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thewrathchilde last won the day on November 26

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  1. thewrathchilde

    Last 6 SS- 2nd Investigator or 2 x Guild Guard?

    Thsnks. I already had two Monster Hunters in the crew. I agree. I did that deliberately to see how the limited would affect the conversation thinking that some real tight constraints might focus the conversation on those choices instead of the rest of the list, Master, etc and bring some key points to light that I hadn’t considered. I do the same if I am down activations. The Guild Guard help balance those pretty cheaply and are AP that I can use for menial tasks without feeling like I am wasting them. So I actually tried it out both ways- played two games- to see which did more for me. Strategy was Ply (Standard), Random Schemes; my list was: Perdita w/Trick Shooting & Fastest Draw, Frank w/Wade In & Lead Lined Coat, Nino, Monster Hunter x 2, Guild Investigator 1, Brutal Effigy, and then Guild Guard x 2 and 4 SS in the first game and Guild Investigator 2 and 4 SS in the second game. Post games I am still split on what’s more effective. With the Guild Guard I had 9 activations so was able to wait out almost all his stuff first turn before opening up with Perdita with a full hand + 1 extra card from the Investigator. I had already softened some targets up in advance with other shooting before i activated Perdita. With the Effigy Buff up I drew 2 more cards and had eliminated 2 models (Beckoners) and was in a good position for turn 2 with a significant model, card, AP, and board advantage. The rest of the game snowballed from there. Game 2 I played with the 2nd Investigator. The pushes from 2 x Investigators was awesome. 1 x Scheme Marker and pushing both Frank and Perdita was really good. The extra card each turn was pretty good too. I did miss the extra activation first turn but each turn this became less of a factor. I came away from the game mixed. I definitely liked the additional pushes for first turn but would have still been effective without them. The Guild Guard would have let me see one more activation before Frank and Perdita but the difference between seeing their 6th or 7th first isn’t that critical probably..... granted they are going to hold what matters for late but Perdita has the range to playbher game anyway usually unless it’s a full out rush on their part. It was the mid turns that there was a clear difference for me- with the Guild Guard I am usually forward using them for bait, to soften targets with a couple of damage, to deal the last wound on a HtK model, etc. With decent wounds and armor they are annoying to put down for their cost. Wih the 2nd Investigator it really felt like I was just eating a scheme marker to draw, walking, dropping a scheme marker to push Frank or Perdita to a more optimal position. He only provided 1 extra card per turn but when the total is 3-4 extra cards per turn even without Hero’d Gamble it starts to add up. It is hard for me to weigh... the Guard x 2 did more on their own, the 2nd Investigator did more to augment the crew.
  2. I am struggling through the decision on my last 6 SS in a particular list (not counting what I am holding back for additional Stones). I am debating between adding a 2nd Guild Investigator or 2 x Guild Guard to my crew. Typically the decision would be pretty easy based on what tools I need for a specific game- for this game however, the scheme pool isn't something particularly marker heavy, there aren't any schemes that punish me for taking the Guild Guard. Here are the things I am considering- Guild Guard- more wounds, armor, more activations & actions, more potential attacks....the key to me; the primary thing they provide, is activation control (potentially) taking my list up to 9 activations. Of course they also provide a couple of more shots per turn or melee attacks, etc but mainly its wounds, activations, and two models the opponent has to target. They can also be another expendable source of activations to drop scheme markers for the other Investigator to push with. 2nd Investigator- the second Investigator primarily provides double the pushes and an additional card per turn. There are other things the Investigator provides- disguised, better stats than the Guid Guard, Just Act Casual- but primarily it it double the pushes from each scheme marker and an extra card per turn. With the second Investigator in the list I am still at 8 activations which is respectable though obviously 9 gives me one more look at the opponents turn 1 before anything critical of mine activates. Thoughts, opinions? Alternately I have also though about a Queller instead of a second Investigator but I already have tools to deal with Armor and Incorporeal in my list and the Investigator is more reliable card draw than the Queller provides. @Ludvig, @4thstringer....we haven't had much discussion on here recently. what do you think?
  3. thewrathchilde

    Guild newb

    @Ludvig no need to convince me. She is my most run Henchman with almost any master in Guild. I just think for a new player who is using Perdita that the Monster Hunters are a better first buy. They are a third of the cost ($) and Perdita can use both (the whole box) vice buying the Nellie box and only using Phiona until you start playing Nellie. From a cost perspective for the cost of the Nellie boxnhe can get the Monster Hunters, Guild Investigators, and Effigy and come out with more overall that will work good with Perdita.
  4. thewrathchilde

