fauxreigner Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Hi Guilders, As an aspiring tournament player, I'd like to collect some information from the more experienced players about the pool of models you tend to draw from in tournaments. In particular, how many different masters do you go armed with, and how many do you find yourself drawing from on a regular basis? Do you equip yourself with every Guild master, and choose entirely based on the strat and schemes? Or do you have a core group (say 2-3) that you feel comfortable with, and plug any weaknesses through other models in the crew? As some background, I went to my first major tournament a month ago - a 2 day event with 5 games. I took only Perdita, as she was the only Master I had enough experience with to play competitively. I managed to do pretty well, coming 7th out of 50 players (4W-1L) and was the top Guild player. However, I noticed several weaknesses and know I will need a more diverse master pool if I want to push up towards the podium spots. I've recently started playing a lot of McMourning, who fills the gap with heavy interact-based scheme pools that Perdita struggles with. But I feel like I'm still some way from being able to switch between the two at will, in a fast-paced and competitive tournament environment. So just looking for some accounts of how many (and which) masters you tend to call upon during a tournament, and how long it took you to become comfortable switching between that many masters in fast-paced play? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 I tend to bring around 20 masters or so. I could play all my games with just Sonnia, Perdita and McCabe though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnternalVoid Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 For most tournaments I favor having 2-3 masters depending on how much ground I feel each cover. I feel it lets me focus better on list construction in the limited time that you sometimes get at events for list construction after finding out your opponent's faction, seeing your table, and getting Strat and schemes. Also as often bigger events I have gone to have been painted models only it can shrink my list of models to paint before hand down. As for how long I have been comfortable swapping between them? Pretty quickly but I am the sort that to pass the time somewhere will tinker around in my head on ideas. It has never taken me very long to get a master down. If anything the problem becomes if the Strat/schemes don't have a clear preference, and the opponent faction does not have a hard counter option, I see the viability of masters to well and find myself swaying back and forth on which one might offer that advantage. For Guild the masters I generally take for Tournaments are Perdita and McCabe, partially because those are the only two that have fully painted options. While Hoffman is painted not all my constructs are *I am looking at you Rail Golem and Miss Step*. The other masters have similar issues as I have not got either them, their totems, or certain models to go with them painted yet. Other factions are in similar boats as I can only paint often what I feel like. Non-tournament, that is a lot more what ever I feel like. Generally I will get an itch for a certain faction or master and just go with that, only jumping off the plan if someone has a request or the Strat/schemes are completely anti-master of choice *Which is why I always have a back up master I want to play too*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I just bring McCabe, I don't think there is any pool he can't handle. You could bring another master like Sonnia to scare the enemy into building hit or miss lists countering her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 11 minutes ago, Ludvig said: I just bring McCabe, I don't think there is any pool he can't handle. You could bring another master like Sonnia to scare the enemy into building hit or miss lists countering her. Don't know about pools, but I feel like there are lists he can't handle too well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 1 minute ago, Myyrä said: Don't know about pools, but I feel like there are lists he can't handle too well. You're probably right. I've never placed super high with him but I haven't placed better with anyone else. In my experience he can handle most defenses with his sabre and can run schemy pools like there was no tomorrow while tying up enemy beaters with df/wp 9/8 on plus flips from promises and Luna's defensive bark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ludvig said: You're probably right. I've never placed super high with him but I haven't placed better with anyone else. In my experience he can handle most defenses with his sabre and can run schemy pools like there was no tomorrow while tying up enemy beaters with df/wp 9/8 on plus flips from promises and Luna's defensive bark. He can't really do any of those things against Perdita or Sonnia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 1 minute ago, Myyrä said: He can't really do any of those things against Perdita or Sonnia. Haven't faced a lot of guild with him actually. Perdita's insane push game should be a challenge but Sonnia can't be that hard to tie up. The lists I've seen her in have mostly had Francisco with Hermanos as the main pusher so targeting him first should sort it somewhat. If he used it to push her up turn 1 McCabe himself should be able to puth them both in his own engagement on turn 1 so he can't push her out even if you fail to kill him. Engage Sonnia further by reactivate-nimbling a Warden in btb on turn 1 so a single austringer can't push her out. I am of course counting on a board where I can do alits/CL without ever being within LoS from the enemy half of the board since my group takes LoS-blocking terrain very seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, Ludvig said: Haven't faced a lot of guild with him actually. Perdita's insane push game should be a challenge but Sonnia can't be that hard to tie up. The lists I've seen her in have mostly had Francisco with Hermanos as the main pusher so targeting him first should sort it somewhat. If he used it to push her up turn 1 McCabe himself should be able to puth them both in his own engagement on turn 1 so he can't push her out even if you fail to kill him. Engage Sonnia further by reactivate-nimbling a Warden in btb on turn 1 so a single austringer can't push her out. I am of course counting on a board where I can do alits/CL without ever being within LoS from the enemy half of the board since my group takes LoS-blocking terrain very seriously. Unless your group uses some really weird terrain, being able to complete those schemes without being seen most likely also means that you won't be able to reach Sonnia's side of the table easily because of Flame Walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 31 minutes ago, Myyrä said: Unless your group uses some really weird terrain, being able to complete those schemes without being seen most likely also means that you won't be able to reach Sonnia's side of the table easily because of Flame Walls. Fair point. For a lot of tournament tables I have seen I would strongly consider Sonnia for my tag team since she should do well on stuff where McCabe