Sell me on Hodgepodge Emissary

[daniello_s]

Our Emissary will be available at the end of the month and I'm thinking about getting him for my Levi and Jack. 

Do you have any experience with running this model in their crews? Can you share any insights ?

[Freman]

Well I already have him on pre-order, but I haven't proxied him for any games so I have nothing to say about that.

[SlackerLM]

Kyle from Schemes and Stones has commented that he has used him with Jack to good result.

Levi's use of him is to ride the Horsemen of he Apocalypse... Until that gets foam footballed! 

[Freman]

That use of the Emissary for Leveticus is specifically so he can do his four horseman list, so I don't think it'll be cuddled. It's a low count list of elite models who aren't particularly tough until about turn three. It's not a problem.

[Nukemouse]

The horseman list is more for fun than anything approaching a "powerful" list. Very few schemes would leave you thinking "man i really need to run the horsemen!".

The Emissary can hand out some very useful upgrades though and his ability to make enemies tormented will really benefit a daw crew, though i would focus on emissary only when i was bringing things like montresor, C7 members etc since that is what the curse wants you to use. Generally when i look at him my first thought is the ability to attach that upgrade back to Von Schill looks good and throwing upgrades onto strongarm suits and similar models would be valuable. With his generic upgrade he might have use for Levi but i don't remember what that upgrade was.

[Blacks85]

Haven't try it yet.

On the paper, I believe that with Von Schill is crazy strong.

Do not randomize into an engagement? Is super strong....BUT have a free "The shirt comes off" every turn? It's crazy, crazy overpowered....a Healing flip with a PLUS onto a hard to kill sturdy master? That has a 2 MIN healing AND makes a 12 WP HORROR in 8"?

That must be...an error? in my opinion. It makes no sense, at all.

I agree that playing with Levy is more for fun than for competitive play, no idea on how will impact jack daw.

On other hand, it might be good with Tara. You'll have also the scion which is - tricky - but useful in my opinion, so finally the Tara crew might finally have a scope with the bury mechanics.

[daniello_s]

The problem with Von Schill's crew is that Emissary will need to stick close to the old man and considering the fact that Schill is mostly in the heat of the battle then it may made Emissary vulnerable - I don't expect opponent to wait to pull this trick too often

[boots468]

Yeah, it's also another card-discard effect (Freikorps already have a lot of them, especially if you take I Pay Better, and the Emissary's natural (0) push is a card-discard too) and is another 10ss on a model which doesn't benefit from his aura (I find it hard not to take Johan & Effigy with VS, so that's 20ss already).

I think if you are planning on taking the emissary with Von Schill, you have to change up the crew quite a lot from what you normally take, it's tricky to just substitute the Emissary in for Lazarus/Hannah/Anna/Strongarm (man, the Friekorps have a lot of 10ss options...). You kind of need Engage at Will on VS too (take two (0) actions) so he can both strip and finish the cur each turn, which doesn't have a lot of synergy with many models other than Rusty with her upgrade (which is expensive in Stones and card) or the Steam Trunk (who I struggle to get much out of ever, and is yet more card-discard effects and also another model that doesn't use VS' buff aura).

It certainly has merit, but it's trickier to make work than you'd expect.

[Jafar]

I think that you are already aware of this topic, I shared some of my thoughts there:

But to answer your question.
For me Outcasts emissary is not soo good as it may look. Mostly because he has strong 10ss alternatives (Rusty, Lazarus, Bishop etc.)

Based on my experience, I will try to describe his use in Levi an Jack.
Let's focus on upgrades:
- companion: easy to use when you have two models close each other and want make sure that enemy model will die. In Jack Daw nurse has it, In Levi Belle has it too. Does having two models with it, is good? In my games never had any idea when to use it.
- don't mind me: really good on 3 ap model, A&D, bishop. Also can lead to some nasty tricks: give it to Void wretch, Winged Plague, 1 AP to move across building, fence etc. second AP to drop scheme marker next to enemy.
- reactivate :nice combo with Big Jake, kill him on turn 4 and get him back on turn 5. Pure gold in tournaments when you have limited time. You an reactivate Bishop and have 6 AP in last round, Bishop can die, because it's last turn. Also can be used on chap scheme runner to have 4 AP. 
- regeneration: it's nice on Sue, you can draw cards without healing him, also nice combo with HTK on him. Very good on Wrath in Jack Daw, Wrath can heal with his attack, then add regeneration and Horror duels, SS prevention, enemy will think twice before attacking him. Also nice on SAS, makes it even harder to kill him.

