Yan Lo's and upgades

[bedjy]

Hi guys, Yesterday, I had a game with this awesome keyword, playing a plant explosives strategy against Basse.

For some time now, my friend and I have noticed that Yan lo's crew has become the : "not worth trying to hit most of them" crew.
I'll explain : 

Turn 1, Chiaki has Manos and a Gokudo in 4". She just gives Manos uprade to the Gokudo.

Now we have a Gokudo, Mv7, most of its stat 5, to everything, that has H2K, demise Eternal, Regen +2. This little fellow just focus once on turn one (in addition to Risky Maneuver) and therefore will draw us a card whenever we cheat for anything. He can disengage and still Interact, he almost can't die... He also has a 17" threatening range, with 2/3/4 staggered attack with to hit and to damage. I never had that kind of experience with any model in Malifaux.
Now we have a Manos, that can go everywhere on the table, not carrying about dying, because he can't really be killed.

=> So the opponent has 2 impossible to kill scheme runners, that can disengage themselves with ease

I've found that Chiaki's trigger Split the Soul was a very elegant way to make Reliquaries usefull, but I think, in the end, it's over the top.
Also, playing with all of Yan Lo's upgrades, in addition to all the reliquaries upgrades + standard upgrades + McCabe or Shenlong... Let me that bitter taste, using 12+ upgrades to deal with all over the table.
Reliquaries shouldn't do anything, but allow a model to come back to the table, so Chiaki would be good, but not mandatory.

[Fetid Strumpet]

It’s mostly a problem with Manos’ reliquary I feel. But Yan Lo’s crew is likely one of the ones that will need errata down at some point.

[nomoredroids]

1 hour ago, bedjy said:

Reliquaries shouldn't do anything, but allow a model to come back to the table, so Chiaki would be good, but not mandatory.

Yeah, that never happens. Reliquaries weren't getting used at all because people were taking Gokudo, and Gokudo kept getting buffed to keep them alive long enough to function. They're still not getting used according to their design niche (to provide a means of returning Ancestors to the board without removing one of your other models). And now that they've been constantly buffed they're oppressive and are worth more than their SS. I complained about this in every one of my BatReps with YL.  

[SerZaka]

3 hours ago, bedjy said:

"not worth trying to hit most of them" crew.

That's how I won against him until now... And I didn't faced Manos yet

In the last two games I killed just one Gokudo and Yoshiro/Izamu once (the main tactic without Manos is simply give the beater Rel to the Gokudo and send him (the beater) mindlessly forward). I won through schemes losing almost everyone during the game .

Killing the big guys is useless and damages more you than the adversary (you lose a lot of AP, he simply summon him back and gain a Gokudo where it needs ). Focusing on the Gokudos is a trap . You really risk losing entire turns .

Anyway there is model very similar to the buffed Manos-Gokudo that is the Midnight Stalker (Demise , Leap instead of mov 7 and 3"push, HtK with Upgrade , possibly don't mind me with the emissary, and fast most of the time)

[Trample]

13 hours ago, SerZaka said:

Killing the big guys is useless and damages more you than the adversary (you lose a lot of AP, he simply summon him back and gain a Gokudo where it needs ). Focusing on the Gokudos is a trap . You really risk losing entire turns .

I haven't played with or against Yan Lo (although I've been meanting to do so), but it still seems like targeting the Gokudos would be the best course of action. There are likely two, one of whom will have the Manos reliquary. He won't be easy to kill with 9 effective woulds, HTK, and plus flips. I would still think focusing heavily on them would be critical to stop the replacement. Yeah, it's a lot of resources, but still maybe the right move? 

The crew is pretty tough, but anti-demise things can really mess them up. Charm warders, another Manos, Shenlong, models with execute. There aren't really many factions that can pull that off though. I would not declare Yan Lo against either Ressers or Thunders for that reason. 

[Nikodemus]

Demise and Replace stuff in the crew tends to require LoS to other models. If enemy can bury me and attack buried models, they can bypass it to some extent. Had a challenging game against Tara the other night. Not sure if Lady J would pose similar issues.

Can't really comment on Yan Lo's relative power level yet. I've won against weaker players and lost against stronger players. Hoping to get more games with him in the build up to release. On paper he does seem rather (too?) sturdy I'll grant that.