New player - Marcus questions

[iCreed]

Hello all, apologises if this isn’t the right place to post, let me know where I should move this to. I have a some questions that I’d appreciate help from those with experience.

I’ve been reading up on some other Marcus posts to give me ideas but have some questions.

What’s a good SS limit to learn the game? 30,40,50?

I’ll be picking up the Marcus box but don’t want to buy a bunch of boxes (ideally 2 more, I’m a slow painter so limiting purchases) I’m quite keen on a lot of models, Vogel, Blessed of December, Cojo, Sabertooth.. any help would be great.

What would be ideal for a small easy to learn group for someone who has never played before?

Thanks

[Mycellanious]

41 minutes ago, iCreed said:

Hello all, apologises if this isn’t the right place to post, let me know where I should move this to. I have a some questions that I’d appreciate help from those with experience.

I’ve been reading up on some other Marcus posts to give me ideas but have some questions.

What’s a good SS limit to learn the game? 30,40,50?

I’ll be picking up the Marcus box but don’t want to buy a bunch of boxes (ideally 2 more, I’m a slow painter so limiting purchases) I’m quite keen on a lot of models, Vogel, Blessed of December, Cojo, Sabertooth.. any help would be great.

What would be ideal for a small easy to learn group for someone who has never played before?

Thanks

If money's an issue, it may make sense to grab the M2E Marcus box. It has the old sculpts and no Order Initiates, but comes with Cojo, the Rattler, and the Cerberus. Idk what box Vogel is being packaged into for M3E, so someone else is probably better suited to answer that. 

As for learning the game, I'd recommend starting with 2 minions vs 2 minions just trying to kill each other. 

Then I'd do modified Henchman Hardcore. 20 stones, Henchman Leader, and I'd play Turf War and flip 3 random schemes as well as deployment to get used to how that works. 

Then I'd try a Master game with just one Core box vs another Core box or 1-2 games or until you feel comfortable. (If you go with the M2E box for Marcus beware that his models are expensive so you may need to knock one off or play 40ss)

Then 50ss, no holds barred bby!

[iCreed]

5 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

If money's an issue, it may make sense to grab the M2E Marcus box. It has the old sculpts and no Order Initiates, but comes with Cojo, the Rattler, and the Cerberus. Idk what box Vogel is being packaged into for M3E, so someone else is probably better suited to answer that. 

As for learning the game, I'd recommend starting with 2 minions vs 2 minions just trying to kill each other. 

Then I'd do modified Henchman Hardcore. 20 stones, Henchman Leader, and I'd play Turf War and flip 3 random schemes as well as deployment to get used to how that works. 

Then I'd try a Master game with just one Core box vs another Core box or 1-2 games or until you feel comfortable. (If you go with the M2E box for Marcus beware that his models are expensive so you may need to knock one off or play 40ss)

Then 50ss, no holds barred bby!

Thanks, money isn’t the issue, more I don’t want a massive pile of boxes to be painted, and prefer to paint the box in full before moving on.

interesting idea to learn could be good, do people ever do lower than 50 point games to learn with a master?

[Ogid]

3 minutes ago, iCreed said:

Thanks, money isn’t the issue, more I don’t want a massive pile of boxes to be painted, and prefer to paint the box in full before moving on.

interesting idea to learn could be good, do people ever do lower than 50 point games to learn with a master?

The M2E box has better models than the M3E, but you might have issues getting the other Cerberus and Rattlers in M3E and maybe Cojo will be released in a box with other models. To start playing quickly the M2E box is much better than the M3E (and there is also no info about Cerberus or Cojo in M3E), but in the long run it could end costing you more money... your call.

Yep, I also recommend starting with less than 50 SS; going directly for a full game will take like 6 hours with all the card checking, figuring out what to do plus all the rules checking. Starting with Henchman Hardcore (30SS counting the leader, only 4 models) will be much easier.

Here you can see the:

• released boxes: https://www.wyrd-games.net/m3eproductsarcanists
• upcoming models: https://www.wyrd-games.net/upcoming-releases
• you'd be probably interested in this one and this other one.

[iCreed]

2 minutes ago, Ogid said:

The M2E box has better models than the M3E, but you might have issues getting the other Cerberus and Rattlers in M3E and maybe Cojo will be released in a box with other models. To start playing quickly the M2E box is much better than the M3E (and there is also no info about Cerberus or Cojo in M3E), but in the long run it could end costing you more money... your call.

Yep, I also recommend starting with less than 50 SS; going directly for a full game will take like 6 hours with all the card checking, figuring out what to do plus all the rules checking. Starting with Henchman Hardcore (30SS counting the leader, only 4 models) will be much easier.

Here you can see the:

• released boxes: https://www.wyrd-games.net/m3eproductsarcanists
• upcoming models: https://www.wyrd-games.net/upcoming-releases
• you'd be probably interested in this one and this other one.

Thanks, yes those boxes looked interesting to me.. in terms of box I’ll probably be getting 3e Marcus as a Xmas gift so although 2e box does give some good beasts. Henchman hardcore that I hear about is this a set rule? Thought you’d still choose a master an go from there? Thanks

[Ogid]

Yep is a different game format; you can check it here (pg 11).

