Will one of you go and do well at a tourney with guild?

[Myyrä]

Just to make sure we are all on the same page, there is no wider consensus here.

1 minute ago, Cronex13 said:

If we were to leave behind the mimic ability and just define stat itself, it would include positive and suits right?

Take it to the rules forum.

[Toqtamish]

7 minutes ago, Cronex13 said:

If we were to leave behind the mimic ability and just define stat itself, it would include positive and suits right?

No.

[Starrius]

Another question for the different areas

 

Do you think guild becomes less.viable with single masters (as for uk we dont really seem tonuse dual masters while us seems to have really taken it only

 

Does the addition of a second master for pools add orndetrsct for us both in selection and in how our match ups go

[Myyrä]

43 minutes ago, Starrius said:

Do you think guild becomes less.viable with single masters (as for uk we dont really seem tonuse dual masters while us seems to have really taken it only

Yes and no. Guild loses some potential good lists without the option for a second master, but so does every other faction, as far as I can see. So Guild isn't really suffering compared to other factions because of that.

I think, rather than on the faction level, the difference is felt on an individual master level, because some masters simply don't have access to all the tools they would like without including a second master. This again, is true both within and outside Guild faction.

43 minutes ago, Starrius said:

Does the addition of a second master for pools add orndetrsct for us both in selection and in how our match ups go

No idea, what you are asking here.

[Gnomezilla]

55 minutes ago, Cronex13 said:

If we were to leave behind the mimic ability and just define stat itself, it would include positive and suits right?

I agree with the answer of ‘No’, but I understand the confusion: definitely when I talk about a model’s attack stat when judging its worth I include the positive [but not the suit], and yet when I define ‘stat’ RAW I only mean the number.

 

 

On topic, the most recent tournament had the happy circumstance where nobody lost all three rounds.

I didn’t attend.

I don’t know whether any Guild attended.

[Starrius]

Sorry bad typing

 

Does the addition of a second master for pools add or detract for us, both in selection and in how our match ups go.

 

I've yet to even look at running 2 masters, but I've also yet to find a keyword I cant work with either 

[4thstringer]

4 hours ago, Myyrä said:

You probably shouldn't go analyzing the rules based on the language used if your English isn't perfect.

Anywho, you might have a point if that was the only paragraph in the rules saying that the suit is not part of the stat, but there are also others in the Duels part of the rules:

Notice the multiple suits. The current duel total being referred to is the one before cheating, and the only way to have multiple suits at that point is to have one associated with a card and another one associated with the stat, because suits from soulstones only get added to the final duel total.

Not that I really think the writers of these rules have really paid that close an attention, but if we assume that they indeed have, then the only logical conclusion is that the suit is separate from the stat.

I think what you are pointing out only supports their argument.  If the rulebook says "Players add their stat, the value of the flipped card, and any suits to determine their current duel total."   If you are adding suits after you add the stat, then the suit is not the stat.  

 

[4thstringer]

50 minutes ago, Starrius said:

Sorry bad typing

 

Does the addition of a second master for pools add or detract for us, both in selection and in how our match ups go.

 

I've yet to even look at running 2 masters, but I've also yet to find a keyword I cant work with either 

I think 2 masters helps guild compete.

 

Someone said above Lucius isn't good, and I disagree about that.  Being not good myself, I'd ask @Flippin' Wyrd Matt to chime in if he still reads this, because iirc he likes Lucius in this edition.  Jesse from TFW meta probably also could, but I don't know his handle.

[Starrius]

I think the only semi weak keyword in guild is guard and that's only because It needs more card draw, I can still play it ok but to me it's the weakest keyword and the rest can do well

[Flippin' Wyrd Matt]

Thanks for the tag as I super would of missed this 😂

Im unsure were the post is about Lucia's but would be interested in reading it as I think he is one of the best masters guild has to offer! 

His keyword has the power of scheme manipulation, denial ability, card draw, ap manipulation, killing power and I'm sure so much more. 

One of the most versatile masters we have I would say. I still dont run dual masters out of principle I dont think it is balanced to be played in competitive, and also of a firm opinion that guild dont need it. We have some solid models and I think second masters may be to much of a resource drain in a faction that dose not have much resource generation. 

