing a 6Mask which is what 10T McCabe relied on for nearly 2 years now, right?

If all that fails, you can flip a weak Tome on Initiative, with Luna, or with anyone else as they pass around Luna's Artifact.
Luna pass Mirror to a RoughRider, then RoughRider RideWithMe, Concentrate, and Shoot once or twice in non-corner? That can flip 2-8 cards and Draw 2.
Attacking an ally and relenting can flip 4 cards per action.

In the intricate phrasing of our great lord Plaag: "Jessie is useless"
Daeva is the best guarantee.

Why do you put so much emphasis on passing around a bunch of Fast T1? I imagine Fast is more important T2, only especially useful on RoughRiders cause they can reach targets to shoot. Most other models are happy with a Concentrate + Walk (or Shoot if they've gotten RideWM up but that means RR can't pass the Artifact)

--

I imagine if you're taking Sidir, you might as well bring along a Hopeful Prospect. They're cheap, can be RideWithMe'd, can reload his Focus when he inevitably kills with that disgusting severe damage, and their bonus action isn't important so they can hold Trinkets between turns and give Sidir Fast. Although if they die or replace, they lose the upgrade if it's still on them.

[Maniacal_cackle]

13 minutes ago, Whut said:

Out of 6 cards in the hand and SS for 2 more, you only need 1 Tome. FlushWithCash on a minion can let you Draw 3-4 extra cards. Austera & Twigge or a HopefulProspect can help further. It's not 100% but it's much more consistent than needing a 6Mask which is what 10T McCabe relied on for nearly 2 years now, right?

Yeah, Flush With Cash is looking like a pretty good option for hand smoothing (and to be honest, it is pretty easy to get it to like 80-90% likelihood already, I just want to test the limits xD)

13 minutes ago, Whut said:

Why do you put so much emphasis on passing around a bunch of Fast T1? I imagine Fast is more important T2, only especially useful on RoughRiders cause they can reach targets to shoot. Most other models are happy with a Concentrate + Walk (or Shoot if they've gotten RideWM up but that means RR can't pass the Artifact)

I could be wrong, but I've been assuming that T1 is the only turn where you can afford the setup required. For the rest of the game, I assume the chaos of battle prevents chains that are too long, and you instead do it as an opportunity thing (with luna helping out).

[Whut]

48 minutes ago, Whut said:

I imagine if you're taking Sidir, you might as well bring along a Hopeful Prospect. They're cheap, can be RideWithMe'd, can reload his Focus when he inevitably kills with that disgusting severe damage, and their bonus action isn't important so they can hold Trinkets between turns and give Sidir Fast. Although if they die or replace, they lose the upgrade if it's still on them.

The more I think about this the more I like this pipe dream.

Beebe & Calypso
RoughRider
Sidir
Hopeful Prospect
Daeva
10 SS Remaining

Turn 1
Daeva makes a scrap, concentrates for Focused+1
RR & McCabe Ride Daeva & Sidir
Pass Upgrade to Hopeful, he Walk-Walk-Concentrates and is far enough up the board to be within 4" of Sidir/Daeva
Sidir Walk-Concentrates for Focused+2 and BlowsItToHell to remove any potential cover

Turn 2
Stuff happens with McCabe & Others top of turn
Hopeful activates, walk, concentrate or shoot, passes upgrade to Sidir
Sidir is Fast, shoots 3+ times, passes upgrade to Daeva
Daeva is Fast, mimics Sidir, shoots 3+ times
Luna digs up another Upgrade, passes it to Hopeful?

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 minutes ago, Whut said:

The more I think about this the more I like this pipe dream.

Beebe & Calypso
RoughRider
Sidir
Hopeful Prospect
Daeva
10 SS Remaining

Turn 1
Daeva makes a scrap, concentrates for Focused+1
RR & McCabe Ride Daeva & Sidir
Pass Upgrade to Hopeful, he Walk-Walk-Concentrates and is far enough up the board to be within 4" of Sidir/Daeva
Sidir Walk-Concentrates for Focused+2 and BlowsItToHell to remove any potential cover

Turn 2
Stuff happens with McCabe & Others top of turn
Hopeful activates, walk, concentrate or shoot, passes upgrade to Sidir
Sidir is Fast, shoots 3+ times, passes upgrade to Daeva
Daeva is Fast, mimics Sidir, shoots 3+ times
Luna digs up another Upgrade, passes it to Hopeful?

