Yan Lo and Mei Feng box sets...

[kneemus]

Hi everyone! New to the forums and Malifaux as well, and I am trying to decide where to start of course. I've narrowed it down to three masters, Yan Lo, Mei Feng or Collodi. I want to try and keep my initial purchases down because I'd like to paint everything I play with and I want to make sure I like the game system enough. What I was wondering is:

 

1. How do the box sets of Yan Lo and Mei Feng measure up in terms of model usability. Does either one come with models that I might not want to field right away? Does one box set necessitate the purchase of more models than the other?

 

What I'm learning about Malifaux is that it's very mission driven and that the mission will change from game to game. So understanding that, I'm just looking for some broad generalities is all. Plus, any two cents on Collodi will be a boon!! Thanks for any help you can provide and I look forward to making my first purchase!!! 

[Tokapondora]

It all depends on what faction you want venture into. Especially on a budget you should be sticking to one faction. If you're picking Collodi, you're gonna be needing a bigger focus on Neverborn units for your future purchases. If going for Ten Thunders, which the Yan Lo and Mei Feng seem to indicate - Mei's is a much better starter set. Kang is a great model, the Rail Workers are decent and Mei is very easy to pick up. The biggest downside is that your crew will very be slow. You'll need a few extra models to compensate for that. Yan meanwhile has three units that are usually Ressurectionist only, a good enforcer but nothing that's going to carry your game and is very tricky to play right. He'll be needing a few extra purchases too, in his case stronger units.

For smaller games their boxes will be fine but naturally, as neither come anywhere near 50 SS, you'll need a few extras when going for bigger "real" games. I'd suggest you start playing smaller 35 SS games with one crewbox and maybe one extra model to see if you're into it at all, what sort of playstyle you feel you're missing and what you like, and then follow it up with another crew box and perhaps another model. Due to the mission driven nature of Malifaux and naturally varrying levels of affinity certain masters have with different missions, it tends to be nice to have at least a second option and most crewboxes have some models in them that fill up the gaps another crew box leaves quite naturally. 

Are there any other masters or models in TT that interest you at all?

[Dogmantra]

If you're looking at 10 Thunders as a faction, from a purely budget perspective I'd say Mei Feng is a better start than Yan Lo for a couple of reasons. Firstly is that Yan Lo's box is lacking a real hard hitter. There are some great options available for him in 10T, particularly his thematic option, Izamu the Armour, but you get Kang in Mei's box right away. Secondly is that Yan Lo's minions, the Ashigaru, are Resurrectionist only, but Yan Lo has an ability that allows him to hire them into 10T. This means if you pick up a second master you may need to purchase extra models to be able to field a full size crew with them. You can get some use out of the Ashigaru without having to bring Yan Lo if you bring Toshiro the Daimyo, who can summon them, even in Ten Thunders meaning those models don't go to waste (and the sculpts are some of my favourites in the whole game!)

Personally though I find Yan Lo a lot more appealing than Mei Feng, he's quite a lot of fun. But the caveat is that he is fairly complex with a lot of options available to him at any point and some extra resource management. If you're comfortable with that, that's awesome I don't want to discourage you, but as a new player you might want someone more straightforward (I personally love to jump in at the deep end but I realise I am a bit of an outlier).

I can't really speak to Collodi, you will probably get more help in the Neverborn section.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

As for Collodi, while he is superb master, the models that come with him are, well, a bit weak (except his totems, they're fine). So, if you really want to try the game first, and then eventually develop your collection, follow Tokapondora's advice and pick Mei Feng.

[hydranixx]

I concur that Mei's an excellent starting master. Good stats, good mobility, immunity to slow and paralyze, fantastic counter shooting or casting crews, plus in ideal circumstances she can combo multiple attacks into enemy models... I didn't know much about Malifaux when I picked her up, but I found her really good to learn with.

Kang and Railworkers are admittedly quite slow, but they're tough as nails and pack a punch. Mei makes up for their relative lack of speed all by herself, and her Emberling is quick enough to get wherever you need it.

If you start with Mei Feng, decide you like her, and decide you like the game after all. You can then pick up Yan Lo as your second or third master. There's sufficient crossover between them to share a pool of models, and he'd feel smoother to operate as you'd have a better feel for the game. He's a bit finicky for brand new players.