doesn't. I Guess Perdita would too. If you had to exclude one of your three preferred masters which would it be? If you had to play a single master for an entire tournament which would it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Just now, Ludvig said: Fair point. For a lot of tournament tables I have seen I would strongly consider Sonnia for my tag team since she should do well on stuff where McCabe doesn't. I Guess Perdita would too. If you had to exclude one of your three preferred masters which would it be? If you had to play a single master for an entire tournament which would it be? I would exclude Sonnia first, but that might be mostly because I have played her the least. If I played a tournament using only a single (guild) master, Perdita would be my first choice. I have actually played single master tournaments with both Perdita and Sonnia. I'm also fairly sure I have never lost a game with either of them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Basically, I'd suggest trying every master, but when it comes to a tournament, only bringing the ones you're comfortable with. Truth be told, you're not playing all 7 on the day and you can get yourself in trouble if you get too concerned with having the perfect tool for every job. This is doubly true when you consider we have two perfectly good hammers and, honestly, everything does kind of look like a nail to Guild. Sonnia and Perdita are very much cut from the same cloth. I learned Sonnia first and found Perdita easy to pick up afterwards. I still lean towards Sonnia as she's the master I bought the game for, but Perdita is a good tool to have if you think you're going to hit a crew of elite, heavily armored models. McCabe is well worth learning as he's probably one of the more trick filed masters. He's quite complicated though and needs far more practice than the others. Hoffman is similar in that regard and can help keep your opponent's honest as his crew looks very different from the rest. McMourning is on the border for me. I think he can be a strong tool in the box, but I don't have the practice with him. Lady J and Lucius are sadly the two I just don't think quite do enough to make the grade. They're fun enough, but I can't honestly think of a situation where either would be my first choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I have had a lot more success with McCabe than with Sonnia. With him I can take a joke list with models like Samael or an executioner and do better than with Sonnia. I always overextend Sonnia and get her slaughtered or engaged and I haven't been able to figure out what to bring for the rest of the list to keep going after she's dead. @LunarSol What is it you found complicated to learn about McCabe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Just getting the proper positioning to set up passing chains, get the upgrades back, keep the promises bonuses, stuff like that mixed with specifics of activation order. He's not THAT complicated; just significantly more so than the two point and shoot Masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I havent played Perdita but you might be right about her, she looks really fun to play. I don't agree that he's trickier than Sonnia but that might be something wrong with me. I just always check his bubbles before ending a move and I keep markers on the bases so I see which model has upgrades and need to go before him. I usually just pass them between two models each turn. If I miscalculate and get charged by the wrong enemy I can just push out with no difficulty. If they manage to kill the horse I know I'll have a really good counter charging model and McCabe can tie stuff up with his 3"-ranged slowfranting whip, I'm almost hoping for him to get killed midgame. Sonnia needs to keep really good track of enemy threat ranges including triggers and every friendly push in the enemy crew since she's dead if anything at all ever reaches her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I would go Lady Justice and another-master-if-neutralize-the-leader-is-in-the-pool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauxreigner Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I'd agree that Perdita is a great choice if restricting yourself to single master at a tournament, especially for newer players. Her fast learning curve is probably the reason I managed to place well in my first tournament. But I do worry that blunt objects like her are one of the easier things for top-tier players to deal with? She's not exactly unpredictable. I'm glad to hear that McCabe has a pretty consistent role in a tournament arsenal, I find him very interesting and was already considering him as my third master. I think I want to try running solo-McMourning at my next major tournament. I don't expect this to go as well as solo-Perdita, but I think it's a necessary step in becoming comfortable with him in competitive play and learning his weaknesses. After that I'll try switching between the two based on strat and scheme pools, while gradually introducing McCabe. Follow-up question: to what degree do you consider opponent's faction when choosing your master? What do you consider as the really bad matchups for Perdita, Sonnia, McCabe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I think Arcanists are risky for Sonnia due to bigger-than-usualy amounts of Armour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauxreigner Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 15 minutes ago, trikk said: I think Arcanists are risky for Sonnia due to bigger-than-usualy amounts of Armour. I'd also guess that a crew full of Freikorps Suits is her worst nightmare? But would that be enough to discourage taking her against Outcasts in general? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Well, a crew full of Freikorp Suits mostly handicaps the Outcast player Hannah with Von Schill might be an issue, but if you hit them directly you still deal damage and you can splash onto non-Suit models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Kind of off topic but is the title of this thread annoying anyone else? Or making them think that "How masters" should be some sort of new slogan? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 You're not terribly likely to see a full Friekorps list in Outcasts though you'll often be annoyed by Librarians and a Trapper or two. Both are quite killable via direct damage though. Sonnia is pretty decent at dealing with a lot of random Outcast things. Her blasts can sneak around corners and deal with things like Waifs and Rats, particularly with some Austringer support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 A lot depends on you as a player. I'll bring all my options, but I have a friend who played Sonnia for a year, and did fine. (Better than me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauxreigner Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 36 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said: Kind of off topic but is the title of this thread annoying anyone else? Oops, good catch. How did I not notice that? Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 You know, now I kind of miss it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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