Adventure time with oiran?

[Ludvig]

Hey!

I usually play McCabe on the "right" side of the law so I have no clue about his illegal dealings with certain shady syndicates. In a recent trade deal I got two oiran thrown in and those models are so beatiful I could consider going rogue just to get a reason to paint them. I know they have a rather shady reputation and I've looked over the card and not been extremely impressed.

I figured someone here would have tried it. Can McCabe make the poor girls work? If you give 'em a sabre and manage to get fast and focused on them with the free upgrade that also synergises well with promises they should be able to wreck some face.

Are they strong / workable but not the optimal choice / still suck? Any opinions would be welcome.

[SinJ]

To be honest McCabe makes pretty much anything great. Glowing Sabre is an amazing upgrade. Oiran really come into their own with the Hidden Agenda upgrade. You could absolutely get work out of Oiran combined with McCabe's pushes and buffs. They are solid all-rounders with some slightly different tech and abilities than other minions in their point bracket. I think you could pretty easily build a list with a couple Oiran and Ama No Zako with Hidden Agenda and Smoke Grenades/Recalled Training as a solid core.

[InvokeChaos]

I think they get a bad wrap. I love oiran.

Their WP buff in an aura is fantastic.  

They can be surprisingly hard to get away from models. I have had them lock up some pretty beefy stuff with their trigger that prevents them from being attacked.

The fast and focused from Hidden Agenda really helped shore up a lot of what I would have called their big weakness, which was not landing that attack and not having the speed necessary to be scheme runners.

The lure is a "trap". It's very situational as you need the mask, but can be SO clutch and points in the game.

And SaintScythus said it best... honest makes pretty much anything great. But I would expand that strangemetal shirt on an oiran is rude, because then you have a minion that is granting +1wp AND armor1.

[Ludvig]

Thanks!

[Rathnard]

I'm just going to +1 what's already been said. People tend to overlook the Oiran, but she's very legit. Lure can be great to just pull a friendly model somewhere but even if you don't have the crow, against enemy models it's a threat purely for the high Ca and the inherent strength of push effects. With Hidden Agenda they become great scheme runners too, so there's that. 

[Rurouni Benshin]

21 hours ago, InvokeChaos said:

The lure is a "trap". It's very situational as you need the mask, but can be SO clutch and points in the game.

You actually need the Crow to make it work.  But I agree, that the "Lure" isn't very reliable.  Fortunately for McCabe, he doesn't rely on Crows to get his better abilities/triggers to work, so you can conserve the higher crow cards in your hand if needbe.  Oiran are my Go-To minion when I'm running a Last Blossom heavy crew (usually with Misaki and Yamaziko).  With Hidden Agenda on a good beatstick, you'll be likely to get quite a bit of mileage out of them.

[Yvarre]

Also, Disguise can be a really great AP sink if your opponent wants to try to go after them.  I really like an Oiran or two in Interference especially, for which I often take McCabe and his dirty dogs.  The combination of denying charges and sometimes being able to get a Lure off makes them a great cheap body.  I've had games of interference where they just needed to stand in severe terrain all na-na-na-na-na-na with moose horns and tongue just scoring me points cause it would have taken a whole activation just to get to them.

[InvokeChaos]

Two question time!

1) So who is your favorite to throw hidden agenda on?

*off-topic* I like to throw it on any henchman that only runs recalled training for the shadow emissary (huggy comes to mind)

*on-topic* Kang is always a favorite as he likes to get in the thick. Yamaziko of course. I don't tend to put it on enforcers at all except for Yin, the Pengalan. If I have oiran and Yin in a list, she's carrying it.

I've thought about putting it on Toshiro, but haven't tried it yet. Samurai seem good... but only if I have a way to mitigate that damage coming in as they no longer have their other upgrade. I have thought about doing a brewmaster list that uses Samurai as a body for misdirect and an obey target. Might not be a bad option there, as the oiran would fit the general denial concept of the list.  Plus all the negative WP makes that lure real easy to get off as long as you have the suit.

2) What's your favorite combo with Oiran?