You can play 35ss games with her box alone if you include upgrades (I suggest downloading or ordering the generic upgrade as the same time as the crew).

[kneemus]

On 5/19/2017 at 8:14 AM, Tokapondora said:

Are there any other masters or models in TT that interest you at all?

I like Mr. Graves, The Archers and Snipers in 10T. I also like Yan Lo of course too. How do I determine which models are "Foundry?" The Rail Golem is cool too, but I don't quite understand which models can be used with which Masters as of yet. I believe she can take Arcanist models as well? But I don't understand when she is an Arcanist or when she would be 10T. Argh!!!! It's confusing!!! Haha, =) 

[kneemus]

Thanks everyone for all the help too!! I played my first demo game this past Saturday and I was a blast!!! 

[Dogmantra]

2 hours ago, kneemus said:

I like Mr. Graves, The Archers and Snipers in 10T. I also like Yan Lo of course too. How do I determine which models are "Foundry?" The Rail Golem is cool too, but I don't quite understand which models can be used with which Masters as of yet. I believe she can take Arcanist models as well? But I don't understand when she is an Arcanist or when she would be 10T. Argh!!!! It's confusing!!! Haha, =) 

Before you make a crew for your game you declare to the opponent which faction you're playing. For dual faction masters, by default, you can only hire models from the faction you declared so if you're playing Mei Feng and you declared Ten Thunders as your faction you can only make a crew with any TT models. However most dual faction masters have a way to hire other models. This is usually linked to characteristics, which are the two lines on the stat card just below the model's name that say things like living, minion or foundry*. Mei Feng is allowed to hire Foundry models regardless of faction and off the top of my head some of those are the Rail Golem and Sparks (a gremlin).

 

*  both the line in italics and the line below it in allcaps are characteristics. The difference is that the italic line have inherent rules in the rulebook while the allcaps line are only referred to by other models and that's where you will usually find the characteristics that allow out of faction hiring.

[Greebo]

Foundry Models are:

From the Arcanist Faction: Metal Gamin, Rail Golem, Willie 

Gremlins: Sparks, Mechanical Porkchop

Ten Thunders: Kang

Dual Faction 10T/Arcanists: Rail Worker, Emberling, Mei Feng

 

That should be it. 

[Tokapondora]

Well, especially since you're just starting I wouldn't worry too much about buying non-Ten Thunder models. They're fun little extras but in no way necessary. If you want to go Yan Lo you'll be needing to look for the characteristic "Ancestor" though (Izamu, Toshiro, Yin).

Both Mr. Graves and the Katanaka Snipers are models that can do great in almost any TT crew, with Graves providing pushes and some nice damage and Snipers giving a lot of ranged threat. Yan Lo's box might require you to buy some combination of Izamu, Yin and Toshiro+Komainu. Izamu and Yin don't do much for Mei specifically, though they're both good models. Toshiro and the Komainu however are amazing with Mei. The Komainu are strong cheap sturdy constructs, and Toshiro can summon Komainu from scrap markers and gives buffs like focus, fast and flips to minions.

Some nice all-round list with a combination of these might be...

Mei
-Vapormancy
-Seismic Claws

Emberling

Toshiro
-Command of the Graves

Kang

Chiaki the Niece

Katanaka Sniper

Railworker

Komainu

And 3 SS to spend on upgrades or put in your cache as you please. It's hardly a set build you should go for every time, but it might provide a nice all-round base from which you can expand into your own playstyle. Toshiro buffs minions and summons occasionally, Chiaki heals and schemes, Kang and Mei try to do some damage and the others you can use how you please.

That should be Mei's Starter Box, Toshiro, the Snipers and the Komainu. And then, if you ever get to Yan Lo, you can add Chiaki. For Yan I'd get Izamu at least, perhaps instead of Graves. Izamu synergizes quite a bit more with Yan and is also a great all-round model. Yin is an amazing debuffer/tarpit, which should be nice, but with all that and either (or both ) of these two you should be able to play both crews with some great versatility and results. And down the line there might be some more units you want but that's all a worry for later.