Happy to give more detail about why I think Lucia's is a solid pick if people have questions 😁 obviously just my opinion and experience from the Flippin Wyrd Meta

[Cronex13]

Welp, as I have apparently become the group naysayer, I suppose I'll start @Flippin' Wyrd Matt.

I'm not a master of Lucius by any means, but my experiences with him at tournament level play have been fairly poor due to the fragility of the crew. Basically every model in keyword has an irritating aura that they give out, and the ability to hand out negative flips. This is nice and can come in handy but I often find my crew dying in droves regardless. It's been mentioned to me that the amount of slow the crew can hand out (lawyers, Alan Reid) can help with preventing enemy focus, which makes our negative flips much more potent defensively speaking. However, this requires quite a few different elements to succeed, whereas other keywords like Augmented or Marshalls have their defensive tech built in without cost to itself (armor and hard to wound).

So if I was to turn this into a learning opportunity instead of a gripe, I would ask you this: how do you handle keeping your models alive long enough to accomplish your strats and schemes?

 

[Flippin' Wyrd Matt]

10 minutes ago, Cronex13 said:

Welp, as I have apparently become the group naysayer, I suppose I'll start @Flippin' Wyrd Matt.

I'm not a master of Lucius by any means, but my experiences with him at tournament level play have been fairly poor due to the fragility of the crew. Basically every model in keyword has an irritating aura that they give out, and the ability to hand out negative flips. This is nice and can come in handy but I often find my crew dying in droves regardless. It's been mentioned to me that the amount of slow the crew can hand out (lawyers, Alan Reid) can help with preventing enemy focus, which makes our negative flips much more potent defensively speaking. However, this requires quite a few different elements to succeed, whereas other keywords like Augmented or Marshalls have their defensive tech built in without cost to itself (armor and hard to wound).

So if I was to turn this into a learning opportunity instead of a gripe, I would ask you this: how do you handle keeping your models alive long enough to accomplish your strats and schemes?

 

Thanks for posting the question buddy. 

I can see why u would see them as fragile I found that its overlapping defensive ability in the first few turns to limit that damage coming in. 

So for instance making sure the scribe stays in a useful position to keep his betrayal aura in play. 

False witnesses with there tell no lies aura. Almost just making all the choices a bad choice to come in on them. 

With combination of putting out negative flips I found that they can keep going for a frustrating amount of the time.

But the main way I found to keep models alive us that I strip the resources out of my opponents crew with the ability in the crew and keep my resources up with follow orders. 

But I can see why u would struggle to keep them up. They cant take a solid hit to many times. A very surgical crew, they whittle your resources and remove key pieces in my experience definitely not a smash you in your face turn 1 crew.

Hope this helps or at least answers the questions 😂

[Myyrä]

2 hours ago, Flippin' Wyrd Matt said:

But I can see why u would struggle to keep them up. They cant take a solid hit to many times. A very surgical crew, they whittle your resources and remove key pieces in my experience definitely not a smash you in your face turn 1 crew.

What do you do when opponent decides to smash your face? The models aren't really fast enough to avoid the opponent most of the time, and that cannot be used that many times before you are out of cards.

[Starrius]

2 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

What do you do when opponent decides to smash your face? The models aren't really fast enough to avoid the opponent most of the time, and that cannot be used that many times before you are out of cards.

The crew can draw quite a few cards as most obeys will draw you a card.

 

On lucius activation alone you can generally pick up 2 or 3 cards if you are obeying.

 

Plus any pass marker usage is a card draw

[Myyrä]

1 minute ago, Starrius said:

The crew can draw quite a few cards as most obeys will draw you a card.

 

On lucius activation alone you can generally pick up 2 or 3 cards if you are obeying.

 

Plus any pass marker usage is a card draw

That's why you are supposed to concentrate the aggression in as few activations as possible so as to not to give the opponent a chance to recover by healing or drawing cards or whatever.

[Flippin' Wyrd Matt]

2 hours ago, Myyrä said:

What do you do when opponent decides to smash your face? The models aren't really fast enough to avoid the opponent most of the time, and that cannot be used that many times before you are out of cards.

Its is a concern but in these situations u need to give them no good choices a massive part of top table malifaux for me personally comes down to that resource management and some times u have to just accept a model will die and save the cards for the counter. 

