Forgotten Composition

[Aemaru]

Hi !

 

I'm a beginner and was thinking at a compo like :

 

Molly

Necrotic machine

Seamus

Archie

Philip and the nanny

Rable Riser x2

 

What do you think about this ?

 

Thanks

[Maniacal_cackle]

The crew looks okay (although I'm not sure about Seamus), but in Malifaux you find out the strategies and schemes before every game. As such, you usually want to customise your list to the scenario every time.

[Aemaru]

Wow you're fast to respond

 

The question was about integrating seamus in the crew to get some punch to the composition ..

[Maniacal_cackle]

@Aemaru, he certainly packs a wallop! Although pay attention to the terrain on the board before you hire him. He needs a lot of blocking terrain to abuse his movement shenanigans.

You may also find the crew a bit limiting in scheme marker heavy pools. You should pick up some crooligans or night terrors.

[Aemaru]

ok i don't own them yet but i'll plan to purchase them

Better crooligans or night terrors first ? I would say crooligan but not sure ...

[Maniacal_cackle]

I only own crooligans. Night terrors are great if you need access to concealment, but for me personally crooligans have been amazing.

[thewrathchilde]

If this is all conceptual and pre-purchase then I would say go with something else instead of Seamus.

Look at her other keyword choices (Rogue Necromancy) and versatile options (Emissary/Rider) that will give you solid beaters but also things that will work well in a variety of situations and other crews. 
 

There are multiple crews I will field the Rogue, Rider, or Emissary in and they work well in a variety of circumstances. Additionally if you go the Rogue route then you are well on your way towards a Doc McMourning crew next and he can make a great second Master with Molly. 

I am not a fan of Seamus as a second master as he is 25% less effective than when he is the leader as Cause for Celebration can only be used when he is the crew leader. 

[Graf]

I'm fresh at the game as well, so take the appropiate bunch of salt.

I like the Molly/Seamus team for thematic reasons alone. Certain Master combination are really powerful, but an important variable to consider are the abilities each Master has, that only works if they are the crew's leader. Seamus is great at dealing damage, but without "A Cause for Celebration" you dimish this very reason to include him in your crew.

Molly's "Lethe's Caress" seems much less... important for Molly. You still gett all her debuffs, card draw and and extra activations. So if I would take both, then Seamus as the leader and Molly as 2nd master. At least in theory, someone with practical experience should concur or correct me ^^".

For you, it seems, the issue with that is the availability of the models. Seamus doesn't need many of his keyword models, but if you want to play many Forgotten models, it doesn't make much sense to pay extra just to include Seamus as leader. In that case I would either play Molly without him or simply test the set up like you proposed, but wouldn't expect to much.

[Thedeadclaw]

45 minutes ago, Graf said:

I'm fresh at the game as well, so take the appropiate bunch of salt.

I like the Molly/Seamus team for thematic reasons alone. Certain Master combination are really powerful, but an important variable to consider are the abilities each Master has, that only works if they are the crew's leader. Seamus is great at dealing damage, but without "A Cause for Celebration" you dimish this very reason to include him in your crew.

Molly's "Lethe's Caress" seems much less... important for Molly. You still gett all her debuffs, card draw and and extra activations. So if I would take both, then Seamus as the leader and Molly as 2nd master. At least in theory, someone with practical experience should concur or correct me ^^".

For you, it seems, the issue with that is the availability of the models. Seamus doesn't need many of his keyword models, but if you want to play many Forgotten models, it doesn't make much sense to pay extra just to include Seamus as leader. In that case I would either play Molly without him or simply test the set up like you proposed, but wouldn't expect to much.

Lethe's caress is much better than A Cause for Celebration because it adds a heavy control element that Molly really needs. Dealing 4/6/8 once per turn is still pretty good imo and worth taking Seamus. I usually move, focus, shoot tbh? But Molly controls movement with her Lethe's Caress, she bites back against multiple attacks, she makes certain engines significantly worse. It's a defensive ability that helps you pin down important models.

Also, if I'm taking a crew with Molly I know that I want access to at cost Forgotten. (Ofc Archie, but I also really want cheap access to Crooligans and Night Terrors.)

Just my opinion though, I've only gotten in a few games with Ressers post Beta but I played Molly and Dreamer the most during the Beta and that's what I liked.

[Aemaru]

Thanks for all the answers !

I bought Miss feasance cause i like the mini but it might not make it with molly.. I didn't catch the free action limitation...

 

Are Rabble risers  worth it ?

And Does Manos is interesting for a Molly composition ?

I'm so noob at this game

I think I'm going to face LAdy Justice any advices on how to play molly ?

 

[Clement]

2 hours ago, Aemaru said:

Thanks for all the answers !