[kneemus]

2 hours ago, Tokapondora said:

Toshiro and the Komainu however are amazing with Mei. The Komainu are strong cheap sturdy constructs, and Toshiro can summon Komainu from scrap markers and gives buffs like focus, fast and flips to minions.

Some nice all-round list with a combination of these might be...

Mei
-Vapormancy
-Seismic Claws

Emberling

Toshiro
-Command of the Graves

Kang

Chiaki the Niece

Katanaka Sniper

Railworker

Komainu

And 3 SS to spend on upgrades or put in your cache as you please. It's hardly a set build you should go for every time, but it might provide a nice all-round base from which you can expand into your own playstyle. Toshiro buffs minions and summons occasionally, Chiaki heals and schemes, Kang and Mei try to do some damage and the others you can use how you please.

That should be Mei's Starter Box, Toshiro, the Snipers and the Komainu. 

Thanks for the above list guidance! That adds 4 models beyond the box set. Is it possible to only add a model or two too the Mei Feng box? Is more than one railworker a bit too redundant? I do like the Komainu model very much by the way...

[yanlosbeard]

4 hours ago, kneemus said:

Thanks for the above list guidance! That adds 4 models beyond the box set. Is it possible to only add a model or two too the Mei Feng box? Is more than one railworker a bit too redundant? I do like the Komainu model very much by the way...

Mei Feng's crew is pretty slow and melee-orientated, but really quite resilient to damage. If you are not looking to expand to 50ss right away, then I would just add a Mechanised Porkchop. It has great synergy with Mei Feng's crew box because it brings the speed that the crew box generally lacks, and drops scrap markers for Mei's Railwalker ability. It's downside is that it is a Gremlin model, and in 10 Thunders can therefore only be hired by Mei (because it is a Foundry model).

The following would make a solid 35ss crew, for example:

Mei Feng + upgrades

Emberling

Kang

2x Rail Worker

Mechanical Porkchop

Beyond the Porkchop, Mei's crew lacks attacks with a decent range, so Katanaka Snipers would be my next pick to cover that particular shortfall.

[Tokapondora]

I really wouldn't start with the Porkchop. It's a great model that I use too, but if you're just starting you won't have any use for it beyond Mei Feng, while Toshiro and Komainu are a great addition to Yan Lo as well because of the Ancestor characteristic of Toshiro that both the Komainu and Yan synergise with and buff.

If you're adding Toshiro, you should be adding Komainu as well. They pretty much go hand in hand since Toshiro can summon them (and the Ashigaru that come in the Yan Lo box). But at this point you'll be very weak at range, so I wouldn't leave the Snipers behind. But those three unit boxes should be enough to get you plenty of games in. Replace Chiaki with another Sniper or Rail worker until you get her and you'll do fine.

Are you restricted by budget or your desire to paint? Because the Shadow Emissary goes very well with both Yan and Mei (and most TT masters really), but he's also the cost of 2-3 other unit boxes.

[kneemus]

On 5/23/2017 at 2:59 AM, Tokapondora said:

Are you restricted by budget or your desire to paint? Because the Shadow Emissary goes very well with both Yan and Mei (and most TT masters really), but he's also the cost of 2-3 other unit boxes.

Not budget so much, just not wanting to go all-in too soon in a new game system. Like so many others I've bought rule sets, models that I didn't use nearly as much as I wanted too. 

[kneemus]

On 5/19/2017 at 4:35 PM, hydranixx said:

You can play 35ss games with her box alone if you include upgrades (I suggest downloading or ordering the generic upgrade as the same time as the crew).

What does the above mean? Specifically the "downloading" part? Is this different from buying the crew box?

[Dogmantra]

5 hours ago, kneemus said:

What does the above mean? Specifically the "downloading" part? Is this different from buying the crew box?

When you buy a box you get all the stat cards and upgrade cards that are specific to the models in that box, but there are some "generic" upgrades that can be taken by any eligible models in the correct faction. In 10 Thunders probably the most popular is Recalled Training which you may have heard of. These don't come with any models, the only way to get a copy is to either buy the books and print them out (they're spread between the "big rulebook" - Malifaux 2e, Crossroads, and Ripples of Fate), buy the Generalist Upgrade Decks (number 1 gets you the generic upgrades from the Big Rulebook and Crossroads, 2 gets you the generic upgrades from Ripples of Fate) or order them print-on-demand from Wargamevault.

