Help me pick a faction/master

[esqulax]

I am completely new to the game and have only had a single intro game. Still I feel pretty confident that I want to give Malifaux a shot and I seem to have convinced a couple of my friends to do the same. The problem just is that I don't think I have ever had as much trouble picking a faction in any game ever as I have in Malifaux. There is just so much cool stuff all around. Although after many sleepless nights and months of soul searching I seem to have landed on either Neverborn or Outcasts. 

This is where I got stuck though, since I really like both factions. In other games I typically enjoy the fast glass cannon style or the summoning/resurrection attrition style, but I don't know which factions suits those roles best or if I will find some other style I enjoy more in this game. 

 

In Neverborn I really enjoy the dreamer since he seems to suit my attrition style, and I love the idea behind him. I am also digging a lot of the nightmare models, although I sometimes feel that the theme in Neverborn gets a little spread. 

I also really dig Titania. I don't know much about her rules, but she probably has what I consider the best looking crew box in the game.

 

In Outcats I am looking at the Viks, since I like their models and they seem to suit my glasscannony style from what I hear. I am also digging both Leveticus, with his steampunk necromancer style, and Hamelin, since the idea of swarming your opponents with rats and have them die to a thousand cuts really appeal to me. 

 

So to sum up, I pretty much feel like a kid in a candy store and I just want to grab a big bag and start filling it to the top, but for the sake of my limited painting time and limited budget, I think it would be for the best if I could narrow it down a bit, I just don't know how. Any suggestions? 

[GR1MMJOW 666]

Depending on how limited with time and budget you are some of the summoners could be rough. Buying all the extra models for them especially leveticus is a lot of models and a lot of painting. Thats is you want all the summoning options which is the most benificial along with the most costly. Ide start with a crew you like that doesnt summon, less time and money involved with models even after buying some extras for the crew. Once you learn the game with that crew youll know a lot more and know which dirrection to go next. 

[esqulax]

Good point, although what would I need for a Leveticus summoning crew? I was more worried about The Dreamer in that regard.

[GR1MMJOW 666]

He mainly summons abominations, he just has the largest hire pool in the game because he can hire non gremlin constructs which adds a lot of choices. I know people who have a whole case of malifaux that is just leveticus. He works good with his core group though if you do really like him and keep expanding your options. I prefer having different crews opposed to a whole money pit on one crew though. The dreamer comes with alps, daydreams and a coppiluis so pick up ude just need 3 more models for the rest of his summoning. Stiched together being one of those work very good in many nb crews. When you for sure choose a faction and expand to other boxes your choices will multiply just from the options in each box. If you got pandoras box and the dreamer for example the stiched together and insidious madness can work good in both. When i first started i found things like that to maximize my options. Ultimatly you need these options because you need to be flexible with the game strat and scheme. If you play with same crew and no extra options or masters people will counter them and you will struggle with certain games. Like i said though, once you learn the game and models youll know where to expand

[esqulax]

So I just read in another thread that both Hamelin and the Viks are considered NPEs. Is that something there is a wide agreement on? Cause if 2 of the 3 masters that got me to consider outcasts are annoying to play against that might really swing in Neverborns favor. 

[LunarSol]

24 minutes ago, esqulax said:

So I just read in another thread that both Hamelin and the Viks are considered NPEs. Is that something there is a wide agreement on? Cause if 2 of the 3 masters that got me to consider outcasts are annoying to play against that might really swing in Neverborns favor. 

I'm reasonably sure at this point every master in the game has been declared an NPE at one point or another.  Neverborn as a faction has had its moments for whatever that's worth, but I wouldn't dwell on it much.

If what you read was the somewhat recent Rat situation from the spring, that's actually been errata'd.  Hamelin's rats are excellent activation control, which is the basis for how Hamelin works, but when applied to the Viks it created a glass cannon that could be selectively deployed when the opponent didn't have models left to shatter it with.  Like I said though, that's been errata'd.

Personally, I wouldn't dwell too much on factions.  Pick a couple masters you like, even if they're from different factions and just play them.  Worst case scenario?  The Ronin from the Viks box end up being Mercenaries you hire in your Neverborn crews.

[esqulax]

I get what you mean, but I have read several places now that Hamelin is both annoying to play with and against. The complaint about the Viks were that they were so much glass cannons that they either murdered the opponents whole crew or died before they got to do anything which lead to some very one sided games. I have no idea if this is true.

But I know that people will always complain no matter what, but I still think there are some models that lend themselves to frustrating games more than others, which is something I would like to avoid since all of my friends, like myself, are just getting started. ( I am gonna wait with the annoying masters till they are so invested in the game that they can't quit ;))

[solkan]

53 minutes ago, esqulax said:

I get what you mean, but I have read several places now that Hamelin is both annoying to play with and against. The complaint about the Viks were that they were so much glass cannons that they either murdered the opponents whole crew or died before they got to do anything which lead to some very one sided games. I have no idea if this is true.

