KrazyIvan Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I see a lot of folks rave over the utility offered by Sue, but when I examine his card I just don't see it. Someone please tell me what all this utility is about, and what you use him for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue1 Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 He can be somewhat matchup dependant but for me I find he offers 3 things: Consistent ranged damage with his built in critical strike and on attacks. Card draw which admittedly can be somewhat risky but if you have a way to heal him easily it can be worth it. The that forces enemy casts to have a can be invaluable or worthless depending on the enemy's crew build. Facing Sonnia, Rasputina, or any other CA heavy crew and Sue will become public enemy #1. Facing a crew that does not rely on CA and he will have to focus on his other areas. Overall I rate Sue a very good choice in Outcasts and a situational Mercenary hire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadhna Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I struggle not to take him. He's Relentless, so screw terrifying. He gives card draw if you beed it. He shuts down Rotten Belle lures in an area, counters Nothing Beast bombs and Rasputina's shots. He provides decent area denial for a Frame for Murder bomb (i.e. Howard langston charging into your crew will get Burning +2/+3 and die without goving points) His guns are great with a + flip and critical built in. Sh5 is a disappointment, but you mostly get some shots in. Put Return Fire on him, and suddenly he shoots outside of activations, both in melee and at range. Laugh at Rapid Fires while flipping high Crows on defence and shooting back. He's also a good Waif anchor for Leveticus His only downside is Wk4, tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Sue dies fast as long as your opponent is aware of what he does. His Ca-protecting aura lasts until the end of the turn so unless you are lucky to win initiative and has nothing else to be urgently activated as the first model, Sue is more likely to be hit hard and barley withstand to turn 3 (if lucky again). If someone put's pressure on him early on then your 'free card' trick is not that obvious to pull off unless you dedicate some other model to heal him constantly. His Sh is 5 only so he might struggle with hitting something with Df6 standing in cover but it's not bad. Overally I think he is quite decent support model however I wouldn't mind if his aura would last till his next activation - then he would be excellent model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apes-ma Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 He has a flaming guitar and a gun! I don't know what else there is to understand... On the other hand, he has a variety of situationally very useful tools as others have said - and although they are all a bit situational, ONE of them will be good in most matchups, and even if you don't want an anti-casting bubble, a bit of finish the job, scrap and corpse marker removal, a bit of charge deterrent or an easy way to kill peons or totems, a free card every turn and a gun that has potential to really dish out the hurt is always pretty welcome! Sh5 and walk 4 are real downsides, but he's so flexible that I generally find myself hiring him without minding. Not to mention how return fire fits so well with him. He often doesn't find his way into very specialised crews unless I need something specific from him, but if I have the spare stones and I just want a reasonably flexible model that can occasionally blow some mooks away then he's normally in the crew. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexLock Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Sue has done a lot of work for me and is almost as auto-take for me as Johan, one of the most powerful models in the game. Now that Return Fire is an option it improves Sue even more, as it makes it much more worthwhile to spend a decent crow on defense or WP. I've had Sue do 10 damage to a Sabretooth Cerberus outside of his activation (albeit with a lot of luck as he was at - to defense) and I've had him use his auras to mess with casting crews or deal decent amounts of burning damage to models that want to get in melee, as others have said he's so versatile that it's hard to find a situation that he won't be useful and sometimes he can punch above his weight class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apes-ma Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 On 23/01/2017 at 7:36 AM, Seadhna said: His guns are great with a + flip and critical built in. Sh5 is a disappointment, but you mostly get some shots in. I don't know why I did this, but I was thinking about Sue's Sh5 after a game yesterday... Statistically, the average duel total of Sh5 is the same as a Sh7 - which was surprising! The obvious difference is the potential maximum flip - 19 in the case of Sh5 and 21 in the case of Sh7. I think that means that, on average, Sue can be expected to be just as accurate as a Sh7 model (for example, assuming no cover and no to defense, the average duel difference vs a Df6 model is 1, for both Sh5 and Sh7). The big difference is that Sue will have a harder time forcing damage through vs a Df6 model - if the defender cheats in a 13 then Sue cannot hit it, whereas the Sh7 model can. Interestingly, a model with Sh6 (e.g. Convict Gunslinger, Parker) is, on average (again, in terms of final duel total) MORE accurate than a Sh7 model! Basically it boils down to the fact that Sue and Perdita are both as accurate as each other, but if your opponent really wants to stop you from hitting he can stop Sue regardless of your hang, but if you have the cards he can't stop Perdita hitting at Df7 or lower. EDIT: Which thinking about it means that both stats are just as accurate, but different in subtle ways - Sh5 is more likely to make an opponent cheat, whereas Sh7, I think, is more conducive to your opponent holding onto higher cards ("well, he'll hit me anyway so I'll just put them to "). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Nice thing about is that, at least it feels like it, I more often end up cheating second. So when using a model like sh5 I'm either aiming to hit in which case I prioritise df5 targets or I'm aiming to drain my opponent's hand in which case I'm more willing to attack df6 or greater targets. High stats are better if you have a control hand to back them up, but I prefer positive flips and average stats for majority of my crew if I have a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apes-ma Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 22 minutes ago, Nikodemus said: Nice thing about is that, at least it feels like it, I more often end up cheating second. So when using a model like sh5 I'm either aiming to hit in which case I prioritise df5 targets or I'm aiming to drain my opponent's hand in which case I'm more willing to attack df6 or greater targets. High stats are better if you have a control hand to back them up, but I prefer positive flips and average stats for majority of my crew if I have a choice. Yeah, it's an interesting interaction. So, the average duel difference in Sh5 vs. Df6 is 1 (actually the same as the average duel difference Sh7 vs. Df6) which means that, on average, your opponent will actually be cheating first. Also, since the average flip is 7 (well, JUST over 7 accounting for the two jokers, but it is 7 rounded) you can expect (again, on average) your opponent to have to cheat 8+ to beat you. The big difference, in my mind, is that a Sh5 is more likely to draw out, say, an 8-10, perhaps an 11, whereas your opponent will want to save high face cards for your Sh7 monsters (if he's planning those cards for defence) - which means if you are trying to draw out cards, then the Sh5 is preferrable to Sh7, and also if you ALSO have some 8-10s that you don't have any other uses for, then they are more likely to be useful in forcing through attacks on lower statted models, than on Sh7 straight flip models. If an opponent is going to cheat a Sh7 attack, it is much less likely they will use up a 9 or 10. That last part is not actually shown in the maths of course... it's just my feeling on the subject. The mean duel difference of Sh5 vs Df5 is 2 - which means an opponent, on average, will need to use a 9+ to beat your duel total (and, obviously, if you have the cards you can always force it through). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 The important difference is that the average flip on a single flip is 7, the avaerage on a is nine. They do not produce equvilent probability distributions, so comparing averages is not the be all and end all 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apes-ma Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 19 minutes ago, Adran said: The important difference is that the average flip on a single flip is 7, the avaerage on a is nine. They do not produce equvilent probability distributions, so comparing averages is not the be all and end all That's true - skews the distribution to the right so the modal values are pretty different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnBloodbeard Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Don't forget when considering positive flips, there are a few other things worth thinking about - well, just one that I can think of at the moment. If you're getting to the tail end of your deck and you haven't seen the black joker, a positive flip is doubling your chance of seeing the joker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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