Pandora condition removal

[Corwin]

I think this works but I want to run it by you guys to make sure it dose and I'm not missing something. With her version of Opportunist can you attack her with any model that has an unwanted condition and remove it for the + flip on her defense? It is an idea that I think could be great but haven't been in the position to use it yet.

[Wenshai]

Pandoras self loathing is enemy only. I guess this is no longer a thing.

[Adran]

Yes this would work, although as pointed out, it only works for them attacking her, because she can't do opposed duels against friendly models. You do have the risk of hitting her though. 

 

EDIT

To be completely clear on what I meant For Solkan  - Pandora, on her card, is unable to initiate an opposed duel against a friendly model because self loathing is Enemy only.  She is able to be targeted by friendly models and so opposed duels can be initiated that way. You can also buy upgrades to her that give her actions so she can initiate opposed duels. Dispel magic is very good for this because it doesn't have a bad effect if the action succeeds.

 

 

[solkan]

“Because she can’t do opposed Duels against friendly models” is incorrect.

Pandora attacking a friendly, or a friendly model attacking Pandora, are both opposed Duels.  Remember that the criteria for relenting is an opposed duel with a friendly model.

Quote

If two friendly models are in an opposed duel, the resisting model may choose to relent before any cards are flipped. If it does, the relenting model (but not the acting model) skips Steps “A” through “D” below. The relenting model’s final duel total is treated as being the same as the acting model’s final duel total.

And if you relent, the positive flip is going to be harmless.

So you get the choice of:

-Attack Pandora, Pandora removes the Condition for a positive to her defensive flip, and then choose whether you want to relent or flip the cards on both sides.

- Pandora Attacks the model, removes the Condition for a positive flip, and then decides whether to relent or flip the cards on both sides.

The problem with Pandora is that she only has one attack with an opposed duel, and that’s “Enemy only”.

But, hilariously for this purpose, the Eldritch Magic card has Dispel Magic on it.  You can slap a “Up to 100% more Condition removal” sticker on that baby.   

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, solkan said:

“Because she can’t do opposed Duels against friendly models” is incorrect.

Edit: nvm, missed you saying this in your post xD

I think they mean "Pandora has no opposed duels that can target friendly models on her card."

She can do it with the upgrade, but not with her core kit?

[solkan]

I just found the part that complicates half of “Use Opportunist and then relent”.

If you relent, you skip Step A.  The last sentence of Step A is “If either player has any effects that resolve before per- forming a duel, they resolve now.”  And Opportunist is “Before performing an opposed duel”.

 In other words, Opportunist happens in Step A of the duel, so if you’re doing “Attack Pandora, so she can strip a Condition off of you”, Pandora can’t relent.  You’ll have to take your chances attacking Pandora when she’s got a positive flip for defense.

 

[solkan]

 

Quote

She can do it with the upgrade, but not with her core kit?

Yep.  And it’s particularly extreme with the upgrade because she goes from not being able to remove conditions using her own actions, to having a double effectiveness condition removal action.  

Pandora takes the Dispel Magic Action.  In Step A, she removes a Condition from the target.  Now she’s got a positive flip, and goes through the duel to see if she removes a second Condition from the target.

But that’s probably want you want out of using a master’s action for condition removal.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Seems sweet against McMourning.

Remove poison + injured on your own crew. Remove poison + focus on his.

[Ogid]

That upgrade seems quite good in her in condition heavy match ups! Using a Master action in condition removal hurts, but it can be situationaly good...

However I find relenting not the best option, even if it were legal. If you are attacking her you don't want to succeed, just the condition removed; relenting you'll deal min damage to her; if she flips 2 cards in defense, it's possible you win that flip and avoid all damage (or you can even cheat a low card in the attacking flip).

[Mut]

Eldritch Magic basically allows the Woe crew to hard-counter most condition-heavy crews out there. I am eventually going to be playing Colette soon as another player in our meta uses her exclusively in 3E so far, and I was thinking about this exact strategy. The trick is to give Pandora enough mobility tricks via her crew (Ride with Me, Where's Teddy, Lure, etc.) to make sure she can be where she needs to be to strip the conditions off. Definitely excited to try it.

[Ogid]

21 minutes ago, Mut said:

The trick is to give Pandora enough mobility tricks via her crew (Ride with Me, Where's Teddy, Lure, etc.) to make sure she can be where she needs to be to strip the conditions off.

An very good interaction for this. Pandora (and Candy) have noattack, so Lyssa may use her bring it to give them a lot of mobility without the drawbacks of that action (plus they are very cheap, so it's the ideal model to use for this kind of supportish role).