True, storing for a strong turn two seems good! Is it just Cherri/Sidir that is worth powering up turn 2?

[Whut]

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

True, storing for a strong turn two seems good! Is it just Cherri/Sidir that is worth powering up turn 2?

Theoretically anyone is worth it, Sidir works out well because his gun is so strong and he doesn't need his bonus action so he can keep the chain going. Hucksters, HopefulProspects, and Crypsis Corps are good models with bonus actions which won't be used every turn too.

It helps to think of Artifact passing as "Bonus action: requires a 4, give an unactivated Minion/Wastrel within 6 Fast" in addition to actually transferring the Upgrade.
So if a model isn't getting a lot of value out of its bonus actions this turn (another example could be RRider/McCabe don't need to move) and doesn't need to keep the upgrade for next turn, it can instead "give" its bonus action to another model as a full action.

Artifacts will practically always stop moving when they reach Daeva, and usually on RoughRiders.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Although looking at all this, I am swinging back towards just powering up McCabe. So maybe I should just get some games in xD

A cool list would be:

• Rollins & Iggy pup
• Cherri Bomb
• Desp Laraux
• Archivist
• Rough rider with flush with cash x2.

Perhaps. Although could be good to swap Archivist + an upgrade for B&C?

Yeah, I need to assemble my models >.>

[Whut]

7 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Perhaps. Although could be good to swap Archivist + an upgrade for B&C?

Yes, 2 FWC on Rough Riders is both overkill and exposes twice as many 9 Cost RR to getting caught and killed (I don't think two Insurance Auras can proc from one death, right?). Archivist doesn't benefit the crew much either. Sure, Omens is cool but he's an additional ranged attacker who suffers from Concealment and he doesn't have good Health batteries like he does in Cadmus.

Assuming this is the super duper "load up your hand with severes" trick from before, losing Initiative Turn 2 should only worry you if you think Sidir will die in a single activation. Even if he gets engaged on, that feels like some classic over-extension by the opponent and he can be RideWithMe'd back into shooting position by McCabe or either of the RR

[Maniacal_cackle]

I'm getting very excited to play Desper LaRaux.

Don't mind me + Leap on a model has got to be one of the most potent scheme-running combinations out there. Not to mention his grappling hook is a potential ~12 inches of movement with the mask trigger! Really solid potential for Take Prisoner. Plus he ignores terrain and models while moving.

In a pinch, he can situationally hit for min 3 that ignores armor (kill a Necropunk in a single activation), can situationally steal/harvest soulstones, and can situationally draw cards.

The only thing I don't like about him is that his defenses are garbage, but when you have leap you don't really need as much defensive tech.

Desper seems like he will be a strong reason to declare Rollins/McCabe, particularly in things like Symbols.

Just another ~2 months until I have the crew on the table at my current rate of painting >.>

[Maniacal_cackle]

ALSO PICTURE THIS!!!!

One of the Ramones uses Ride With Me on Desper to carry him forward, but he falls off the vehicle.

The Ramone zooms off down the road, and so Desper uses his grappling hook to grab onto the vehicle and slingshot himself forward, leaps and somersaults through the air, and grabs the prized possession (Symbol of Authority) before disappearing into the night.

Coolest sequence ever!!!

[Maniacal_cackle]

I just noticed cryptologists can be 4-ap models (one from fast, one from obeying themselves).

Requires a relic and a high mask, but any 4-ap model is noteworthy at least.

I'm not a fan of the card, but I guess I'm going to have to at least test them.

[touchdown]

Cryptologists are the hardest hitting and most survivable wastrel minion. Which puts them in an odd spot. It's almost like they're a gap filler but you can just go ook to fill gaps like that.

[Maniacal_cackle]

17 minutes ago, touchdown said:

Cryptologists are the hardest hitting and most survivable wastrel minion. Which puts them in an odd spot. It's almost like they're a gap filler but you can just go ook to fill gaps like that.

Yeah, and is a bit weird that they have damage tracks that are so compatible with focus, but you don't want to use the focus on them if they have that upgrade. I guess it gives a variety of options!

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just thinking about McCabe in ES some more, and I'm getting Reva vibes.