Jack Daw upgrade:
- nice to have one more enemy tormented model, curse is also nice, great on some nasty gremlins (no more crazy cheating ;P )

Levi upgrade:
- mostly for fun

General upgrade:
- I don't play with many minions, so for me it's bad. Maybe some Levi list with 2x Belle, 2x trapper etc. ?

Emissary himself:
Not bad stats (6DF/WP and good amount of WD also HTK). Some kind of healing, can use two different 0 AP actions.
- 0 AP scheme marker drop, AWESOME, moreover it has free push
- attack action, its CA without not worst dmg track (could be 1 min dmg), great auto trigger (discard card or gain slow)
- remove destiny action, kind bad. Now in GG16 schemes you can't sometimes have scheme markers close to other friendly scheme markers (i believe it's 4'' or 2'' depending on scheme) so you can block VP if badly pushed or marker placed

To remember
- In Jack Daw and Levi you won't have too many two 0 AP actions to use each turn.
- it's 10ss , so you won't have place for many other expensive models
- it won't kill things, so other models have to do it (and you already have one expensive model spot used)

Overall, It can be used in Jack Daw crew, it's nice combo in lists where you want to drain enemy hand and make him slow / paralyzed etc.
Bring something like; Jack, Emissary, Wrath, Trapper, Jakuma, Guilty, Nurse (few ss left on upgrades). And watch as enemy is unable to do anything

In Levi he can act as tricky scheme runner and drop upgrades on models. I don use Bone / Iron upgrades, but maybe some nice combos are there to discover? (Bete Noire, reactivate and not die? don't remember wording on her card / or SoulStone Miner with Regen?)

 

[daniello_s]

Thanks Jafar. Your post is a pure gold to me.

55 minutes ago, Jafar said:

But to answer your question.
For me Outcasts emissary is not soo good as it may look. Mostly because he has strong 10ss alternatives (Rusty, Lazarus, Bishop etc.)

I (sadly) share similar feeling to yours on our Emissary...

[SinJ]

The Emissary is pretty fantastic with Hamelin, adding a second source of ranged blighted is extremely useful. In general if you need a model built to run schemes the Emissary is going to make a big difference. Running a set up with I Pay Better on Hannah and Sewer king on Hamelin his (0) doesn't drain your hand too much.

Otherwise I have mostly played him in my four horsemen lists as a proxy as he's gone on the first turn. The Horsemen list in general is actually quite strong. The Rider's speed and ability to push into and out of combat is extremely useful for different schemes. Usually your opponent can/will kill a rider around turn two if they want but the remaining three will usually carry me through the game. Leveticus in the four horsemen is a speed bump for your opponent to overcome in the early turns. He will generally go hunting scheme runners while I keep the Horsemen and the waifs safe.

[Jafar]

8 minutes ago, SaintScythus said:

The Emissary is pretty fantastic with Hamelin

Also really good in Tara, thanks to his 0 AP bury, now I can bury models summoned by Karina* or big beater.

Outcast emissary is not bad model, but not mandatory choice for every master / enemy / schemes. For example in most cases against Ressers I would take Taelor or Bishop for 10 SS.

*It won't be buried again at end of turn, so will stay on board easy way to save card and AP on Tara, otherwise needed to unbury that model.

[Khoregard]

17 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

Haven't try it yet.

On the paper, I believe that with Von Schill is crazy strong.

Do not randomize into an engagement? Is super strong....BUT have a free "The shirt comes off" every turn? It's crazy, crazy overpowered....a Healing flip with a PLUS onto a hard to kill sturdy master? That has a 2 MIN healing AND makes a 12 WP HORROR in 8"?

That must be...an error? in my opinion. It makes no sense, at all.

I agree that playing with Levy is more for fun than for competitive play, no idea on how will impact jack daw.

On other hand, it might be good with Tara. You'll have also the scion which is - tricky - but useful in my opinion, so finally the Tara crew might finally have a scope with the bury mechanics.

Consider also that hannah can use von schills shirt too, then have the hodgepodge reload it so the man himself can tear it off also! BWAHAHA

[Jordon]

I sort of feel like the emissary is mediocre simply based on it's own merits - especially when compared to the other emissaries. However I do find the the hodgepodge has some excellent upgrades associated with it.

