Dreamer Starter

[Mephguour]

Getting back into the game and really interested in the Dreamer starter. I plan on playing my buddy who is also just starting with a starter ... but I have heard that Dreamer is not very playable with just the starter. Is that the general consensus?  Was hoping to ease into collecting but may have to go with another faction if that is the case. 

[GR1MMJOW 666]

Well the reason anyone would say that is probly due to him being a summoner. So you would have to buy all the models he can summon for him to be complete. Thats just for summoning though, still need more models for base crew

[solkan]

14 minutes ago, Mephguour said:

Getting back into the game and really interested in the Dreamer starter. I plan on playing my buddy who is also just starting with a starter ... but I have heard that Dreamer is not very playable with just the starter. Is that the general consensus?  Was hoping to ease into collecting but may have to go with another faction if that is the case. 

If you're only going to buy one box, and nothing else, buy the two player starter box.  That's eight models, four for each player, designed to be a decent start.

If you buy a master box, you're going to need to buy at least one more box for the box to work decently, and what you should buy is going to usually be complicated and involve "Which of this master's play styles do you want to use?" 

Otherwise, there are a LOT of masters who aren't particularly playable with just their box set.  Master boxes aren't designed to be well balanced starter sets, instead what they are (in almost all of the cases)

• The master
• The master's totem(s)
• A "side kick" which fits the theme
• Some lackeys which fit the theme

and it ends up being models selected by thematic value, not point cost.  The master boxes where those choices work out to be a good starting selection are indistinguishable from random chance.

See also this thread: 

Any master who summons is less likely to be playable with just the box set, except maybe Ramos, because the master's core ability is to let them summon some of those models in their box instead of hiring them.  And even Ramos being playable at just the box involves magnetizing bases and not being able to fully use his upgrades (not having the Electrical Creation model).

 

[hydranixx]

Surely one could play Dreamer with Restless Dreams relatively cheaply? He doesn't appear to need the same summoning pool to work with, and has a more straight forward goal - shoot with Dreamer, shoot a little bit more with Dreamer, then bring out a massive demon to eat some face, then shoot again with Dreamer for good measure once it goes away. Such a goal fits well with players with smaller model pools.

Could Restless Dreams Dreamer be played with minimal investment?

[Adran]

Just using the dreamer crew box is going to be a poor game. He has a low SS box, and if you want to get out Chompy then you need to be able to summon some of the models from his box. You will struggle to make a 25 ss list from just his crew box becasue Chompy is free. With a few purchases then yes you can make decent lists not going for his summoning upgrade, but I think just from the box he is a bad choice. Add in 2 blisters, and he is probably fine. 

[Ox Barrel]

On 9/28/2016 at 11:01 PM, hydranixx said:

Could Restless Dreams Dreamer be played with minimal investment?

Yep, I certainly did that when I first started playing. You're basically focusing on shooting and alp spamming the models you want to have Chompy go after. Coppelius is roaming the board scheme runner hunting or just scheme running himself. It... it doesn't work too great, though it is fine as a starter thing. Buying a couple small boxes can help like: Teddy, stitched, madnesses, lilitu & lelu, widow weaver, waldgeists, Mr Graves, Nekima, etc.

[Sirva]

On 9/29/2016 at 3:06 AM, GR1MMJOW 666 said:

Well the reason anyone would say that is probly due to him being a summoner. So you would have to buy all the models he can summon for him to be complete. Thats just for summoning though, still need more models for base crew

What i wonder is if that is enough. 

I've taken the dreamer starter box and 1x of anything he can summon or is vaguely a nightmare (maddness, stitched, weaver, lelu&lilitu,teddy)
Can be useful a second box (maybe the maddness?) or is a plain overkill?

[solkan]

8 hours ago, Sirva said:

What i wonder is if that is enough. 

I've taken the dreamer starter box and 1x of anything he can summon or is vaguely a nightmare (maddness, stitched, weaver, lelu&lilitu,teddy)
Can be useful a second box (maybe the maddness?) or is a plain overkill?

Well, Widow Weaver, Lelus and Lilutus are each Rare 1, so you're only going to need one of those each, either way.

Unless you went out of your way to get metal, or split a box, you probably end up with more than one Madness and Stitched.  One box of each is probably enough.  If you're just starting out, you get permission to order a second box when you hit that moment in a game where you're about to declare your summoning and go "Gosh, I wish I had a fourth one of those models."  You're probably more likely to want an extra box of Alps if you're just looking for stuff to summon after everything else.

If a person likes Teddy, two Teddy's are fun.  And then you start collecting all of the different Teddy sculpts, get the Pandora box for Baby Kade, and spiral out of control. 

[-Loki-]

12 hours ago, Ox Barrel said:

Yep, I certainly did that when I first started playing. You're basically focusing on shooting and alp spamming the models you want to have Chompy go after. Coppelius is roaming the board scheme runner hunting or just scheme running himself. It... it doesn't work too great, though it is fine as a starter thing. Buying a couple small boxes can help like: Teddy, stitched, madnesses, lilitu & lelu, widow weaver, waldgeists, Mr Graves, Nekima, etc.

Those boxes are what you want for a summoning Dreamer too.

The issue with the Dreamer is when you play a summoning Dreamer, you want what he normally brings but more. When you play a Restless Dreams Dreamer,  you'll generally bring Teddies, Stitched Togethers and Insidious Madnesses in different combinations depending on Schemes and Strategies, with some others littered in as needed - like you suggested Nekima, Graves, Waldgeists, Lelu, Lilutu, Coppelius, etc. When you play a Dreams of Pain Dreamer, you'll likely leave the Insidious Madnesses and Stitched Togethers for Summoning and bring more of the expensive models which are harder to summon or incapable of being summoned. But your general pool of models is going to be very similar.

Starting Dreamer cheaply isn't impossible because his other upgrades focus him in a different direction so he's not only a summoner, but it's still a bit more expensive than non summoning masters. You'll want a box of Insidous Madnesses for scheme running, a Teddy for a secondary beater when Lord Chompy Bits isn't in play. If you want to spend it, a box of Stitched Togethers as general attacking models. Those four purchases are a good Dreamer start without going all in on every option he can take. You'll likely only use 1-2 of the Insidious Madnesses and Stitched Togethers at a time, but the whole boxes are there for if you want to try a summoning Dreamer.

[Four_N_Six]

I would say that it depends on what you want to do. Personally, I don't like summoning dreamer and I play his other build, so I don't need all these other nightmare models to make the crew work. It isn't ideal to just use his starter, but it doesn't mean you'll have a bad game. Especially just starting out and trying the game.

What people seem to be forgetting is that your friend is also only getting a master box, which means they will be just as handicapped as you are. So for just starting out and getting your feet wet, just the master box should be fine until your friend decided to get more, then the power balance will shift in his favor a bit. 

[-Loki-]

Well, just using his starter and hiring Alps and Daydreams without upgrades you're at 27 points. So yes, you can do it. However, you're kind of neutering yourself since Daydreams and Alps are Insignificant, and you don't have any more to summon until they die which is built in to the Dreamer and Coppelius, so you'll have a real uphill battle compared to other non-summoning crews. Unfortunately they built his crew box with summoning in mind, but there wasn't any other way to do it unless they left Alps out entirely and put Insidious Madnesses in his starter, but then Copellius and the Dreamer would have been neutered a bit until you bought an Alps box, since summoning Alps is built into certain triggers for them.