A master that can be a heavy hitter or one of the best scheme runners in the faction, backed up by a crew with lots of tricks/mobility.

A crew with a rough rider or two, McCabe, and B&C basically can be wherever the heck they want.

[ElPuto]

On 2/15/2021 at 1:27 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Just thinking about McCabe in ES some more, and I'm getting Reva vibes.

A master that can be a heavy hitter or one of the best scheme runners in the faction, backed up by a crew with lots of tricks/mobility.

A crew with a rough rider or two, McCabe, and B&C basically can be wherever the heck they want.

And don't forget the extra mobility of Hucksters, Desper, Botanists. He's so cool, can't wait for Botanists to release.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just had my first game with McCabe (and declared Explorer's Society), and have some thoughts to share!

Cherri Bomb/Sidir Alchibal - seems decent enough. However, looking at 9 stones for Cherri when you could pay 9 stones for Archivist seems a bit silly. Being able to gain fast with an upgrade seems nice, but also not sure it is that game-breaking to have Sidir gain fast. The only super powerful fast turn is walk, focus, machine gun with quick reflexes trigger and do 12 blast... But that seems insanely hard to line up. Will use on the casual table, can't imagine it is optimal for competitive play in most games? Also seems bad that the model really craves focus, but the main engine for focus in the faction (Mr Ngaatoro) is a nonbo with 9 stone models.

Beebe & Calypso - Hot damn, this is a neat model. Seems terrible against incorporeal (I took him against Kirai), but other than is pretty damn sweet. Can move other models around, can self heal back up, can do loads of damage, and draws two useful cards a turn. The fact that you want to grab low tomes and if you don't use them you can fuel your Rough Riders is awesome.

Rough Riders - Great utility piece. Ride with Me is pretty neat, but being able to turn any tomes into a heal is fantastic. A 7+ tomes is a heal AND a ride with me, which is insane value. Pretty bad against Incorporeal, though xD I didn't put a mirror on one, but remembered after the game how good Mirror is on Rough Riders. The ability to hand out injured in melee seems good, but they really need to stay super far from the fight. Definitely good enough that I'll use two in casual play, and imagine at least one in a lot of competitive lists?

Desper LaRaux - I mean, I knew the model was good. Leap AND Don't Mind Me?? Stupidly awesome.  Throw in the incredible triggers (particularly on the Grappling Hook), and the ability to steal some soulstones, and it seems like any pool I'd want to take McCabe, I'd want to take Desper.

Upgrades - Tried Flush with Cash, didn't like it as much as I did with Basse. It feels like Basse can abuse a hand of three severes a lot more than McCabe can, while McCabe wants to do more incremental value shenanigans. Hidden agenda seems super good with the Mirror upgrade, so that's what I'm trying next time.

 

That's it for now! Just some basic thoughts!

[ElPuto]

7 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Just had my first game with McCabe (and declared Explorer's Society), and have some thoughts to share!

Cherri Bomb/Sidir Alchibal - seems decent enough. However, looking at 9 stones for Cherri when you could pay 9 stones for Archivist seems a bit silly. Being able to gain fast with an upgrade seems nice, but also not sure it is that game-breaking to have Sidir gain fast. The only super powerful fast turn is walk, focus, machine gun with quick reflexes trigger and do 12 blast... But that seems insanely hard to line up. Will use on the casual table, can't imagine it is optimal for competitive play in most games? Also seems bad that the model really craves focus, but the main engine for focus in the faction (Mr Ngaatoro) is a nonbo with 9 stone models.

Beebe & Calypso - Hot damn, this is a neat model. Seems terrible against incorporeal (I took him against Kirai), but other than is pretty damn sweet. Can move other models around, can self heal back up, can do loads of damage, and draws two useful cards a turn. The fact that you want to grab low tomes and if you don't use them you can fuel your Rough Riders is awesome.

Rough Riders - Great utility piece. Ride with Me is pretty neat, but being able to turn any tomes into a heal is fantastic. A 7+ tomes is a heal AND a ride with me, which is insane value. Pretty bad against Incorporeal, though xD I didn't put a mirror on one, but remembered after the game how good Mirror is on Rough Riders. The ability to hand out injured in melee seems good, but they really need to stay super far from the fight. Definitely good enough that I'll use two in casual play, and imagine at least one in a lot of competitive lists?