I bought Miss feasance cause i like the mini but it might not make it with molly.. I didn't catch the free action limitation...

 

Are Rabble risers  worth it ?

And Does Manos is interesting for a Molly composition ?

I'm so noob at this game

I think I'm going to face LAdy Justice any advices on how to play molly ?

 

Rabble Risers really depend on what schemes/strats you're dealing with.  If you have to hold a zone and do some fighting, they'll work well for you.  They don't "scheme" very well, since they're kind of slow (at least compared to Molly's other minion options).  As someone just starting out, they'll be OK.

Manos is fun to have around not because of what he brings to Molly, but what he brings to Archie.  If Manos dies and Archie gets his reliquary, your opponent can pretty much forget killing Archie for the rest of the game.

Molly can be a bit tricky to field for maximum effect, especially in the face of Lady Justice who is REALLY straight forward.  The good news is that Lethe's caress will slow down Lady Justice's murder spree (it will not stop it though).  I'd suggest a podcast on Molly to get some basics.    The one linked below goes VERY deep into his VERY specific crew composition, which is kind of beyond where you look to be right now, but tactically it offers a lot of help.

 

 

[Aemaru]

I heard it but in term of composition the guy rely heavily on elite troop like rogue necro and emissary ... but i don’t own them yet ... neither for crooligan..

 As english is not my native langage i might have lost some details throught the process ....

I ve got in stock : 

manos / mourners

reva crew /draugh /lampad etc

Molly crew box 

Alt seamus

 

I then can proxi some guys maybe death rider or rogue necro but against lady j ... 

 

New Molly Squidpiddge Crew (Resurrectionist)
Size: 50 - Pool: 5
Leader:
  Molly Squidpiddge
    Grave Spirit's Touch
Totem(s):
  Necrotic Machine
Hires:
  Archie
    Killer Instinct
  Rogue Necromancy
  Carrion Emissary
  Crooligan
  Rabble Riser
    Grave Spirit's Touch
References:
  Mindless Zombie
  Walking Dead

 

something like this ?

 

[marke83]

IME Lethe's Caress is certainly not better than Cause. Lethe gives control and choice to your opponent, Cause keeps it on you. Lethe's has been more of a nuisance than anything else, but 4th ap on a master is borderline insane.

---

@Aemaru your crew looks playable. Try it? Molly is good anyway. Maybe Manos instead of Emissary for most pools if you own him? I think you want good schemers if you lack Crooligans (and that brings another "benefit" of not needing Forgotten keyword for teleport ;D

[Maniacal_cackle]

If you're new, I highly recommend just buying Molly's core box and playing smaller games initially (she comes with about 20 stones of models in her Take Back the Night box, so you can play 20-30ss games with just that). Once you have a feel for her playstyle, you'll be better able to know what you want to buy next.

The game has a huge learning curve, so playing smaller games will be fine for a while. If you try to play 50 stones right away, you may end up with 4+ hour games.

Worth noting her core box may change with the move to 3rd edition. If that happens, you may have some awkward future purchases regarding minions, but it'll probably be okay.

For some further advice, since you asked about rabble risers: I personally almost never leave home without one, but some people don't use them as much as I do. In my opinion, you absolutely need to be using Molly's constructive criticism twice sometimes (to gain extra activations to delay your final activation). It is a bit dealer's choice whether to use night terrors or rabble risers for this. Crooligans can do it too, but IMO are much worse for doing it (they don't gain much by the second activation unless very specific circumstances arise).

Rabble risers are getting new models this edition, so it is up to you a bit whether you prefer 2nd edition sculpts or third. Both are legal.

[Aemaru]

The guy chose Dashel which with all the focus etc was really hard to play against.. call in reinforcement with minions costing 9 or 8 all guys getting focus bypassing my defensive abilities. 

His compo was 

dashel

dispatcher

executioner

riffleman

pale rider

death marshall recruiter

guild steward

guild hound

 

The terrain was really open and i played a really non opti compo like 

molly/archie/nani/2x rabble/ 3x crooligans 

i missed some opportunities and some game mecanics which would have helped me (i forgot to reduce damage on molly with soulstones for example...) but i feel my compo was really the problem as I tried to play the core box...

any thoughts about what i should hace played ? 

I think forgotten marshal might have been a good choice and maybe asura (to summon and realise some objectives) rogue necro or maybe manos ?

 

another question : when molly or nani inflict 2 damages with an ability does these damages are reduced by ennemy armor ?

[Maniacal_cackle]

@Aemaru, what was the scheme/strats?

And yes the damage gets reduced, but not below one.

 

[Aemaru]

It was plant explosive and i miss choose breakthrough and hold them

There was detonate, harness the ley line, deliver a message

 

two things i noticed : unbalance between shoot and closecombat crew on open field and invocations are really powerfull with minions costing 9 or 8 ss ^^

[Maniacal_cackle]

@Aemaru, some thoughts. Let me know if anything is not clear.