[yanlosbeard]

On 23/05/2017 at 10:59 AM, Tokapondora said:

I really wouldn't start with the Porkchop. It's a great model that I use too, but if you're just starting you won't have any use for it beyond Mei Feng, while Toshiro and Komainu are a great addition to Yan Lo as well because of the Ancestor characteristic of Toshiro that both the Komainu and Yan synergise with and buff.

If you're adding Toshiro, you should be adding Komainu as well. They pretty much go hand in hand since Toshiro can summon them (and the Ashigaru that come in the Yan Lo box). But at this point you'll be very weak at range, so I wouldn't leave the Snipers behind. But those three unit boxes should be enough to get you plenty of games in. Replace Chiaki with another Sniper or Rail worker until you get her and you'll do fine.

Are you restricted by budget or your desire to paint? Because the Shadow Emissary goes very well with both Yan and Mei (and most TT masters really), but he's also the cost of 2-3 other unit boxes.

I acknowledge that the Porkchop is a niche purchase in that only Mei Feng can use it in Ten Thunders. But in my opinion it is hands down the best model to pick with her. I don't think that I would really recommend Toshiro to a beginner, as his summoning ability means that the OP will need to invest in additional models, and Toshiro works optimally in a Mei Feng crew which already includes a Porkchop anyway. Essentially the Porkchop is a great all-round model which also serves as an 'enabler' for Mei Feng's and Toshiro's abilities.

I agree that if the OP was purchasing both Mei and Yan boxes, then Toshiro would probably be the best match for both crews. But the thread reads as though the decision has been made to purchase Mei Feng exclusively initially, in which case Porkchop is the way to go IMO.

[Tokapondora]

If you're starting out the Porkchop won't do anything for you with any other Ten Thunders master you'll ever be getting. If you don't want to have a new must-buy list with every new master, having solid models that can be used in a lot of different settings makes for a much better purchase. Toshiro is a good model with a lot of masters, as are the Komainu. The Emissary does a lot for Mei as well, arguably moreso than the Porkchop if you're playing with fire (which the Komainu do too), and has the benefit of being a staple for about half the TT masters already. If he's planning to exclusively play Mei until the end of days then fine - but if anywhere down the line he's planning to make any other TT purchases, Yan Lo or not, he shouldn't bother with the Porkchop. 

[kneemus]

Thanks @yanlosbeard and @Tokapondora. I appreciate both bits of advice and I see the merits of each! So much of this is coming together more and more as I snoop around these forums and listen to podcasts. Regarding TT upgrade cards, will her box set come with some sort of reference that shows all the upgrade cards available to her? How do I know which ones to order from WarGamesVault that apply to her?

 

Also, there is a tome listed after her Railwalker TA. Does Railwalker succeed on a 7+, but Express Line only succeed on a 7+ with a tome? Am I understanding that correctly?

[Tokapondora]

@kneemus

On Railwalker - the TN of 14 means your duel total needs to be 14 or higher. For this action you start at a 7, meaning you have this is the base you will add to your flipped card. If you reach 14, you can perform the effect of Railwalker. Express Line is a trigger effect, meaning you need to have the  suit in your duel total to perform it. Since you start with 7, you automatically have the Express Line trigger and if you succeed on the Railwalking action you will always be able to trigger the Express Line. So with that, as long as you can throw up 7+'s, you can keep doing this action over and over.

Information on the general upgrades are spread across the books, with each bringing a few new ones. Some you won't use a lot if at all, others will find their way into pretty much every crew. They all have a Rarity from 1-3, meaning you can have up to that many spread across your crew. It's been a while so I'm not too sure on this, but  these generally come packaged with a lot of other cards - Book 1&2's upgrades, if I remember, are sold in 2 seperate packs with all the model cards of their respective books, and Book 4's come with the upgrades of all other factions. I don't know WarGamesVault's prices but buying them seperately might be cheaper (not sure). In case you don't have the books;

Book 1

Misdirection - Rare 1
Recalled Training - Rare 3
Servant of 5 Dragons - Rare 3
Broken Promises - Rare 2
Dragon Stone - Rare 1