    Guild newb

    Ludvig put you in a good direction. The place I would disagree with him is on Nellie's box. I dig some Nellie and use Phiona in a lot of lists but with Perdita you already have plenty of Elite choices in her own box that I rarely find room to run Phiona + Upgrades. Nellie's box is a great buy if you are going to run Nellie but if you initially plan on running Perdita exclusively for a while then I would get the Brutal Effigy. Monster Hunters, and Guild Investigators and/or Thalarian Quellers. The Effigy gives heals and some limited card draw, the Monster Hunters are just great for their points and have a lot of tricks, the Investigator gives you pushes, another card a turn, and anti-scheme as well. The Thalarian Quellers are additional anti-armor/anti-incorporeal if you play against crews that are heavy with either. For your meta the Investigator is probably the better buy. The Guild Guard (just buy the Lucius box when you get around to them) are great for additional cheap activations, scheme running, etc.
  5. thewrathchilde

    Pandora- First Game Request for Feedback

    I had only brought 4 so was out of stones.... first turn I had to use two for damage prevention flips and two because of the assassinate trigger on Misaki’s Bisento.
  6. thewrathchilde

    Pandora- First Game Request for Feedback

    got another game in recently with Pandora against the same opponent. This time he was running Stalking Bisento Misaki. I did swap around a few upgrades and dropped a second Will O' Wisp in order to get Baby Kade in the list as well. Didn't work out so well for me this game......I didn't clearly communicate intent with my opponent so ended up thinking I had Pandora hidden behind a tower where Misaki couldn't see her. He said he could (and did by about a mm of clearance) so ended up getting a charge against Pandy on turn 1 with Misaki after stalking her. I had ended up behind the tower after a push and had plenty of room left on the push where I could have went the mm or so further right to ensure she couldn't be seen. Oh well, my fault for not clearly checking with my opponent as I did the push to make sure this wasn't going to come up. Shouldn't be an issue though as I had a 13 and a 12 in my hand. First attack I cheat in the 12 and he cheats in a 13. I stone against the damage and prevent the damage. Now I am pretty confident I can cheat in the 13 and push out.....I flip the Black Joker so can't cheat in the 13 and end up taking 6 damage and having to discard 2 stones to prevent the assassinate. I cheat in on the next attack and manage to push away. He is out of activations at this point so I end up positioning Candy for turn 2 and Lure Pandy away from Misaki to get her where she can get away and start summoning and beating until I can get her healed up with Candy. The plan going into turn 2 is that I can cheat initiative if I need to with Doppeganger to ensure I go first and focus Incite on Yas to set up the paralyze. Force Yas to activate first for my opponent so he is paralyzed and I immediately get another activation (Pandora) to get out of dodge start attacking the other side. Solid plan and should neutralize his other biggest threat, get me away from Misaki, and position me to kill off a couple of his smaller models and start getting control with a Poltergeist and some Sorrows to augment the rest of my crew. Draw up my hand.....not a card above a 6.....flip initiative; he gets a 4 and I get the Black Joker......so I can't cheat, have no cards high enough to protect Pandora from Misaki, and can't force him to activate Yasunori first.....needless to say the game was over in about 5 more minutes with Pandora, Candy, and anything else that mattered dead in my crew. Didn't really get any play value out of the game so no further decisions on changes or modification. Next time I play it I will probably run virtually the same crew as in game 2 and see how it performs. The only thing I did get out of the game was a reminder that against this opponent to explicitly state everything ahead of hide with intent to ensure that if I think something is out of LOS then it is out of LOS. I thought I was being obvious the way I was positioning her.....but I never explicitly said I was placing her where Misaki couldn't see her or vice versa or asked if this hid her..... I usually don't get salty when I play win or lose but this game put me off and I just packed afterwards and didn't play anything else that night. Maybe tomorrow I will get another game in with her. Typically when I am playing something new (to me) I run that master for better or worse no matter if it’s a good pool or not to start getting a feel for them. With Pandy I think I will probably be more selective. Do any of you solo get or run her all comers or is she always a situational pick?
  7. thewrathchilde

