Guild vs all summon Nicodem

[Clement]

On 6/12/2017 at 1:48 AM, Adran said:

. (Granted if we went to a 6th turn, I would have lost, but that s not the tournament way) 

 

kind of off topic, but this is the second time I've seen this in as many weeks.  Do tournament games *not* flip for extra turns?  Is that documented somewhere?

[Adran]

Just now, Clement said:

kind of off topic, but this is the second time I've seen this in as many weeks.  Do tournament games *not* flip for extra turns?  Is that documented somewhere?

AS far as I can see its not official gaining grounds, but a very common TO adaptation to the rules. After all these are timed rounds, and they don't want to be waiting around. (lots of people don't even manage to get 5 round in the time.)

As with all things tournament related, its up to the T.O. 

[Clement]

31 minutes ago, Adran said:

AS far as I can see its not official gaining grounds, but a very common TO adaptation to the rules. After all these are timed rounds, and they don't want to be waiting around. (lots of people don't even manage to get 5 round in the time.)

As with all things tournament related, its up to the T.O. 

That's what I thought.   We'd ran into an incident involving it when a group from a different meta had just assumed that was the rule at an event.  Glad to know nobody missed anything.

[Ludvig]

Timekeeping rules seem to vary a lot. It's important to be super clear since that is also something that leaves players feeling cheated when they may have adopted a strategy that was strictly speaking bad due to false expectations on this. We don't usually have this rule where I play but at the first international tournament I went to it was used, I found it rather nice to not have to plan for a 6th turn. I know a few people at the last tournament I held felt cheated because we strictly kept time and called last turn a set number of minutes before the timer ran out which they weren't used to.

[4thstringer]

Outside of winning by time,  What are your favorite anti nico masters? 

[Ludvig]

In interference I'm screwed no matter what. In regular strats I like McCabe, he is aggressive and can bring other models to make them aggressive too. The big base and the crews access to nimble helps block markers and promises plus the nature of McCabes dismount rule makes hanged need to work for their master kill.

Could just be that I mesh better with McCabe, my Sonnia game isn't very strong.

[hydranixx]

As much as Sonnia can produce fantastic results against Nicodem, a lot of that relies on the Nicodem player's experience, or lack thereof, with facing blasters. It's true that she can absolutely destroy his crew in 1 or 2 activations if he's in a mediocre position and is only summoning, but he has many tools available to help him endure her spells: Shards of Kythera from his Emissary, options for applying additional s to her attacks with Crooligans, Sebastian or even one of his upgrades, in addition to any available Hard Cover features. Simply standing a bit further back, well out of line of sight, works well enough for the early turns, since he's usually coming out in Interference and it's ok to chill in the back for most of the game.

Personally, I'm much more afraid of McCabe than Sonnia, especially of his Glowing Sabre. That things cuts through my copious Hard to Wound/Hard to Kill/Armour +1/+2, and it can be wherever the McCabe player needs it to, at the right time. 

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

Outside of winning by time,  What are your favorite anti nico masters? 

I can only answer this inversely, as a Nicodem player myself. Hyper aggressive masters do me the most harm. From what I hear, Lady Justice+Emissary taxi would be positively terrifying to face. There's so many things on her card that just ruins Nicodem's day, not least the fact that she denies Corpse Markers when making kills, which makes attrition impossible for Nicodem. She can one shot his summons if they fail attacks against her and she can kill multiple support pieces in a single activation. 

Of course, she also has the option to potentially outright kill him, if she is well positioned after her taxi ride and prepared to spend the soulstones. With his decidedly awful Df4, the Onslaught trigger becomes legitimately scary if she buys it. He will die unless he uses multiple soulstones defensively, in which case his summoning is dampened for the rest of the game. I think a good Lady J player can warp how one can play Nicodem entirely.

In terms of general play, the models that cause me the most trouble are ones immune to conditions that can just get in my face. A lot of Nico's damage or debuffs come from conditions, so Numb to the World is a great option for Guild players. Poison, Adversary, Slow, Take your Meds... None of them work... So Nicodem sits there kind of scratching his head while your high value enforcer rips into his summoning engine around him.