Even though I haven't tried it with the Vik's, I think it gets a very powerful (0) and it's passive buff is also quite good, however it does seem to promote a more ranged oriented list. Also being able to give blood Vik the reactive condition it pretty bonkers. It also works amazing on the one time sister minion, as does it work awesome with ronin, who can reactivate and commit seppuku

Tara also seems like a good fit for more burry options. Also I imagine the regen will go a long way with the scion, as would re-activating Karina's summons so they don't clog up the burry pipe and prevent further summoning/glimpse on the following turn.

I actually play the 4 horsemen build all the time with Levi. In fact it's the only version of Levi I have ever played, or own for that matter. It's extremely challenging, but extremely rewarding once you figure out how to run it. Giving companion, regen, or reactivate to one of the rider's can be a big deal, especially late game. Even with the recent errata, I still think it's totally viable in the proper schemes.

Lastly is probably the best in my opinion as Jack Daw loves this model. The extra curse is so amazing and not having to waste Jack's AP to use it makes it even better. The emissary itself has nifty discard trigger that synergies well with many of the other discard effects Jack lists are capable of. Slow is another hidden killer in jack lists as it prevent's models from being able to remove curses. Just an all round great inclusion. 

I'm not familiar with Hamelin or Schill, but it looks like good inclusions for those masters as well. 

[Blacks85]

5 hours ago, Khoregard said:

Consider also that hannah can use von schills shirt too, then have the hodgepodge reload it so the man himself can tear it off also! BWAHAHA

Yep

The first time I've noticed it...I thought she didn't have to discard upgrade as well. Unfortunately...turned out she has to!

3 hours ago, Jordon said:

I sort of feel like the emissary is mediocre simply based on it's own merits - especially when compared to the other emissaries.

I disagree on this, In my opinion, the very biggest leak of Outcast is the absence of scheme runners and push...This models have both.

This model can throw a scheme marker after a push with 1 of the 2 (0) actions...that's unique in outcast.

Also the (0) action with the destined condition? It can win games for you in my opinion. You can disengage people, reposition them and place marker for many schemes (Set up, detonate the charges, convict labor - ~impossible with outcast, ....)

And it's a very tough model because with Df6, 10 Wd, HTK...not easy to pin down....with a ranged attack and a built-in discard/slow mechanics.

Moreover it brings you the "Don't mind me" trinket which is very, very strong for schemes as well.

I believe this would be a very good addition to outcast, despite being not a big beater...but you have abundance of them in outcast !

 

[admiralvorkraft]

All those "impossible" schemes are really easy with Jack Daw, but I agree that the Emissary is very good. 

But then I'm on the record that all the Emissaries are above the curve, over designed, and easy to abuse. So the Hodgepodge might not come out on top in a straight comparison with, say, the Carrion or Mysterious Emissaries. Then again, giving Johan reactivate and companion is as surefire way as any I know to score A Quick Murder.

[Patzer]

I love the shadow emissary with conflux of thunder. It will be interesting to see how it fares with the hodgepodge. It should become quite slippery with another 0 push, and should be quite able to do a lot of scheme marker schemes in large by itself. Could be ok. Will need a ton of protection though. 

[daniello_s]

Thanks for your input guys. I think you sold me this model

[daniello_s]

I'm still waiting for a blueprint for our Emissary... Come on Wyrd guys! You can do it!!!

[Erik1978]

On 12/7/2016 at 10:38 AM, Blacks85 said:

 It's crazy, crazy overpowered....a Healing flip with a PLUS onto a hard to kill sturdy master? 

Hard to kill? Doesn't von schill's "a legend to live up to" only provide the improved hard to kill to OTHER friendly models?

 

[Patzer]

1 hour ago, Erik1978 said:

Hard to kill? Doesn't von schill's "a legend to live up to" only provide the improved hard to kill to OTHER friendly models?

 

You are correct, but VS can still take Survivalist and get Hard to Kill for himself too.

[Freman]

And he should. It kept him in the fight in a four round battle royale with Ironsides in one game.

[Blacks85]

On 7/13/2016 at 3:29 PM, admiralvorkraft said:

But then I'm on the record that all the Emissaries are above the curve, over designed, and easy to abuse. 

I don't agree with this, I mean - on first look they might seem overpowered.

However, after few games I've found it pretty balanced - little bit underpowered cause of the missing synergies. I'm speaking of the gremlin one, at least.

Don't know about the others...but this outcast emissary looks fine as well imo.

[Erik1978]

I've used carrion emissary in at least 10 games. He has performed okay but he is certainly not auto include.

I tried hodgepodge once, with von schill, there is a LOT of competition when it comes to spending 10 SS on an Outcast Enforcer.

[daniello_s]

Yes, sadly (or rather not sadly) there is...