    Pandora- First Game Request for Feedback

    I don’t think I ever got both Sweets and Sours in the same turn though I did get each of them at times. Sweets was definitely more important in this game fore the paralyze on Yas. By itself it isn’t too hard to get off- a focused Incite on Yas after he activated on turn one and then Candy stands next to him as my last activation. For sure against most players you aren’t going to be able to lock down a lot of models with her easily but with Lures from Lilitu or others you can pull their models into her engagement after which she just becomes the first model you activate to cast Charm because she doesn’t need to do anything else. You can’t do this is a game of Ply because they could still Ply her but with another strategy I think this would work. I do agree that I might need another beater in the list though but might just try to slip Baby Kade in and see if he can halfway fill the role and give me some more flexibility. I think I can address some of my concerns by just altering play style. In this case I was focused on denying Ply when I should have let him get Gathered Intel on someone early (as long ad I could get more later) and then start summoning off him fast and then switching to the Incites, Self Loathing, etc after I had a few Sorrows out. Probably I need to get a few more games in and then start swapping a model here and there to see what works. The downside is my one regular opponent plays Yasunori like he is a required choice so my games are always going to be a little slanted by the presence of a big anti-WP attack model.
  8. thewrathchilde

    Pandora- First Game Request for Feedback

    I will look at this as an option next time I play here and try it out. I had taken Fugue State for the WP 15 duel whenever the opponent's crew interacts within 8" for more passive damage thinking that, with Sorrows, it could potentially be several damage every time the opponent Plys. I will look at the Emissary as well. I have it but as of yet have not assembled or used it. I could also see the benefit in copying the Poltergeist or some other abilities in a Pandora crew as well. My thought process was with activation control from summoning I could still control the Ply game anyway. Additionally in Ply they are putting conditions on their own models which should make the summoning easier. While they can't summon the turn they are summoned Sorrows can still summon and then "teleport" (Misery Loves Company) into a better/safer position where they could continue to provide benefit from Misery or just tie up something until another model comes in to Ply as well. However, to Paralyze would have still "cost" me two AP (most likely) to Focus and Cast or at least a Stone (for the + Flip to get even) and a cast from Pandora. The way I ended up doing it I could also focus and Incite from Iggy saving Pandora's AP for other actions and Candy was able to Paralyze him without using AP and Ply and then cast Melancholy at other models and get the passive damage from Fears Given Form. With Lures, Incites, and Melancholy the dream was for Candy to tie up multiple models, paralyze, Ply, get damage from Fears Given Form and get damage from Sours.....I wasn't able to get it fully in place but she was adding value for me with Ply and Sweets for sure. Candy may not be the optimal choice and once I get my Emissary put together an painted I will try some games with it instead but I do think she is better than some people give her credit for. Primarily I am interested in running Summoning Pandora but will probably try out a game or two with Paralyze as well. I am not really looking to be able to solo her in all games/pools but think she is cool, wanted to get a few more Neverborn masters, and have another good option for events that encourage the use of multiple masters. other thoughts and comments from the group?
  9. thewrathchilde