First off, it sounds like your opponent has access to a stronger crew than you do. So don't feel bad if you're struggling a bit. That said, skill is the biggest factor in Malifaux by far, so you definitely can learn to beat your opponent!

Terrain: the game is balanced around terrain. Get some more terrain on the board (1/3 of the board should be terrain). If you've not got stuff to hide behind, a shooting crew is going to tear you apart.

I'm not familiar with Dashel and his crew, but I'll try to give some insights anyway.

Crew composition: Manos is apparently quite strong (I don't own him). It may have been correct to include him. Night terrors would be fantastic against Dashel (they grant concealment, giving enemies another minus to their attacks) if you had them. That said, even with the core box I've been able to field a very strong crew on plant explosives.

Last activation: with Molly, you can always ensure you get the last activation (at least for the first turn). By reactivating minions with Molly, you can buy yourself time. This allows you to move Archie and Philip and the Nanny after your opponent is finished activating. This is useful because it means that you can send them somewhere safe. Overall, I'd play a game of cat and mouse - run around the board hiding behind terrain, and use your superior scheming abilities to efficiently gain points.

Keep Archie safe: For this matchup, Archie is going to end up being an extremely important means of scoring points. He will likely spend a lot of time interacting or dropping off crooligans. He should kill enemies when they are vulnerable, but don't send him against their rider for instance.

The Strategy: I place one bomb on Nani, one on Archie, and one on each Crooligan. Nani has the primary job of finding a safe place to cross the board and drop off the crooligans. Archie is her backup. If Nani can't make it, Archie goes somewhere else, drops off his bomb and the crooligans, and returns to the fight. By activating last on turn one, you can get really solid positions for them.

Schemes: I think you chose okay schemes for the matchup. Dashel might decide to turtle his base, in which case you may have been better off getting harness the leyline. This depends on deployment type - on flank deployment breakthrough is easy. On corner deployment, not so much. Again, by using your ability to get the last activation, you could safely ensure minions were in combat turn 5 without them dying. Detonate and deliver a message were probably always going to be tricky. With your composition you wanted to avoid their crew, so I think you did well to avoid those schemes. 

Disturbing Story: The Riders are extremely powerful, but Molly has a really good counter against them. If you can hit it with disturbing story when they have three cards in hand, that's 3 irreducible damage. Do it twice, and the rider is almost dead. You want to poke it a little bit and then punish it really hard when it commits. Also note that the Pale Rider can only reduce damage from df based attacks. Using willpower attacks is a great way to whittle it down.

Dealing with focus: It is a weakness of our crew. The best defense is to not get hit (by using terrain). The second best defense is to remove their focus (Molly and Nani have triggers to remove conditions, I believe). Also make use of slow to bog them down, but don't go out of your way to get in range.

Next time: Keep at it! Definitely look into having an appropriate amount of terrain on the table (you should have 3 square feet of terrain!) It may also be worth playing smaller games (such as master + 30 soulstones) until you get used to your crew.

[Aemaru]

Thanks for the advices

On my compo :

Against Dashel, when she came at range,  Nani was just gold with her abilitie to inflict 2 damages to those ennemy focusing, countering the ability of Dashel. Ennemy within 6" take : Chatty (no interact without discarding can be avoid but seems a bit disturbing), "He's starting to make sense..." (Focused = 2 damages), and Boring conversation (Every non walk action = TN 10 Wp) She is a really good (allowing to bring some tools to counter some of mollyweakness) She won't go in rampage but put a protection bubble which can be interesting

Archie took good care of the pale rider ... even with his so big damages reduction archie beat him to death ^^ the combo Archie / Killer instinct bring my several soulstone and was good.

Rabble risers made it but I think there was may be better to do with them. with 12 points i think I could have something better.

Necrotic machine was really good too

On gameplay :

I went out of cards very quick with the crooligans etc , even with molly given we played with a 5 cards hand instead of 6. I was very handicapped by this.. I think I need to manage better my hand. I tend to burn easily all my hand thinking molly will replenish it but it did'nt turn like this (maybe because of the 5 cards hand bug ^^)

I  exposed too much Molly and forgot i could reduce damages with soulstone. She would have survive turn 2 then with grave spirit and maybe the game would have been a bit different. The reactivation ability is great !

The deploiement was corner so breakthrought was a big mistake i think ...

 

I usually play infinity so I need to practice

 

 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Yeah, it is tricky managing your hand! I never teleport all the crooligans in one turn. I usually stagger them with different assignments.

