Wastrels - any tricks there?

[Tris]

Hi all, one (maybe) simple question:

has anyone here made good use out of Wastrels?

As hard as I try, I just can`t find a role for them, but what got me thinking again was a podcast (must´ve been a Arcane Reservoir or Schemes&Stones episode, although I don`t know what it was about...)someone said that he almost always takes one Wastrel for his list.

I just wonder why, and ask you kind people to help me brainstorm about them, is there something I miss?

 

(In the meantime I`ll try to find that epsiode, although I think it will take a while to listen to all these podcasts again^^)

 

Kind regards

[Gnomezilla]

It was a Ten Thunders podcast, if that helps.

Their stats seem fine, but just like you, I just couldn't get them to do anything noticeable. They looked like they could shoot. They could not. They couldn't do anything with a glowing saber that other 4ss models couldn't. It still puzzles me even after I traded them.

[Hidelfon]

I have not even assembled them ?

 

[Rudeboyscott]

I use them as scheme runners...they can double walk and get a free Defensive, so they can help out with stuff like leave your mark or inspection.  Bravado is also pretty good as you discard a card and then pick a suit to add, not just the suit that was discarded.  So they can take 2 Ml attacks and toss a low card for a mask on the 2nd, to push 3" which gets them out of all but the bigger engagement ranges of enemies.  Cast-offs can be used to double McCabe's Take This range...toss an upgrade on a wastrel in 10", push him 4" then cast off on a target in 6", which then gives the wastrel a trigger (which you can pick if you discarded to a card beforehand, since there's a duel involved in cast-offs).  This can lead to a ranged attack with a blast, a Ml which hands out slow (which McCabe and Sidir can exploit), a self heal or a 12" teleport to a scheme marker.

I find a lot lot of use for them in McCabe crews obviously, but I've also used them in a Lucius list.  Bravado really shines with Lynch though, because you can toss an ace, pick your trigger for cast-offs (which only the heal other model really works in a Lynch crew), then pick it back up. All in all, for a 4 point model they're pretty good.

[JDAntoine]

Like pretty much every 4 SS model in the Guild they can become Scheme runners ;), however I will say I feel the Bural Effigy, Reporters and Watchers seem to directly do a better job at that. The biggest pro to them is that they are in the McCabe box so you don't have to get trough burning hoops to get a multitude of them (Watcher) however I feel that if your going to pick Nellie up their functionality will further decrease for the Guild.

Their problem is not a distinct bad design but rather the sheer awesomeness of how Luna interacts with Guild Hounds so their Scheme runner shoes are easily filled with other models. 

No real need for a bad feeling though, boxes are designed as a starter kit aswell and usually starter kits contain stuff that doesn't have a huge function on the higher level. This seems to apply to all boxed sets aswell, some models are just great to get to know the game with and left alone afterwards for competative play. 

[BigHammer]

In Thunders, I take them with Shenlong for their synergy (focus for a 0 action, shoot and chuck a card for a mask to take a second focused shot) and their Ruthless, and their heal.

In guild, they're not quite as useful since there's nothing that will let the Wastrel focus for a (0). I'm not sure where they fit in there other than as a less dangerous version of their 10T self. They still have a + flip built in to their gun, so they're as accurate as most snipers, but you'll often find them doing 1 damage each time that way, less than ideal.

[Ludvig]

They do better with the saber than any other 4ss model since they can discard whatever low card you want to add a ram and draw a new card which isn't too bad. You can get cute and walk them with the badge of speed and then throw it to the next model and do one of the triggers. 

Outside of McCabe I haven't really found a good use for them. I had one babysit Francisco in a game and heal him above htk a few times between activations which made him last longer.

They could theoretically use their  to shooting to add burning to stuff in cover if you play them with a handler since you only need the single point of damage. Compared to Samaels 2ss upgrade that could be considered priceworthy but that upgrade isn't my preferred gold standard of usefulness  I don't believe the above trick would be considered very strong.

[admiralvorkraft]

They're better than Guild Guard, so they've got that going for them. Which is nice. They're cheap and they do a lot for their price. They also die if something looks at them sideways, so that's not the best.

[Ludvig]

They have stiff competition from the brutal effigy and watchers in most lists. When the new reporters hit general release I don't see them making many lists.