But I know that people will always complain no matter what, but I still think there are some models that lend themselves to frustrating games more than others, which is something I would like to avoid since all of my friends, like myself, are just getting started. ( I am gonna wait with the annoying masters till they are so invested in the game that they can't quit ;))

Well, to be completely cynical and go down the list, eliminating everything that could be potentially annoying:

• Hamelin
• The Viktorias
• All of the Book Four Masters (because they're annoyingly new)
• Every summoner (because summoners get models "for free")
• All of the ranged masters (because being able to stand and shoot for 3AP is overpowered)
• Brewmaster and Pandora because secondary effects are annoying.  Also eliminates Lynch, Lucius, and makes Zoraida borderline
• Tara, because burial and fast/slow is annoying
• Gremlins, because Reckless and/or killing your own models is annoying

I'm pretty sure that leaves

• Misaki
• Mei Feng
• Lilith (maybe)
• Ironsides
• Von Schill (I think)

as the "Just shut up and punch people" masters. 

[LunarSol]

Lylyth's terrain creation is extremely annoying.

Also, forgot to include Justice on that list.

[esqulax]

I am pretty sure you know what I mean though. I am not planning to boycott 90% of the masters in the game, but i'm just saying it might make more sense to start with one that isn't viewed as extremely frustrating to play against

[Franchute]

28 minutes ago, esqulax said:

I am pretty sure you know what I mean though. I am not planning to boycott 90% of the masters in the game, but i'm just saying it might make more sense to start with one that isn't viewed as extremely frustrating to play against

The following topic might be useful:

 

[LunarSol]

37 minutes ago, esqulax said:

I am pretty sure you know what I mean though. I am not planning to boycott 90% of the masters in the game, but i'm just saying it might make more sense to start with one that isn't viewed as extremely frustrating to play against

Yeah, I do know what you mean.  I think the reason there's a bit of a disconnect is that in general, Malifaux is a game in which winning isn't particularly straightforward, so impeding the opponent's progress can take on a number of different forms and frustrations.  Some of that becomes identifying which schemes and strats won't be frustrating against your opponent's crew which can often come from the school of hard knocks.  The masters that frustrate in schemes where you need to keep something alive are different than the ones that annoying in schemes where you have to reach a point of the board.

In general, I almost every master can do something frustrating; its often just a question of how fast players pick up on those tricks and how long it takes for other players to adapt to it.  None of them are so far off curve that they should prevent you from playing a master that really grabs your interest.

[Bazlord_Prime]

39 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

In general, I almost every master can do something frustrating; its often just a question of how fast players pick up on those tricks and how long it takes for other players to adapt to it.  None of them are so far off curve that they should prevent you from playing a master that really grabs your interest.

Agreed. And the main thing is, if you're all just starting out and learning the game, don't take anything to heart - be patient - and remember: Bad Things Happen...

There are many, many brutal tricks in the game, so as you learn the rules, and the specific ways that your Masters break and twist them, there are going to be moments that seem pretty OP and ludicrous. But mostly they occur because of a confluence of game factors, such as how successful your deployment was, what the terrain's doing to your synergies, what the Strat & Schemes are and how focused you are on achieving them (and/or on preventing your opponent from achieving theirs), and - of course - your hand/stones management and the cards you flip.  Black (& Red) Jokers are a thing...

If you're all learning together, you'll slowly get used to each other's tricks, and how to counter them. If one person is already pretty experienced, they will hopefully be viewing these games as a chance to encourage new players and grow the community (ie, their chances for more games with more varied opponents), rather than as an opportunity to stomp some Unsuspectings.  It would be best if they exercise some maturity and hold back on the really nasty tricks for a while, until they see that their opponent is getting the hang of the synergies etc, and needs a little more pressure on them to move to the next level.

[solkan]

3 hours ago, esqulax said:

I am pretty sure you know what I mean though. I am not planning to boycott 90% of the masters in the game, but i'm just saying it might make more sense to start with one that isn't viewed as extremely frustrating to play against

Here's the problem.  At GenCon I ordered Reva because she sounded straight forward and fun to use as a non-summoning Ressurectionist.  And I can point you to the Reva doom thread.

The people that play Hamelin are, in general, not soulless automatons who play a Master they joy out of.  But you can find threads saying otherwise.

That's why I wrote up the list that I did, the "What will people complain about" list.  And because this thread has a thread asking for help.

[-Loki-]

7 hours ago, esqulax said:

I am pretty sure you know what I mean though. I am not planning to boycott 90% of the masters in the game, but i'm just saying it might make more sense to start with one that isn't viewed as extremely frustrating to play against

Opponents will get over it quickly. Most masters are frustrating to play against the first time, because they all have various abilities that make them unique. For example, Lilith looks like a fairly straight forward glass cannon, but then she starts moving their models around, sprouting forests in opponents faces and flying through buildings to perform finishing blows.

Best thing to do is just look for a master you would enjoy. If you enjoy a more straight forward master like Perdita blowing enemies heads off, go for it. But if you want to try Jack Daw and his irritating shut down abilities or Pandora making you opponents models kill themselves through being super depressed, just do it. They will learn how to fight your chosen master.