[iCreed]

Thanks! Are there some good go to synergies at low SS games for Marcus and the crew

[Mycellanious]

9 minutes ago, iCreed said:

Thanks! Are there some good go to synergies at low SS games for Marcus and the crew

Marcus as a master tends to prefer elite (low model count) crews anyway because the less models you have the easier it is to put upgrades on them. To get started, you should try out the Wings upgrade on a Cerberus, Armored plating on Rattler, Formidable Horns on Cojo, and Serrated Teeth and Claws on the Jackalope. Those are my go to upgrades Turn 1. Try to hit people with the Jackalope to put Adversary on them early in the turn but beware: it is only Advetsary Beast so Myranda and Marcus do not benefit from it.

This leads to my second big point: some crew abilities affect "Beasts and Chimera" while some only affect "Beasts." Knowing which is which is important for the crew. Everything else you should figure out on your own, in part cuz its fun but also because no two people play the same crew, much less the same Keyword, the same way

[iCreed]

Thanks for the info, looking at crew builder I couldn’t see the adversary on jackalope but probably a rule I’m missing as I haven’t read the rules yet but sounds interesting

[Mycellanious]

2 minutes ago, iCreed said:

Thanks for the info, looking at crew builder I couldn’t see the adversary on jackalope but probably a rule I’m missing as I haven’t read the rules yet but sounds interesting

It comes from the Serrated Teeth and Claws upgrade, so in general whoever has that upgrade wants to go early and it works well on the Jackalope because its a great piece to activate early and potentially leave in danger. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Here's an introduction series I put together for new players, you may find it useful:

Essentially it goes:

• 2 minions doing claim jump + simplified plant explosives.
• 1 henchman + 2-3 minions doing corrupted idols + assassinate or search the ruins
• 1 master + totem + henchmen + 1-3 minions doing reckoning + a few possible schemes (take prisoner, breakthrough, harness the leyline from memory)
• A slightly larger crew doing turf war + 5 of the schemes from the previous games (so you don't get overwhelmed by options).

It has worked well for our local group! And it is designed for everyone to be starting with only one core box.

[iCreed]

Thanks all really useful info!

[Nikodemus]

1 hour ago, iCreed said:

I’ll be picking up the Marcus box but don’t want to buy a bunch of boxes (ideally 2 more, I’m a slow painter so limiting purchases) I’m quite keen on a lot of models, Vogel, Blessed of December, Cojo, Sabertooth.. any help would be great.

If you can find 2e boxes, great. Otherwise, for 3e boxes:

Cojo and Sabertooth are still unavailable. Unknown how they will be packaged. As said both are in Marcus' 2e box, as well as available singly in 2e packages if you can find any. Most 3e models come in bundles so buying singles now may end up you having to buy duplicates later. That said, for Sabretooth Cerberus it isn't necessarily bad. You can field two in a crew and there's a chance (I don't know anything, no promises) Wyrd will only sell a single sculpt in 3e per box so you'll get your full compliment of two Cerberi that way.

Blessed of December comes in the "Ten Peaks" box, which has Silent Ones and Hoarcats bundled in. It's a December keyword themed box, but both Blessed and Hoarcats are beasts. I highly value Blessed, great rules. Haven't tried Hoarcats but on paper they seem more of a Rasputina model, far as rules synergies go. They're ok I'm sure, but I haven't exactly been missing them in my crews. Blessed was available in a single box in 2e, so that'd be an economical way to go if you can find one (Wyrd webstore still sells some 2e boxes for instance). Blessed was also available in a "Twisted Alternatives" box for 2e, which contains alternative models for Blessed and Izamu (TT model), bit pricier box but if you can find it and like the aesthetics, go for it.

Vogel comes in "Altered Beasts" box, which has Vogel (both forms) and Scorpius bundled in. I've only recently ordered mine, so can't speak for their performance on the table. Though I like the look of all models on paper and am rather anxious to get some games with them.

If you want to stick with 3e releases only, limiting yourself to two boxes, I'd go with Marcus Core Box + Altered Beasts. That's basically the "thematic" way to go anyway. It's not optimal, not by a longshot, but it'll get you gaming. Ideally I think you'd grab Marcus' 2e box + whatever else you like the look of.

[Adran]

Game size - this depends on who you are playing and what they are happy to do. If you just turn up to an established group, they are most likely to be playing 50 ss games because that's the normal size. Its probably less daunting to learn at a smaller size because you have less to keep in mind at any one point.  On the whole it is easier to learn if you have fewer profiles to learn, so using multiples of the same model is a good idea. It also gives you a bit of redundancy, and a good chance to actually see how 1 stat line does in a wide range of situations, which will be helpful later on.

Henchmen hardcore is an option as a way to learn, but I certainly used to find it was a little to combat focused to give a good guide to what actually matters in many malifaux games, but I've not tried it in M3 yet, and its not just a kill everything  game anymore, so that is better. It does have to downside of disallowing the character that most people pick to play (the master), so won't appeal to all as a way to learn.

Good luck with learning.

[Stumpyfjord]

The plant explosives portion of henchman hardcore balances the “kill things” portion of the format. Scoring turn 1 also reduces the amount of time(I.e AP) you have for killing.

I’ve been impressed by how fun and good it is for getting a feel for crews.

Specifically with Myranda and Initiates if you go 3E box, it gives you a way to mess with Upgrades for low AP cost.

[iCreed]

Sounds like something I will have to try as I’ll be getting the 3e box for Xmas. Biggest challenge will be finding a good local scene that can help teach me!