Bayou Zoraida

[Mxbedlam]

So the Swamp witch has a lot going on and a bunch of people feel like she's OP and not fun to play against atm, but GG season 0 might have fixed that just a little bit. How are you playing Swampfiends and what are you bringing from the Neverborn side of the keyword into your lists?

I almost always bring a Will O Wisp with me and Grootslangs are pretty strong as well. Bad Juju is a very strong with Zoraida even though his crazy low Df can really make him a target. 

[Kiryn]

I like the adze, very fast, decent damage with poison and or burning. Ability to easily heal in combat too. 

I've found that opponents go after juju hard. Mostly he's just stayed up but does need healing from bokor. That low defence is just savage. 

I feel like you need at least one other solid beater/tank to take some pressure off juju. I've taken the emissary to reasonable effect. Mech pork could work too as opponent is unlikely to bring anti armour against zoraida. 

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

Because of the awesomeness that is the first mate I often find myself leaving bad juju behind unless I need a tar pit or I'm playing in severe terrain maps.

Since Zs keyword splits the factions its hard to think of it as neverborn or bayou since I usually choose from both.  Where it really matters is the upgrades and ook models. Here, in bayou I like ten cups of coffee to get a swamp minion easy into position for Z to node from or to scheme easy. Great on silurids.  I loved two gremlins for bayou gators because a gator with a gun was hilarious to me.  

Duel master, you can get zipp for more annoyance and piano mayhem

Ook, I don't use many but iron skeeters give concealment and can carry smaller models

[Mxbedlam]

1 hour ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

Because of the awesomeness that is the first mate I often find myself leaving bad juju behind unless I need a tar pit or I'm playing in severe terrain maps.

Since Zs keyword splits the factions its hard to think of it as neverborn or bayou since I usually choose from both.  Where it really matters is the upgrades and ook models. Here, in bayou I like ten cups of coffee to get a swamp minion easy into position for Z to node from or to scheme easy. Great on silurids.  I loved two gremlins for bayou gators because a gator with a gun was hilarious to me.  

Duel master, you can get zipp for more annoyance and piano mayhem

Ook, I don't use many but iron skeeters give concealment and can carry smaller models

I bring Gracie to help tow Z up and be a body guard as well

[Math Mathonwy]

What is people's opinion on Spawn Mother?

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

I've yet to put her on the table because of the relative superiority of the first mate or the hearty presence of BJJ, but she is more impressive as a model than her M2E self. Stealth is a nice advantage that silurids get now, so she isn't as easy a target as before, and her mother's rage has a better chance of being used with it being able to work in engagement. Plus, it can be used even if you can't end close enough to get the attack action off, just needing to end as close as possible to the enemy model.  Her melee attack is pretty strong with good triggers. Hatching this edition is a little more work than the simple wisp eggs of M2E, but a 4 + 6 ram/ss isn't that hard to get.  Needing both for the trigger can be a bit taxing, so I imagine it will be used only once a game if that. 

I have plans for a silurid swamp list that seems fun into some pools. I think I'd probably wait and pop 2-3 on T2 or T3 (just looked at gupps and saw mindless, so they can't activate on summon), using my AP for movement and positioning of eggs on T1 and T2.  That way I don't give up a bunch of pass tokens when my gupps aren't doing much but fodder. Suddenly getting 3 more models down could be a big swing from looking like a brawling threat, to suddenly having schemers to leap about.  8wds and only stealth or soulstones to defend is pretty rough so she definitely needs to think hard about charging in and how much good it will do her.  This is my biggest concern really.  She hits pretty nicely but if she doesn't get her gupps to be useful (I guess that is why the demise trigger) then she's a bit of a risk for 8ss.

One last thing that will definitely need board testing to determine is egg destruction for heals.  Its 1 action for +2 health, but an action is pretty important and you need to be within 1" of the marker.  I kinda wish friendlies could just walk over them and choose if they want to eat them on the way but perhaps that +2 and loss of the egg is good enough. Time will tell.

[Kiryn]

What's the opinion on juju into ressers with the potential of manos and the anti demise. Without his demise juju really is weak. 

Potentially got a molly game in to corrupted. Thinking about swapping juju for whiskey golem. No regen on golem but armour two is solid. Might be able to squeeze both in but it's likely the first mate who will lose out. Guess golem would need inferiority too. 

[soda_popinski]

13 hours ago, Kiryn said:

What's the opinion on juju into ressers with the potential of manos and the anti demise. Without his demise juju really is weak. 

Potentially got a molly game in to corrupted. Thinking about swapping juju for whiskey golem. No regen on golem but armour two is solid. Might be able to squeeze both in but it's likely the first mate who will lose out. Guess golem would need inferiority too. 

Wouldn't use any demise abilities against ressers. Theres also Datsue Ba.

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

Id never bring Juju into anything I suspected of anti-demise now, Df3 with 9 wounds is so low that he'll go down to a group of the smallest hits or a fast, min 3 dmg model. HtW won't help it at all.

[Scoffer]

I'm trying to think out of the "all-silurid" box and find a way to put my fluffy Juju on the table.

I think something like this would work well in killy matchups.

 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

On 11/14/2019 at 6:37 AM, Kiryn said:

What's the opinion on juju into ressers with the potential of manos and the anti demise. Without his demise juju really is weak. 

Potentially got a molly game in to corrupted. Thinking about swapping juju for whiskey golem. No regen on golem but armour two is solid. Might be able to squeeze both in but it's likely the first mate who will lose out. Guess golem would need inferiority too. 