    Pandora- First Game Request for Feedback

    interesting. I haven't really looked at him with Pandora. Typically I have been looking at her for things like Ply and Symbols where the opposing crew needs to interact so I can also take advantage of Fugue State and the need for the opposing crew to close with mine or at least with the symbols. His condition is pretty interesting and I really like the discard to cheat aura but I don't have anything (yet) I am ready to swap out to try him....just not convinced he is a good swap or better than the things I am already using. The biggest issue is that Yas is Stubborn so all WP attacks against him are at a (-) flip so it effectively cuts my AP in half as I pretty much have to focus to force anything to an even flip where I can beat him or cheat. Additionally he is HT 3 so can see over pretty much everything in my crew, has Armor + 1, a boatload of wounds (12), and a charge of 10".....plus gets a ton of attacks with his triggers to attack again. When you put all this together he effectively cuts in half the AP of any model attacking with a WP attack since you need to focus (unless you have the Poltergeist sitting next to him maybe) and then even if you are hitting him with Self Loathing with the Armor you are probably only dealing 2/3 damage per attack plus Misery so probably takes at least 3-4 attacks to take him down which means 6-8 AP to get focused and that's only if he doesn't have the cards to out cheat you. Meanwhile he is wrecking anything close to him with his attacks and with the Emissary there to push him around and give him Fast he is even more of a threat. In my game I didn't have a good answer to try to kill him without committing an insane amount of resources so instead I would hit him with a focused Incite and park Candy next to him to paralyze him. This worked but only if I have Candy (which I like though others don't) in my crew but I am sure that other people probably have their "go to" solutions for dealing with things like Yas, Riders, or other models that are either Stubborn or just difficult to attack with WP based attacks.
  10. so.....I was primarily a Guild player but recently picked up Pandora. I have played one game with her and welcome some feedback. I am posting this separate from the Pandora tactics thread to avoid clogging that with discussion that may not be relevant outside of the list/pool I played. The game I played was: Flank Deployment, Ply for Information, w/Surround Them, Undercover, Covert, Inescapable, and Public Demo. I took Undercover (Pandora) and Covert. I also strongly considered Surround Them as an option as well but decided that Undercover and Covert were my best options and things I could score incidentally without dedicating any/much AP to them instead of shutting down my opponent. My list was: Pandora w/Woe is Me, Fugue State, and Depression; Candy w/Best Behavior and Thousand Faces; Lilitu; Doppleganger; Lelu w/Satisfying Punishment; Iggy w/Enraged Tantrum; Will O’Wisp x 2; Cache: 6. In this game I took Fugue State because of The number of interacting strats/schemes. The Wisps were there for conditions, to stop charges, and copy the Sorrows and Poltergeist’s (2) actions. Most of what I took was designed to give WP checks or apply conditions so Pandora could summon. My opponent played: Lynch w/Cheating Bastard, Woke Up With a Hand, and Wanna See a Trick; Huggy w/Peaceful Waters; Yasunori w/Recalled Training; Shadow Emissary w/Conflux of Hunger; Terracotta Warrior; Beckoner x 2; and a Monk of Low River. I had a lot of trouble with the Emissary and Yasunori though and never could get the summoning really going. I got the Poltergeist out multiple times but only got 1 sorrow in the first two turns which really slowed me down (I think). I would welcome some inout on how you deal with things like Yas- my answer was a focused Incite and have Candy stand next to her..... Some people don’t seem to like Candy but I thought with the Lures, Copy (Doppleganger), and Incites that I could use her Sweets/Sours to benefit. Plus it was Flank deployment to I could use her (0) to rapidly redeploy her from virtually one side of the board to the other if needed. In practice she got a few Ply/Gathered Intel for me and was really my only way to neutralize Yasunori with the Paralyze from Sweets and a focused Incite to make her activate first after turn 1. Overall I didn't feel like I was able to capitalize off of what I thought would be her strengths in this type of list. I almost never was able to summon- in the first two turns only getting out 1 x Sorrow- though I did get the Poltergeist out twice. I welcome your feedback and general thoughts. Also I would appreciate some tips and discussion on how you deal with models like Yasunori or any models with abilities that make Willpower duels less effective. thanks,
  11. thewrathchilde

    Barbaros looking forward

    I thought he already worked for Guild as Perdita’s totem....
  12. on September 16th at the Thunder Mountain Gamers monthly game day I will be running Malifaux demos, have multiple table sets for open Malifaux play and will be running an Enforcer Brawl at 3:00. W: Me on behalf of Thunder Mountain Gamers W: Demos, Open Gaming (Henchman Hardcore & GG format games), and 3PM Enforcer Brawl W: 16 September 12:00-5:00PM W: Cochise College, Sierra Vista Campus, Student Union Building Community Room, 901 Colombo Ave, Sierra Vista, AZ, 85635 W: to provide demos for new players, encourage players to come out and play, and provide an opportunity for new players and interested gamers to try out the rules/mechanics in a low key, fun, group environment. I will bring a variety of Enforcers from several factions for interested gamers who may not have their own models yet. If you are in Southeast Arizona come on out and have a good time! We will be running Neerborn vs Ten Thunders in the demo but if you have other requests let me know.
  13. thewrathchilde

    How to be a better Opponent?