It can be hard pill to swallow but u can't save them and there is always casualties in war 😂

[Starrius]

7 minutes ago, Flippin' Wyrd Matt said:

Its is a concern but in these situations u need to give them no good choices a massive part of top table malifaux for me personally comes down to that resource management and some times u have to just accept a model will die and save the cards for the counter. 

It can be hard pill to swallow but u can't save them and there is always casualties in war 😂

I agree with this if a model dies to score you a point elsewhere then it isnt a loss and it feels a hard thing to learn, noone likes losing models but some times its needed.  I wish I could be willing to sacrifice more sometimes but that's how we improve

[Myyrä]

It has been my experience that once the crew suffers enough casualties it is rarely able to compete anymore, especially if you can't make your opponent suffer as well.

[Starrius]

1 minute ago, Myyrä said:

It has been my experience that once the crew suffers enough casualties it is rarely able to compete anymore, especially if you can't make your opponent suffer as well.

Weirdly I think playing hamelin for 3 to 5 games is helping me see it better in 1 turn incan kill off 4 to 6 rats for things and even a rat king or 2 just to get what I want. I'm playing a bit more to help me with this mentality I hope

[Flippin' Wyrd Matt]

Just now, Myyrä said:

It has been my experience that once the crew suffers enough casualties it is rarely able to compete anymore, especially if you can't make your opponent suffer as well.

100% agree. That's why u need to make sure those losses dont break down your game plan. 

So for me my list really suffers if I lose agent 46, or Grimwell as they are the main points of damage and with out them u would struggle to capitalise on the resource drain and card advantage he has that Lucia's brings, that being said if they have been free to do there job for 3 turns I find they have done enough damage that u can afford to lose them

[Gnomezilla]

wholly unearned victory dance continues

[Dark Reaper]

10 hours ago, Flippin' Wyrd Matt said:

100% agree. That's why u need to make sure those losses dont break down your game plan. 

So for me my list really suffers if I lose agent 46, or Grimwell as they are the main points of damage and with out them u would struggle to capitalise on the resource drain and card advantage he has that Lucia's brings, that being said if they have been free to do there job for 3 turns I find they have done enough damage that u can afford to lose them

You are playing a list that keys off staggered, right? I have tried something like that for a few games, and I actually really like it. Will probably be even better when Reid is released.

 

Another option is to make more of a gunline with Pale Rider, Dopple and 46. You get a lot of fairly good shots off early in the game, and can then switch to melee after you have picked off a key model or two (ideally)

[Flippin' Wyrd Matt]

43 minutes ago, Dark Reaper said:

You are playing a list that keys off staggered, right? I have tried something like that for a few games, and I actually really like it. Will probably be even better when Reid is released.

 

Another option is to make more of a gunline with Pale Rider, Dopple and 46. You get a lot of fairly good shots off early in the game, and can then switch to melee after you have picked off a key model or two (ideally)

Yeah the list I favour is all about stripping all my opponents resources and then executing models. I enjoy it but dose take some playing to get right and it can be a pain to balance how u play with attack and scheme running 😂

The gun line sounds like a cool option to try, will throw it into the Flippin' Wyrd Blender that is are meta and see how it performs. 

[GameSoHard]

34 minutes ago, Flippin' Wyrd Matt said:

Yeah the list I favour is all about stripping all my opponents resources and then executing models. I enjoy it but dose take some playing to get right and it can be a pain to balance how u play with attack and scheme running 😂

The gun line sounds like a cool option to try, will throw it into the Flippin' Wyrd Blender that is are meta and see how it performs. 

What are you using to get the staggered on? Do you proxy Alan Reid or use investigators (I hate their 0" range so much...) or something else?

I've played gunline Lucius but honestly after Turn 1 I find myself in combat anyway and just using melee attacks.

[Flippin' Wyrd Matt]

2 hours ago, GameSoHard said:

What are you using to get the staggered on? Do you proxy Alan Reid or use investigators (I hate their 0" range so much...) or something else?

I've played gunline Lucius but honestly after Turn 1 I find myself in combat anyway and just using melee attacks.

I have a Proxy for Alan Reid and Investigators are fantastic! Ml7 min 3 damage when targeting a staggered model. They are just amazing!