Relying on armour against Molly can be disastrous. She can do 3 irreducible damage a shot once she gets your hand down, so can blow through armoured targets pretty fast (unless you stack your whole team with armour).

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

@Scoffer I don't know about Francois this edition so can't comment on him.  Gators are good and killy and I would definitely look towards them if I thought my opponent had terrifying or manipulative models on the field. I really enjoy the wisp for adding conditions via doll to enemies, so I might swap a gator for that and gain a stone, or add one of the upgrades to a model. Twelve cups or Ghillie suit would both be fun.

[Scoffer]

50 minutes ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

@Scoffer I don't know about Francois this edition so can't comment on him.  Gators are good and killy and I would definitely look towards them if I thought my opponent had terrifying or manipulative models on the field. I really enjoy the wisp for adding conditions via doll to enemies, so I might swap a gator for that and gain a stone, or add one of the upgrades to a model. Twelve cups or Ghillie suit would both be fun.

I prefer to keep Zoraida deep in backline, so don't have much opportunities to use the Doll. Tryed Wisp several times and it usualy died early turn 2.

Francois is super-good this edition. He is tanky and can do a lot of damage. 

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

Fair enough, I've been in a similar position with her not getting close enough to use the doll.  I still think you'll need to move her up with that list, because you're a low on activations so she and the bokor will need to make sure models are in range to do what they need to do.  You could drop the first mate for a Silurid and give Juju inhuman reflexes if you played this same list as neverborn. You'd be at 7ss and only need to use them for two models instead of three while still having a good schemer and a better Juju.  It is hard to give up the first mate though.  Another option would be to take the spawn mother instead of the first mate. That would give you some summoning if you needed more scheming since your gators are supposed to be snacking on enemies over placing markers or holding areas.  Get some gupps to push an idol or run for breakthrough.  Additionally, eggs are a nice bonus heal if really needed.

[Scoffer]

11 minutes ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

Fair enough, I've been in a similar position with her not getting close enough to use the doll.  I still think you'll need to move her up with that list, because you're a low on activations so she and the bokor will need to make sure models are in range to do what they need to do.  You could drop the first mate for a Silurid and give Juju inhuman reflexes if you played this same list as neverborn. You'd be at 7ss and only need to use them for two models instead of three while still having a good schemer and a better Juju.  It is hard to give up the first mate though.  Another option would be to take the spawn mother instead of the first mate. That would give you some summoning if you needed more scheming since your gators are supposed to be snacking on enemies over placing markers or holding areas.  Get some gupps to push an idol or run for breakthrough.  Additionally, eggs are a nice bonus heal if really needed.

If I need more scheeming, a can replace both Gators with Silurids and keep 4 stones in cash. I'm going to try it this evening and bring a small report here. Can't get rid of Silurids  Looks like some kind of addiction.

[Jivetyrant]

One thing I noticed while looking through her keyword is the abundance of 2" melee range.  On a severe terrain dense map it seems she could really shine with Juju, Grootslang, Wisps and Waldgeists.  I haven't played her yet, only theorycrafted.  I know that my opponents get really frustrated by all the 2" engage ranges in Brewmaster.

[Scoffer]

Played Zoraida vs. Lucius (neverborn) on monday. Corner deployment, Corrupted Idols. Dig their Graves, Detonate Charges, Vendetta, Hold Up Their Forces, Take prisoner.

My list: Zoraida, Juju, Francois, First Mate, Bokor, 2 Silurids, 4ss. Schemes: Detonate Charges, Take Prisoner (Serena)

Opponent's list: Lucius, Scribe, Agent 46 (Inhuman reflexes), Serena Bowman, 2 Lawyers (one with Pact), 3 Changelings, 5ss. Schemes: Vendetta (Agent->Francois), Hold Up Their Forces.

We both made critical mistakes with scheme choices: my opponent missed that Changeling have no engagement range and are useless for Hold Up, and I shouldn't have picked Detonate Charges because it is very hard to score in general and even harder against Lucius as he has a lot of options to move activated models. So the game didn't follow our plans from the very beginning. 4 Idols were dropped at the centerpoint, only one was dropped on my right flank turn two.

The table had several 50mm spots of Concealing bushes, a big Dense/Severe/Concealing forest in the middle, and a couple of HT4 Blocking buildings on the centerline. I could draw LoS from Zoraida to most areas of the table, but couldn't get straight flips for her actions without Eyes In the Night most of time.

I lost 3:5. Managed to score 2 for Strat and 1 for Prisoner. My opponent scored 3 for Strat and 1 point for each of his schemes. 

I wanted to tarpit as many enemy models as possible with Juju and see if it is tanky enough to survive while Francois is doing the killing job. It is not. Focused assault of Serena, Agent and Lucius removed Juju from the table quickly, it could happen even quicker, but I used 3 stones for damage reduction and my opponent had a BJ on one of damage flips. 

Francois did his job well - he didn't die and killed the Agent. I love that little guy!

The rest of the crew worked as usual, nothing to disquss.

 

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

Ya, Juju can't really take the beating you think he should be able to handle.  Into a WP crew like pandora or dreamer he has a better chance, but Df3 gets him cut to ribbons.  I wish he had terrifying to at least make it be a slight challenge or waste some cards.  Regen +2 (+3) is great, but only if he gets to activate or can survive a turn. With M3E I feel like beater flankers might start being more of a thing, but I'm not sure who will tank for Zoraida otherwise...