[Tapdancer]

Post from arcane reservoir podcast.  Largely an extension of Ludvig's comments.  I think the argument for them as sabre users as an alternative to hounds has strengthened now the companion ability has been adjusted.  Had good use out them in a high model count McCabe crew in things like reconnoitre.

 

 

I'm the Wastrel enthusiast.

My reasons for feeling that one at least in crew is as follows.

For 4 soulstones McCabe has better specific scheme runners, dogs (with luna) are cheaper/faster and watchers are general much faster with the new journalist being also better due to their defence tech.  those options when unopposed are all able to get scheme markers down where you want them efficiently.  Within McCabe crew however these cheap minions have another role, they become a sort of a punchy extension of McCabe due to the sabre, promises and black flash reactivate.   In this role the dogs are still good (charge 9") and the 1ap charge but watchers/journalist are lack lustre due to not having a charge. The wastrel synergies with the sabre to such an extent as to be well worth having as an addition or alternative to that second or third dog.  Its the discard a card for any suit then draw (if equipped with an upgrade) after action is complete.  With the sabre wastrels are min damage 3 rather than 2 which is a huge difference. Combined with the card draw their effectiveness is significantly greater than a dog once engaged. If you can get them into a valuable model with reactivate they are effectively flipping three cards for three attacks (without raising the risk of black jokering) with min damage 3.  If the valuable model survives (or another target is near by)  it also gives you a sudo-activaltion control because if you lose initiative the wastrel likely requiring dealing with before it can wreak face again.  Even with positive attack flips I've had dog wielding dogs bounce off tougher target with a couple of misses and only 2 x 2 damage hits.  A wastrel achieving just one extra hit doing 3 x 3 hurts a lot more.  On a four attack turn that amount of card draw also ups your chance of fishing out a joker which is also nice. 

As a stand alone model Wastrel  are not competitive but the extra threat it bring in a McCabe (guild) crew makes it well worth having.

[Ludvig]

On 7 november 2016 at 7:42 PM, admiralvorkraft said:

They're better than Guild Guard, so they've got that going for them. Which is nice. 

I can't believe I missed that reference the first time around! Bonus points to you my dear Admiral!  

[admiralvorkraft]

59 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

I can't believe I missed that reference the first time around! Bonus points to you my dear Admiral!  

Aw, thanks.

[Tris]

Thank you everyone, particulary Tapdancer, as he`s kind of the reason I started this thread

Think I`ll give them another go then, the argument regarding the sabers extra damage is valid, even though they are so slow and can`t take a hit with 5wounds and def 4, but they got that bit of versatility and possible card cycling that`s going for them, I mean, that`s the reason why I even think about taking them.

 

So again, thank you for all the responses, I`m looking forward to see some more Wastrel action^^

 

Edit:

oh, and @Gnomezilla, it actually was the Arcane Reservoir ep. 32, Ripples in Journalism, so, a Guild podcast

But thank you, the comment helped me sorting some other episodes out, as I vaguely remembered the order I was listening to them

[JDAntoine]

That's the spirit, never feel like you cannot play model X or Y.

On top of that I think even at tournament levels you should still pick whatever you feel comfortable with. You can certainly have an advantage if you break the expected norm for Guild McCabe aswell. I can't say that advantage at the given schemes will always be big enough but the less walked road isn't perse the worst.

I think the Saber trick can work fine, I think McCabe gives you the flexability in general not to worry too much about it. One thing remains, if you do thake Luna, also thake at least one Hound. Simly because your missing out on a massive benifit otherwise. Same also applies to Reporters and Guards, so this is another possible plus of the Wastrels, they don't 'force' you into 1-2 combinations. 

[ArcticPangolin]

I am a fan of Wastrels, but more from a flavour point than in-game effectiveness. McCabe and Lynch are the only 2 crews where I think they warrant serious consideration due to Bravado (McCabe's Upgrades and Lynch's Ace In The Hole), but in Guild I am looking to include them more for body count and the heal that they can bring. The key to making them shine is in learning to use their Cast-offs effectively.

Other reasons I like them are that I can play them as Wastrels, like I don't care; Ruthless doesn't come up every game but is always great when it does. Shooting Manipulative models in the back, ignoring Drinking Contests, hitting Terrifying models. Them and Pistoleros are pretty good Penanggalan hunters. They also don't really care about cover.

And if it takes 3 of the enemy's AP to kill one, then that's just gravy for a 4SS model.