While the first crooligan is getting himself set up, the second (Or third if you're taking a third) can drop scheme markers near Molly. She can then use lost knowledge to draw two cards off of them. Don't get too reliant on it, but I draw tons of cards this way.

5 card hands? Was that just a mistake? As that would seriously cripple Molly's crew!

[Aemaru]

YEs a mistake I think it was worst for me than for Dashel ^^ .. I mssed the molly Lost knowledge !

When playing a new crew there are so many things to learn to play it right ...

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, Aemaru said:

YEs a mistake I think it was worst for me than for Dashel ^^ .. I mssed the molly Lost knowledge !

When playing a new crew there are so many things to learn to play it right ...

For sure! This is why I recommend smaller games. Even with Molly's core box, you have so much to learn with just those models.

[Aemaru]

I forgot prey on nothingness trigger... but as many attacks were at range 10" or more was not a good way to deal with it.. Focus is REALLY strong adding a flip positif on both duel and damage flips...

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Aemaru said:

I forgot prey on nothingness trigger... but as many attacks were at range 10" or more was not a good way to deal with it.. Focus is REALLY strong adding a flip positif on both duel and damage flips...

Yup! It is the standard counter to our crew, and guild loves focused shots anyway. The trick is to make them work to get into position to shoot you (usually with terrain), so they have less actions to focus.

[Aemaru]

Another game against Vic sisters

Another pretty straight, strong destruction oriented crew. In my meta people like to go forward for the efficiency : easy brawl, heal, very good mobility and let's go.

 

Scenario was Reckoning

Schemes were Harness leyline, outflank, power ritual take prisoner, and deliver a message.

My compo was this time :

 

https://m3e-crew-builder.herokuapp.com/m3e/index?crew=f--Resurrectionist:l--Molly Squidpiddge--Grave Spirit's Touch:s--50:n--New Molly Squidpiddge crew:r--Necrotic Machine--:h--Philip and the Nanny--:h--Rogue Necromancy--:h--Archie--Killer Instinct:h--Rabble Riser--Grave Spirit's Touch:h--Crooligan--:h--Crooligan--

 

I ran into problems choosing outflank and power ritual which seemed on paper easier to perform but next time I might avoid this too appealing choice (ritual and outflank go obviously together)

 

I was a bit greedy, sisters were on range after their initial push but I strongly shoul not fall in that trap on my first turn I rush with Archie lost him by the end of the turn, after surviving to all sisters.

Sisters were a nightmare with the one healing the other. I discovered the power of disturbing story allowing to avoid shielded... but the hard to kill on top of that make them really hard to kill.

Against the vic i'm seriously considering to hire Sloth to counter their healing. Regarding this 8" healing ability, in forgotten we have only access to grave digger 2" heal, carrion 2" heal and necrotic 2"action. The rogue necromancy as a great survivability with a good regen boost. Do we have some other healing sources I missed ??

Result was 3-3 so a tie if I planned better my last turn not bringing a crooligan in the middle of the melee for nothing I should have score one more point with outflank. (molly was able to push and go at 8" of the good corner and the crooligan to teleport there and move move)

With 6 cards in hands it was easier ^^

 

Molly : save the game and was really good. With a one more question she make my opponent remove one crucial scheme marker preventing him to score the second point for dark ritual. one question : with constructive criticism does the minion only able to reactivate (way i play it) or does he reactivates instantly ?

I use her Lost knowledge and I feel to start playing her more correctly. Her upgrade was not necessary i think

Necrotic Bidule : I missused him but his Ceaseless Advance (push 2" + action at the end phase if the opponent has no card left) is really good ! (is it possible at that time to re use its bonus action ? I think it is but...)

Archie : Ok he's not invincible. next time I'll be more carefull with him. He made so little impact for his points.

Rogue necro : Big piece of meat not subtil but survivability ok. Not a great mobility. I missused it and inverted its role and the one of archie : I sent it on the flank to stop 2 little minions but i should have sent archie because of leap ! he could have make a good come back in the center melee. Once on the flank he took too much time to come back.

Rabble Riser : The upgrade giving him Terrifying was just fantastic ! the other two upgrades were not good use but this one was worth it ! Terrifying was a really good defense. With Nani combine it was really hard for him not to fail one or two actions... He tried to depop Vic sister so he missed and when initiative would allow him to achieve one vic sister at 1 life point my opponent drew a red joker for initiative ^^ so he died, she regen etc. No luck but it was interesting for the points. Molly was able to make him reactivate. 

Crooligans : still gold and fun to play !! they might be a little cards consuming but they are excellent !

Nani : Still pain in the ass as long as the opponent doesn't come to get her. 2 actions of a sister and no more nani. Her bubble is really great but when you do not play her quickly you loose that defensive bubble and even with manipulative against good melee profil Nani dies too quickly ! But the boring conversation is powerfull !