    sometimes that happens. A lot of times an opponent gets upset not because of something you did but because they are upset they made a mistake or didn't make a good decision. In cases like that there is really nothing you can do about it. In cases where they they feel like it was a "gotcha" moment (whether it was or not) the only way you can prevent this is to talk through things with them before they make a decision. You can't always do this and some players don't like it because they don't want your input but whenever it is a BAD mathematically unsound decision I try to politely point it out, talk through why it isn't a good decision, and alternate options they have. At that point if they do it anyway and it doesn't work out they are more likely to not get upset as they "knew" it was unlikely to work. In your example it seems like you couldn't have done this as you weren't tuned in to what they were doing until it is too late. The other thing I do (trade secrets revealed) is I always try to talk up what my opponent is doing when they do something good, sympathize with them when something bad happens, point out how close something could have been, etc to keep them feeling positive and that if something bad happened it was just poor luck and there was nothing that could be done....people tend to feel better about bad situations if they feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel or the situation is no fault of there own. Reinforcing that the bad situation is a result of their own poor decisions just tends to make them more upset. Some people would be down on taking this approach as it isn't how I genuinely feel about the situation and that I am trying to manipulate my opponent. However, I don't see it that way...I am just trying to ensure everyone is in a good mood and has a good game no matter what the result is. People are more likely to continue to play, participate, etc if they have fun and/or have a good time win or lose than they are if they are down on themselves and miserable about the game. always good in situations like this. sometimes I am guilty of this too. I can play a fast game when I have to but prefer to have time to analyze and make the best decisions. However if you want to see dup play there are a few recommendations I would make. Speed is based on in depth understanding of your models, their interactions, and how to use them in multiple circumstances. The few options and greater the familiarity you have with them the quicker your play will be. Though a lot of people don't like smaller games in my opinion the key is to play more games at smaller points levels using the some of the same models you use in a bigger game. In the smaller game there are fewer variables so it becomes easier for you to see interactions, patterns, and develops set of common approaches to dealing with certain situations. Then incrementally step up the size adding 1 more model, playing more games, 1 more model, playing more games, etc until you are up to your standard 50SS game. The more mileage you get with the same models the quicker you will get at assessing the situation and making decisions about how to employ them in a variety of games. This is hard for a lot of people to do as they get bored with the same thing game after game....fortunately in Malifaux even if you are playing the same thing the changes in strategies and schemes and opposing crews can keep things fun even if you are using the same crew over and over. When you do swap things out minimize how much you change (1-2 models tops) so you can still use your default TTPs with the majority of the crew utilizing your previous experiences and practice. I used to be the same way years ago in competitive warhammer and would tunnel vision on the game in order to focus, assess, make good decisions, and win. The down side was my soft scores suffered and I would often get middle of the road on sportsmanship..... I wasn't being rude or unfriendly, I just wasn't making the effort to be social and was focused on the game and winning. While maybe it shouldn't matter a lot of people tend to enjoy the game more if their opponent is friendly and social rather than all business. Once I realized this I started making the conscious effort to socialize throughout the game (easier in person than online) this tends to make people feel more engaged and enjoy the game more no matter how it goes. I generally try to focus a lot of the side bar discussion on the game, what I am doing, what they are doing, etc. It generally avoids a lot of confusion and issues with conditions, effects, measurements, etc when you talk through intent while you are playing and moving. This also allows the disagreements about anything (LOS, range, etc) to occur while you/they still have time to compensate and adjust rather than once it's too late to go back and then makes them feel "cheated" out of a chance to do what they wanted. there isn't anything wrong with this at all. Everything should be done exactly. However, it can lead to a negative experience when everything you do is questioned.....instead what I have started doing is just being exact myself and then clearly communicating with the to avoid issues or mistakes on their part. For example, instead of micromanaging their movement to ensure they can't range an important model of mine and making the argument about their movement, I just measure carefully between us when I move my pieces and clearly articulate the distance and the fact that their model will not be able to get within range. If you establish this up front it avoids the issue. Same with multiple models- I will measure between them and discuss which of theirs can/cannot get to me, range me, etc.... Just my .02, hopefully something of value in there somewhere.
  14. thewrathchilde

    Help wanted...

    @Teluriel12 it would require some purchasing but a decent amount of that could be used with Dreamer..... you would need the Dreamer's box (Hide and Seek) but Doppleganger, Widow Weaver, the Stitched, and even the Bunraku and Beckoners could work well with him. Might not be the most optimal way to run Dreamer but he can buff/enable minions, Widow Weaver works well with him and so does Doppleganger for cheating initiative so you can activate Chompy, chain into Dreamer, and then pop Chompy back out before they can react. Down the road you would want to get Lilitu and Lelu, Serena Bowman, and maybe even a Teddy but just by getting the Dreamer box you play with a number of the other things you have. Maybe Dreamer w/Upgrades, Doppleganger, 2 x Beckoner, 2 x Stitched, 2 x Bunraku.....or drop 1 x Stitched and add Widow Weaver.
  15. thewrathchilde

    Help me pick a list for my game in 5 hours.

    Lady J and Pals........if your friend hasn't played in a while then something more straight forward that probably uses a lot of Wave 3 and pre models would probably be better than them trying to put all the pieces back together plus playing against something that is trickier.