Starting the game. One simple question

[Elgrun]

Hi Forum,

I want to start the game. My decision was to start with Pandora.

Now I went over my head and ordered the Pandora Box and Mr. Graves (Teddy was sold out).

After that I went on the Pull my finger wiki, and there it seems that Mr. Graves doesn't work for Pandora.

 

The rules are still quite confusing for me, and the only two list builder I found were not clear on that matter.

 

So do I have to cancel Mr. Graves from my order or am I good?

[Cinnamon Bear]

I can't say whether or not he's good with Pandora, but he's Neverborn and can be hired by her no problem. From what I gather he's one of the more popular models and finds his way into many lists.

[Elgrun]

Thank you.

Then I am relieved.

[Four_N_Six]

He'll be useful in other crews if you keep going into Neverborn. Until you have more models available, anything you can get into your crew is better than nothing at all. Pandora is a rough master to start the game with, but she was my first, too, and she's still my favorite 

[Elgrun]

Candy and Kade sold me on her. (Colette was a close second though. Too bad there's no old Colette box anymore)

Guess I'll open Pandoras Box. 

Lucky me I've play(ed) quiet a few Tabletop games so I am not too worried about her not being the noobfriendliest of the Masters. 

[lusciousmccabe]

Graves is a good model and I'm sure will find a place in your lists. He doesn't have any specific synergy with Pandora but is a solid model in his own right and can be a great help to anything you want shunted up the field faster.

Also his best Friend is Mr Tannen, who does fit in quite nicely with Pandora's typical theme.

[AverageBoss]

When you get around to getting Teddy, he and Graves will be BFFs.

Graves, and a Doppelganger can get Teddy into melee turn 1 if you wish.

Speaking of which, Doppelgangers are amazing.

[Twg]

Mr Graves has an a great ability of pushing models further up the board. Pandora wants to be close so any assistance there is welcome. He is a fairly strong beater and is a decent choice. He will struggle later once you have more models though.

[lusciousmccabe]

1 hour ago, Twg said:

He will struggle later once you have more models though.

How so? Do you mean in terms of competing versus other beaters? Because while he's not as killy as something like Teddy you don't bring him for the same reason. 

If anything I'd say he becomes more useful as you get more models for him to throw around and/or protect. 

[Twg]

I just don't see him in my meta (South/Middle of England) in either causal or tournament play with Pandora. I may not have specified that in the original post, but the topic was specifically about his use of Pandora.

[lusciousmccabe]

1 hour ago, Twg said:

I just don't see him in my meta (South/Middle of England) in either causal or tournament play with Pandora. I may not have specified that in the original post, but the topic was specifically about his use of Pandora.

Gotcha.

I think with the starter box he's pretty decent though. He can give Candy or Pandora a boost to set up for a Paralyze or early charge and you can countercharge models who engage Graves with Kade, or pitch them into him for some horrible Pounces. 

[Pikciwok]

Add the Doppelganger and you'll have the most efficient Pandora Delivery System available.

Turn 1 paralyzing <3

[chryspainthemum]

I mean, Pandora hardly needs a delivery system... 8 inches of movement for 0 is ridiculous.

[lusciousmccabe]

She does need to be in range to use that though, so you can save her some AP early on by getting someone else to move her. That's assuming you don't have something else that would benefit more from the boost. 

[asrian]

Graves, due to his push, his black blood, his hard to kill, and his decent attacks, is very good with Pandora. This is especially true with Doppelganger thrown in who can mimic his push. As stated it can be used as an effective delivery system for Pandora (and a free movement again for her or someone else if Doppelganger copies it). He's well rounded enough also to be useful in a number of strats/schemes due to the ability to hit effectively, push models out of turf wars, off markers, or into markers/areas you want to screw with the opponent.

As a second purchase for Pandora though, I would highly recommend Doppelganger. She is the #1 most hired model (to me at least, though most neverborn players include her most of the time) in a neverborn crew. She is a tool box and a half.

[Twg]

I see the doppelganger everywhere...Graves...no.

[Kirby]

I use Graves all the time.  It's easy to say "Oh, Pandora can just 0 for 8" of movement", but that means the opponent was initially in range to begin with and you have the Tome or stone and high cards to do that.  If you bring other slow or AP intensive models then you can push them around as well.  Combined with a Doppelganger, you get a lot of out-of-activation movement to get your things in place or out of danger or pushing your opponent away from their necessary positions.

[Twg]

I'm not denying that Graves is very useful. Only that in my opinion and experience I don't often, if ever, see him taken with Pandora. I think your right in that you can't gauantee getting a model within 12 and 2 within 16 when she activates or having the correct suit so Graves has his place.

[chryspainthemum]

Oh first turn movement help is nice, and Graves is an excellent model overall. I've been using Lilitu lately because I love the 4" engagement. In regards to the thread, Graves is definitely a useful purchase.

[Bodiless]

Graves is also a great model to carry Retribution's Eye. Ml 6, min damage 3, ignores armor. He is also a Mimic, so if you have Doppel with Useless Duplications he can benefit from that. Or you can swap the upgrades between the models, both builds work pretty well in my experience.

[Elgrun]

I got my models during the week (No shelter here, Mr. Graves and Teddy (found one)), and painted them up. 

No I need to get my first game in to get a feel for the game. 

How do models work, do I take a third sorrow or do I buy upgrades. I enjoy learning a new game. Especially with awesome miniatures in an awesome setting. 

[EnternalVoid]

I have used Mr. Graves several times with Pandora, enough so that some time back I painted him up for one you had to have painted models for.  That said he is far from an auto include but I have found his flexible role useful.  Half the time he pushes Pandora the other half he pushes a Beckoner First turn, who then Lures another model, pushes from trigger, then lures the same or another model and pushes from trigger.  What is most often competing with him for a spot is the illuminated, as with a Beckoner it gives me something to make my opponent nervous about.

For Sorrows, generally I take only one or two.  They are not very tough and fold pretty easy so I try not to tie to much points into them.  I like having one for the added threat of overlapping misery auras and the surprise paralyze attack late in the turn that they forget about from times to time.  Two have been when I know the enemy is going to group up and I am fairly certain I can tank the crew, but most often I prefer only taking one so I can take other toys.

There are a lot of different approaches for getting your feet wet as a lot of it comes down to personal preferences.  I like heavy research followed by hitting the ground running.  I will read the rules, maybe watch games or videos, and then drop strait into playing the game.  Others though prefer to play smaller intro games or have someone walk them through their first game.  I would suggest thinking about what way you learn best and applying it to your first games with an understanding and open opponent.

[Ergonomic Cat]

 

I got my models during the week (No shelter here, Mr. Graves and Teddy (found one)), and painted them up. 

No I need to get my first game in to get a feel for the game. 

How do models work, do I take a third sorrow or do I buy upgrades. I enjoy learning a new game. Especially with awesome miniatures in an awesome setting. 

I'm all theory craft, but generally it seems like you need to choose what you're going to do with Pandora - there's the "melee" Pandora, who gets up in people's faces and uses their own abilities against them (or just does area damage and forces WP duels for more damage and moves) or there's the "paralyze" Pandora, who is going to be focused on using The Voice to paralyze a number of models a game.  The box seems to be much more melee focused, and in that case 2 Sorrows seems like the max.  You can keep them alive with Pandora and Candy, and just murder people with failed WP duels, 1 HP at a time.