Mine hands down is Oiran, Emissary and Dawn Serpent. It's just for fun, but I love the idea of two dragons being hungry and the Oiran going to "fetch" their dinner. Plus there's a silly, jank combo in there that I like: Serpent drops fire on enemies, Emissary lowers burning enemies Df, which allows Oiran to walk in and hit them way easier, for the No Witnesses trigger (more fluff!). Because of the lowered Df, walking away is harder to do now. And the emissary can nom on it the following turn with his no  ranged attack while the Dawn Serpent sets up the next target

Like I said... jank. But I love it's fluffiness.

[Rurouni Benshin]

12 minutes ago, InvokeChaos said:

Two question time!

1) So who is your favorite to throw hidden agenda on?

*off-topic* I like to throw it on any henchman that only runs recalled training for the shadow emissary (huggy comes to mind)

*on-topic* Kang is always a favorite as he likes to get in the thick. Yamaziko of course. I don't tend to put it on enforcers at all except for Yin, the Pengalan. If I have oiran and Yin in a list, she's carrying it.

I've thought about putting it on Toshiro, but haven't tried it yet. Samurai seem good... but only if I have a way to mitigate that damage coming in as they no longer have their other upgrade. I have thought about doing a brewmaster list that uses Samurai as a body for misdirect and an obey target. Might not be a bad option there, as the oiran would fit the general denial concept of the list.  Plus all the negative WP makes that lure real easy to get off as long as you have the suit.

I usually put it on either Ototo or Fuhatsu.  If you're running McCabe, Ototo is a great Henchman to bring in general.  Putting "Hidden Agenda" on him and sending him into the thick of combat would be great for the Oiran.  Fuhatsu is a good choice with his long range and decent damage spread as well.  Best part about them is that they're both Ht 3, so you can see them over most models and terrain.  Remember you only need LOS to the model doing the damage for "Hidden Agenda" to work.  Huggy isn't a bad choice either, but I rarely find myself using Oiran with Lynch.  I take Beckoners instead.

Yamaziko isn't a great choice, IMO, because of her being relatively low Attack stat and Df.  More often than not with me, she's the one with "Smoke and Shadows" and possibly "Smoke Bombs".  Depending on the scheme pool, she's the one I sneak up to use "Master Tactician", or I'm running schemes with her.  As far as being a solo scheme runner goes, I find that she's pretty reliable. 

18 minutes ago, InvokeChaos said:

2) What's your favorite combo with Oiran?

Mine hands down is Oiran, Emissary and Dawn Serpent. It's just for fun, but I love the idea of two dragons being hungry and the Oiran going to "fetch" their dinner. Plus there's a silly, jank combo in there that I like: Serpent drops fire on enemies, Emissary lowers burning enemies Df, which allows Oiran to walk in and hit them way easier, for the No Witnesses trigger (more fluff!). Because of the lowered Df, walking away is harder to do now. And the emissary can nom on it the following turn with his no  ranged attack while the Dawn Serpent sets up the next target

Like I said... jank. But I love it's fluffiness.

Not really much of favorite combo, to be honest...  Because their "Lure" isn't reliable, I typically don't use them for that reason.  Unless "Occupy Their Turf" is on the table, and the Strategy is suitable for Misaki, I generally don't play them as much.  That being said, I love having a "fluff" intensive crew.  Very few things are as aesthetically appealing as Misaki leading a crew of her Last Blossoms to me. 

[Skitt_Happens]

54 minutes ago, InvokeChaos said:

1) So who is your favorite to throw hidden agenda on?

As Rurouni said, ht3 models are good, you also want someone that can always put damage out, so ranged attacks very useful. Fuhatsu being Ht3, 50mm base and 14"(?) range fantastic contender.

I also like Sidir for his Sh7 and Chiaki. I imagine people will raise their eyebrows at Chiaki, but consider: it doesn't matter how much damage you do, 1 is enough, late game Chiaki can be easily casting 8 on a (0) action; because it's a (0) attack, and combined with incorporeal, Chiaki has an effective threat range of 20" and even when doing other things you may as well throw out an attack; she is unlikely to be a priority target for your opponent; while I have taken Pull Of The Grave on several occasions, I very rarely use it - there's just so much other stuff I'd rather be doing with her.