[Myyrä]

7 hours ago, Ludvig said:

In interference I'm screwed no matter what. In regular strats I like McCabe, he is aggressive and can bring other models to make them aggressive too. The big base and the crews access to nimble helps block markers and promises plus the nature of McCabes dismount rule makes hanged need to work for their master kill.

Could just be that I mesh better with McCabe, my Sonnia game isn't very strong.

In certain tables you can try and counter Nico's summoning by limiting his ability to move his models around. Sonnia and couple of traps can go a long way in achieving that. You don't even have to go full retard trying to buff Sonnia if you are trying to focus on the board control side, so you can leave out Papa and Franc for some other models if needed.

[Adran]

9 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

Outside of winning by time,  What are your favorite anti nico masters? 

The one that is best for the current strat. 

Honestly, the best way to stop Nico is to actually ask the right question. 

Things Like "How do I deal with swarms of summoned Minions in Interference" will lead to a very different answer to " How do I hold Turf war against swarms of summoned minions"

(The first might be area damage, the second might be Using Bishop, who will probably not get attacked very much due to his ability to kill models that miss him in Ml)

"How do I stop there being swarms of summons"  is a combination of control, resource destruction and beaters.  If you have Disrupt magic and get a stalker near Nicodem, he won't summon much (And if you also have re-incarnation, when they kill the stalker you can get the burning on something that you can then kill and turn into another stalker) . You shoot low Df models with Austrings for their distract trigger and remove their hand, you hit Nicodem, and force him to use his hand/soulstones to remain alive. Paralylsing him or killing corpse counters will also work. taking the fight to him, and having it all occur in his half of the table probably means that he will struggle to score. 

[Rostislav]

On 14.06.2017 at 1:08 PM, Adran said:

Outside of winning by time,  What are your favorite anti nico masters? 

It's really the big problem of Nico. My oponent is a skilled player, but wasn't doing well on tournaments mainly because of time contol. His game often ends turn 3/4.
But on regular games we don't use time control.

So, last saturday I tried Lady bomb.

I had:
Lady J, 
Judge,
Emissary,
Francisco,
Exorcist,
Lone Marshall

Headhunter/Hunting party/Show of force

He had Nicodeem,
Mortimer,
2 nurses,
Dog,
Malifaux kid,
Bete Noire,
Phillip and Nanny

He didn't let me charge something important turn 1, I just killed Bete Noire (who came back)

On turn 2 i delivered Francisco nearby

Long story short at the end of turn 3 the score was 5/1, Lady and Francisco dead, all Nico crew alive and undead horde ready.

At the end of turn 4 I got 3 extra points and the score was 8/3 in Guild favour. But almost everyone dead or wounded badly.

At the end of turn 5 the score was 8-6 and the game ended. All my crew was killed. 

Sweet victory? =)

[Ludvig]

@Rotislav

Sounds like a pretty solid win to me! Dying while scoring is the most elegant way of playing malifaux in my view. 

Why on earth couldn't Nico score more? He should easily have gotten both headhunter and hunting party since your list seems to automatically give hunting party away and all the heads would favour Nico picking them up.

[Adran]

On 2017-6-17 at 9:56 AM, Rostislav said:

It's really the big problem of Nico. My oponent is a skilled player, but wasn't doing well on tournaments mainly because of time contol. His game often ends turn 3/4.
But on regular games we don't use time control.

He didn't let me charge something important turn 1, I just killed Bete Noire (who came back)

On turn 2 i delivered Francisco nearby

Long story short at the end of turn 3 the score was 5/1, Lady and Francisco dead, all Nico crew alive and undead horde ready.

At the end of turn 4 I got 3 extra points and the score was 8/3 in Guild favour. But almost everyone dead or wounded badly.

At the end of turn 5 the score was 8-6 and the game ended. All my crew was killed. 

Sweet victory? =)

Sounds like a great victory to me.

A classic example of focusing on the objectives and not on killing. (I'm strongly against slow play, but playing to exhaust 5 turns is a perfectly valid route). Did you feel it shows the risk of playing a list to build an unstoppable force over the first couple of turns?