Book 2

Smoke Grenades - Rare 1
On Wings Of Wind - Rare 1
Hidden Agenda - Rare 1 - Oiran
Blot the Sky - Rare 1 - Thunder Archers
Favour of Heaven - Rare 1 - Samurai
Favour of Earth - Rare 1 - Samurai
Favour of Jigoku - Rare 1 - Samurai

Book 4

Equality - Rare 1
Death Contract - Rare 1 + False Target - Rare 1
A Memory of Honour - Rare 1 - Fuhatsu
The Peaceful Waters - Rare 1 - Monks of Low River

The Italic ones are model-specific - they are buffs to their respective models and will not serve you any purpose without them (slight exception for Hidden Agenda but I won't get into that now).

The bold ones are upgrades I'd consider must-haves and you'll struggle to even create a crew without at least some of these once you have them.

Now save for Dragon Stone and Broken Promises the others are all situationally good as well. I can never really find space for Wings of Wind but others might disagree. I quite like Death Contract and False Target as fun little tech and a Servant of 5 Dragons might give you that slight edge against specific crews with specific models but in general you can live without many of these. I'd go for them while you're at it (at least Wings, Contract+Target and maybe 1 Servant) but don't be surprised if they'll be collecting dust a lot of the time.

[kneemus]

@Tokapondora How do I know which upgrades apply to her model? Or can any TT model take any TT upgrade, excluding model-specific upgrades? For example will something in her box set state: "Mei Feng can take the following upgrades..."

[Tokapondora]

@kneemus Oh, Mei Feng and Kang's personal upgrades are included in her crew box. Any unit's personal upgrades are in their respective boxes save for the ones listed above that were released later as a sort of "patch" to update weaker models. Mei's box comes with Vapormancy, Seismic Claws, Thunderous Smash and Price of Progress which are all exclusive to Mei Feng; People's Challenge for Kang and Hard Worker that any model with the Foundry characteristic can carry.

The ones I listed in the previous post are the general upgrades that all Ten Thunder Enforcers, Henchmen or Masters can take. Misdirection, Wings of Wind and Dragon Stone can only be carried by Masters (Mei, Yan), Broken Promises by Masters and Henchmen (Kang) and Smoke Grenades only by non-Masters but the rest can be carried by any Ten Thunder model capable of carrying upgrades. Cards like Misdirection allow you to redirect attacks to your master to nearby units, which Mei can make great use of since she always finds herself in the thick of it; Recalled Training gives you a  to all flips for one turn so you could raise Kang's already high damage even further; Smoke Grenades protect you from attacks over 6" away which is a great option if you're facing ranged crews... They're ultimately optional but provide great boosts that allow you to further specialise your units.

[kneemus]

Thanks so much!!!

 

[Adran]

On 2017-5-29 at 0:17 AM, kneemus said:

@Tokapondora How do I know which upgrades apply to her model? Or can any TT model take any TT upgrade, excluding model-specific upgrades? For example will something in her box set state: "Mei Feng can take the following upgrades..."

After you buy her box I would strongly recomend buying the Generalist Upgrade pack. (And shortly after Generalist Upgrade pack 2). That will then get you all the upgrades in  the game, for all factions, that aren't model specific. You can buy them individually on wargames vault but the pack isn't expensive, and once you have 2 or 3 factions its probably cheap to have bought the lot (And since you've already looked at 2 duel faction masters, you could play in 3 factions, and may well want the upgrades for those factions to try them out at some point)

[kneemus]

17 hours ago, Adran said:

After you buy her box I would strongly recomend buying the Generalist Upgrade pack. (And shortly after Generalist Upgrade pack 2). That will then get you all the upgrades in  the game, for all factions, that aren't model specific. You can buy them individually on wargames vault but the pack isn't expensive, and once you have 2 or 3 factions its probably cheap to have bought the lot (And since you've already looked at 2 duel faction masters, you could play in 3 factions, and may well want the upgrades for those factions to try them out at some point)

That makes sense. When I started delving into Malifaux I had completely convinced myself in buying only 1 Master/Crew. I can see how the game lends itself to buying more than one for sure....