[InvokeChaos]

I personally cannot STAND the Fuhatsu model, and it will likely be the only 10T model I will never own. Otherwise, from a rules perspective, totally agree with you both.

Love the Chiaki idea, may have to give that a go!

[Da Git]

4 hours ago, InvokeChaos said:

I personally cannot STAND the Fuhatsu model, and it will likely be the only 10T model I will never own. Otherwise, from a rules perspective, totally agree with you both.

Love the Chiaki idea, may have to give that a go!

For those not liking the Fuhatsu model, there is a super simple solution. Take the gigantic samurai model, glue it on a 50mm base, say 'Bob's your uncle' and you've got yourself a Fuhatsu! 

Bonus points if you add some extras like a back banner and a peasant 

[InvokeChaos]

I'm pretty certain you can't do that for tournament play, can you? I never have issues using proxies, but don't the rules from Wyrd say that if the model is released you have to use it? I could be misremembering.

[Ludvig]

6 hours ago, InvokeChaos said:

I'm pretty certain you can't do that for tournament play, can you? I never have issues using proxies, but don't the rules from Wyrd say that if the model is released you have to use it? I could be misremembering.

Those are the official rules. The tournaments in my area are very lenient with proxies as long as you keep it within reasonable limits.

[KuroTora]

10 hours ago, Da Git said:

For those not liking the Fuhatsu model, there is a super simple solution. Take the gigantic samurai model, glue it on a 50mm base, say 'Bob's your uncle' and you've got yourself a Fuhatsu! 

Bonus points if you add some extras like a back banner and a peasant 

this is pretty close to my Fuhatsu ... I'm still working on him since I used the gigantic Samurai for my Izamu conversion (with a back banner) too and I want Fuhatsu to look different - I like the idea with the peasant ... might try that   

(the Samurai box is a great source for converions btw - I got three boxes ... my Lone Swordsman got a helmet from the sprue and I recently converted the standing one with the antlers to be my Ototo ... he got Ototo's head, helmet and hands and he now shoulders his Tetsubo)

sorry for off-topic

 

 

p.s.: I do the conversions mostly for me (to tie my models together and a certain style, that I like), and I'm not the biggest tournament player, but until now I never had problems using my conversions (although tbh I own the original minis, so I can use them if anyone objects to my conversions).

[Eclipse]

1 hour ago, KuroTora said:

this is pretty close to my Fuhatsu ... I'm still working on him since I used the gigantic Samurai for my Izamu conversion (with a back banner) too and I want Fuhatsu to look different - I like the idea with the peasant ... might try that   

(the Samurai box is a great source for converions btw - I got three boxes ... my Lone Swordsman got a helmet from the sprue and I recently converted the standing one with the antlers to be my Ototo ... he got Ototo's head, helmet and hands and he now shoulders his Tetsubo)

sorry for off-topic

 

 

p.s.: I do the conversions mostly for me (to tie my models together and a certain style, that I like), and I'm not the biggest tournament player, but until now I never had problems using my conversions (although tbh I own the original minis, so I can use them if anyone objects to my conversions).

If I could like this post more than once, I would.
I have discovered that Wyrd models are excellent for conversions, and this is part of why I love Malifaux so much.

[InvokeChaos]

Yeah I've been debating for a while on a fuhatsu conversion... hmmm smells like a new thread start...

[ArcticPangolin]

I don't have the greatest model pool, but I've favoured Sidir for Hidden Agenda due to his range and Empty The Magazine. He's not Ht2 but at least he's 40mm. Plus you can sneak in a 4+  for a quick Lure on him to compensate for his middling Wk stat.

I LOVE Empty The Magazine.

[Rurouni Benshin]

As far as proxies go in my local meta, people are generally fine with it in casual play.  For tournaments, you'd have to pass it by the TO, who's generally pretty lenient with the representations so long as they're not obviously some other model.  (IE - Such as not using a Dawn Serpent to proxie for a Shadow Emissary).  Another local meta has specifically said that if the models have since been released by Wyrd, and are available for sale, no proxies for those models are allowed at all.  Older sculpts of models are perfectly fine, and Avatar models are all legal representations of Emissaries as well.