Desper LaRaux - I mean, I knew the model was good. Leap AND Don't Mind Me?? Stupidly awesome.  Throw in the incredible triggers (particularly on the Grappling Hook), and the ability to steal some soulstones, and it seems like any pool I'd want to take McCabe, I'd want to take Desper.

Upgrades - Tried Flush with Cash, didn't like it as much as I did with Basse. It feels like Basse can abuse a hand of three severes a lot more than McCabe can, while McCabe wants to do more incremental value shenanigans. Hidden agenda seems super good with the Mirror upgrade, so that's what I'm trying next time.

 

That's it for now! Just some basic thoughts!

What was your list? Were you against Kirai into which strategy?

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, ElPuto said:

What was your list? Were you against Kirai into which strategy?

I was on the pool for round 2 of vassal (Wedge recover evidence, leave your mark, hidden martyrs, vendetta, research mission, and something else).

My list was Cherri, Desper, Two rough riders one with FWC, Beebe and Calypso.

One thing to note about B&C is that they do cost a ton of stones. Not sure I got value out of then that game, but hopeful for other games. They definitely claim territory well, but also friendly fire is brutal to this crew xD

[Maniacal_cackle]

B&C is SO TANKY though. Even against all that vengeance damage and the threat of Ikiryo, the machine was quite resilient.

He didn't prioritise it (probably because it can be rebuilt), but I enjoyed having such a tanky model to do stuff.

In retrospect I also should have used Beebe's attack more. Handing out burning would have been a better plan than the mining tools.

[DonQOT]

Hopping back into McCabe after my Jedza binge, and am pleasantly surprised. I thought I would really hate actually playing with him in 3e MC, but the looted supplies ability is more potent to generate than I'd worried it would be and his new enforcers are pretty fun. Also Hucksters might be my favorite model in all the games. Love that snake oil sleaze.

I feel like people might be overloading marker removal with those builds they listed. Does anyone have experience in proper matches? Have any McCabe's you've seen burnt their card draw out by striping too many scrap/corpse counters off the board?

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 minutes ago, DonQOT said:

Hopping back into McCabe after my Jedza bing, and am pleasantly surprised. I thought I would really hate actually playing with him in 3e MC, but the looted supplies ability is more potent to generate than I'd worried it would be and his new enforcers are pretty fun. Also Hucksters might be my favorite model in all the games. Love that snake oil sleaze.

I feel like people might be overloading marker removal with those builds they listed. Does anyone have experience in proper matches? Have anyMcCabe's you've seen burnt their card draw out my striping too many scrap/corpse counters off the board?

In my game I kept mispositioning by a fraction of an inch, so as of yet am not sure xD

[DonQOT]

So having Swaggered down the table some more. I think McCabe is overall more effective in 10T, but I like a lot of what Explorers have. Their upgrades are aces, of course, and they've a good selection of versatiles (I particularly think I like Bellhop here), though there are no real replacements for some of what Thunders brings, I feel.

I think I overestimated how many tokens the crew needs to be effective before, you generate plenty for looting purposes and still can chow down with Botanists and the like. I think I had greedy tunnel vision with my previous concerns.

I'm still no good with them yet, but I am finally getting on Mccabes wavelength, I think.

[Maniacal_cackle]

19 minutes ago, DonQOT said:

So having Swaggered down the table some more. I think McCabe is overall more effective in 10T, but I like a lot of what Explorers have. Their upgrades are aces, of course, and they've a good selection of versatiles (I particularly think I like Bellhop here), though there are no real replacements for some of what Thunders brings, I feel.

I think I overestimated how many tokens the crew needs to be effective before, you generate plenty for looting purposes and still can chow down with Botanists and the like. I think I had greedy tunnel vision with my previous concerns.

I'm still no good with them yet, but I am finally getting on Mccabes wavelength, I think.

Have you tried Beebe and Calypso yet? I quite like them (although not against Incorporeal xD)

[DonQOT]

No. I still have a big bug up my butt about taking ook without a specific plan in mind. But B&C seem great in just about everything.  Their synergy with Wastrel seems even better than most with all your extra card draw and scrap for Calypso recursion. I definitely agree. Goodness and you could trade artifacts between them, couldn't you...disgusting, I love it (and hate it). Calypso with precise is just mean.